From liveoak@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu Wed Jan 15 15:19:23 1997 Received: from mx3.u.washington.edu by lists.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW96.08/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA42324; Wed, 15 Jan 97 15:19:21 -0800 Received: from knights.cc.ucf.edu (knights.cc.ucf.edu [132.170.246.40]) by mx3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW96.12/8.8.4+UW96.12) with SMTP id PAA22602 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 15:19:18 -0800 Received: from Pegasus.cc.ucf.edu(really [132.170.240.30]) by knights.cc.ucf.edu via sendmail with smtp (ident liveoak using rfc1413) id for ; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:12:50 -0500 (EST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #14 built 1996-Oct-22) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:15:38 -0500 (EST) From: Ronnie Hawkins X-Sender: liveoak@pegasus To: "C. Cam Muir" Cc: consbio@u.washington.edu, Primate Talk Subject: Re: anthropogenic vs evolutionary extinction In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cam-- Point well taken--one of the reasons I think we should be learning to "see ourselves as primates" is to help us reconnect with the rest of the natural continuum. But I think we are (probably) the only form of nature on this planet that can deliberate as conscious moral agents and change our behavior if we determine it to be "wrong"--so I think it's also important to try to delineate the effects our species is having on all its other inhabitants, and take responsibility for them. Thanks for your comment. Ronnie On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, C. Cam Muir wrote: > Hi Ronnie, > > I'm not sure that the question you ask (are there spp which have recently > gone > extinct or are currently endangered in the absence of human influence) can > actually be answered. Extinction is a phenomenon which is brought on by > some combination of environmental influences (ie a spp's relative fitness > in a given environment and it's abiltity to cope with changes to that > environment). Since each individual is a > part of the environment for all others on some level, I think it would not > be possible to answer the question "What would the global environment be > like in the absence of human influence?". This is not to say that all > extinctions are the "fault" of human existance simply that we are an > undeniable part of the environment for all living things. I think a major > part of the "problem" is that humans tend to think of themselves as > seperate from (and in control of) "nature". We are not able to act in a > way which is ecologically innert and so we must find a way in which we are > able minimize unnecessary consumption or make more of an effort to consume > in a way which is globally sustainable. > > My two bits. > > Take care. > > > cam... > > > C. Cam Muir > Institute of Molecular Biology > and Biochemistry Morality aught not be treated like a > Simon Fraser University taxi; > Burnaby, B.C. V5A 1S6 dismissing it once you have arrived > Canada at your destination. > (604) 291-4593 > fax: (604) 291-5583 > cmuir@haldane.mbb.sfu.ca .