From PeselyG@apsu.edu Thu Nov  1 10:48:32 2001
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From: "Pesely, George" <PeselyG@apsu.edu>
To: "'classics@u.washington.edu'" <classics@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: casualty aversion
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 12:42:20 -0600 
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Closer to our time and in Prof. Cramer's own state, Colonel John M.
Chivington made a speech in Denver advocating killing and scalping
all Indians, even infants, declaring "Nits make lice!"  

Not long afterwards Chivington carried out a massacre of Cheyenne and 
Arapaho Indians at Sand Creek, Colorado, on November 29, 1864, including 
many women and children.  The death toll was at least 133 Indians and
perhaps several hundreds. There is still a town named for Chivington
on the map of Colorado.  Chivington was a Methodist minister but not,
as far as I know, a bishop.    

George Pesely
Austin Peay State University


-----Original Message-----
From: Owen Cramer [mailto:OCramer@ColoradoCollege.edu]
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 10:11 AM
To: 'classics@u.washington.edu'
Subject: RE: casualty aversion

On non-combatant immunity, Agamemnon's speech to Menelaos at Il. 6.55ff.:
"not even the kouros in his mother's womb should escape" etc.: clearly this
is a horrific remark, and suggests that Homer knows a higher standard, but
the actual ideal it proclaims, similar the Bp. of Beziers' "Kill them all"
without the "God will know his own", seems to be one "normal" Greeks would
have accepted. 
Owen Cramer
.