From jfgannon@cloud9.net Sun Mar 12 17:46:16 2000 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.09/8.9.3+UW99.09) with ESMTP id RAA56860 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:46:15 -0800 Received: from russian-caravan.cloud9.net (russian-caravan.cloud9.net [168.100.1.4]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW00.02/8.9.3+UW99.09) with ESMTP id RAA20672 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:46:15 -0800 Received: from cloud9.net (jfgannon.dialup.cloud9.net [168.100.203.180]) by russian-caravan.cloud9.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 724337640E for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:46:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38CC4855.DDF98D9D@cloud9.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:45:57 -0500 From: "J.F. Gannon" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: classics@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Query: hetairai & geishas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You raise a very good question. But can we really do the sort of study of hetairai that would be required to reach a 'scientifically valid' result, if that is the right way of putting it? That is not to say that the comparison is not helpful. In fact I thnk it is likely to be very helpful in illuminating an important area of ancient life. And really I am inclined to think you are on the right track. As to Socrates, however, I think he would have found an answer to the question you suggest, at least with a little help from one of his writers, Plato et al. J.F. Gannon David Lupher wrote: > My local Sunday paper reprints a Washington Post article about a > retired Kyoto geisha, Mineko Iwasaka, who served as a major source > for Arthur Golden's novel "Memoirs of a Geisha," which was on the > NYT bestseller list for 58 weeks. She objects that "the book is all > about sex. He wrote that book on the theme of women selling their > bodies. It was not that way at all." And later she is quoted as > saying, "In the field I was in, there was some sexual involvement, > but it was not the basis of our work." Meanwhile, Mr. Golden (whose > book I have not read) is quoted as saying that there are two myths > about the geishas: "One myth is that geishas are prostitutes. That > myth is wrong. The other myth is that geishas are not prostitutes. > That myth is wrong, too." > > All of this put me in mind of ch. 4 of James Davidson's "Courtesans > and Fishcakes" ("A Purchase on the Hetaera"). For example, on pp. > 111-2 Davidson contrasts hetairai with pornai thus: > Hetaeras, on the other hand, who are seduced by gifts, > must make full use of the possiblities of discretion > to avoid being seen as common prostitutes, while their > enemies use all the lanaguage of the market-place to bring > them back into line. Specifying is itself an issue in the > sexual economy. If ancient men and modern scholars find it > difficult to get a purchase on the hetaera this is not simply > because the world of women is complicated. The hetaera goes > to great lengths to avoid having herself and her relationships > with men made explicit. Otherwise she would not be a hetaera. > > (By the way, I gather that his main evidence for such reticence on the > part of a hetaera is the scene in Xenophon's "Memorabilia" in which > Socrates visits the wealthy hetaera Theodote and "Socratically" quizzes > her on her mysterious source of income. "Are you a landowner?" etc. > Her coy reply is that her source of income is her "friends." It occurs > to me that Theodote could have displayed an hetaira's characteristic > wit and asked Socrates about *his* main source of income. Would he > not have been constrained to give the same answer?) > > Now, I have long been in the habit of casually comparing the ancient Greek > hetaira with the modern Japanese geisha, and a juxtaposition of this news > article with Davidson's discussion seems to confirm that somewhat. But > what I want to ask of those who know more about geishas (or, for that > matter, hetairai) than I do is: how valid is the comparison? What are > some of the main points of similarity? What are the main differences? > Are the differences sufficiently fundamental to discourage my further > use of the analogy? (Subquestions: Are or were geishas paid by the > hour or by the service? Are/were they paid a fixed fee, or is/was a major > portion of their income something more fluid, more like the "gifts" Theodote > got from her "friends." That is, where does the relationship between > a geisha and her clients fall in the spectrum between commododity exchange > and gift exchange?) > > David Lupher > Classics Dept. > Univ. of Puget Sound .