From jhawke@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Fri Apr 19 07:06:12 2002 Received: from mailscan1.cac.washington.edu (mailscan1.cac.washington.edu [140.142.32.16]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.12.1+UW01.12/8.12.1+UW02.01) with SMTP id g3JE67DN041242 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:06:07 -0700 Received: FROM mxu2.u.washington.edu BY mailscan1.cac.washington.edu ; Fri Apr 19 07:06:07 2002 -0700 Received: from day.its.uiowa.edu (day.its.uiowa.edu [128.255.56.107]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.12.1+UW01.12/8.12.1+UW02.01) with ESMTP id g3JE66ZB027061 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:06:06 -0700 Received: from itsnt5.its.uiowa.edu (itsnt5.its.uiowa.edu [128.255.40.126]) by day.its.uiowa.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6/ns-mx-1.14) with ESMTP id g3JE5jo15032; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:05:45 -0500 X-WebMail-UserID: jhawke Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:05:45 -0500 Sender: jhawke From: jhawke To: "Ginny Lindzey" , X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002843 Subject: RE: Roman parallels (was Re: Filicide?) Message-ID: <3CC08587@itsnt5.its.uiowa.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.62 >===== Original Message From "Ginny Lindzey" ===== >> 2) Did the Roman state ever "feel humiliated"? I suspect >> not. Many individual Roman elites may have gotten mad or >> scared at the same time and for the same reasons, and >> individual Roman envoys humiliated, but certainly not the >> entire state. > >No? What about the Teutoberg Forest episode? If not humiliated, >weren't they at least very sensitive on the subject and somewhat >superstitious about the whole area afterwards? > >ginnyL Indeed, one might also note the chagrin (getting rather late here) over the disaster at Adrianople, which was apparently such a humiliation that there is virtually no mention of it at the court of Theodosius a few years later -- hardly a sign that it wasn't important, but rather that it was every bit as disastrous and embarrassing as Ammianus leads the reader to believe. Jason Hawke Jason Hawke Visiting Assistant Professor Department of Classics University of Iowa 319-335-2324 .