From jfgannon@cloud9.net Thu Jun 21 18:41:12 2001 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.11.2+UW01.01/8.11.2+UW01.04) with ESMTP id f5M1fB0108554 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 18:41:11 -0700 Received: from russian-caravan.cloud9.net (russian-caravan.cloud9.net [168.100.1.4]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.11.2+UW01.01/8.11.2+UW01.04) with ESMTP id f5M1fAs10664 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 18:41:10 -0700 Received: from jfgannon (203-180.dialup.cloud9.net [168.100.203.180]) by russian-caravan.cloud9.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5AD6B299C5 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006201c0fabc$e26f1420$b4cb64a8@jfgannon> From: "J.F. Gannon" To: References: <200106212335.f5LNZtQ18001@ccat.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: *Wannnnhhhh* Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:44:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Someone made a distinction between "natura naturans" and "natura naturata", as I dimly recall, and I think it may have been Joannes Scotus Erigena. It would not be Ecclesiastical Latin so much as philosopher's Latin. I would imagine that what the simple call the creator is in this system natura naturans and what the same call creation is natura naturata, to put it crudely. J.F. Gannon ----- Original Message ----- From: "James J. O'Donnell" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 7:35 PM Subject: Re: *Wannnnhhhh* > Looks like ecclesiastical Latin of the most obsessive sort: the "reason > of nature made natural". I'd need more context, but (1) you are correct > to be upset and (2) it happens all the time in that kind of Latin. Better > you should be reading Lucan, actually. > > Jim O'Donnell > Classics, U. of Penn > jod@ccat.sas.upenn.edu > > > AJROSE93@aol.com wrote: > > > > Care Circulus: > > > > I *promised* I would *never* bother the list with translation stuff I can and > > should ultimately work out for myself, and until now, I was doing pretty > > well...but I am stumped by this here instance of marginalia: > > > > "Ratio Naturae Naturatae" > > > > It's not for a class or something -- just a (modern, ca. 1906) text I'm > > trying to read, for myself. I expect once my grammar is better (I am brand > > new at this) it'll be a snap, but the apparent double "natura" in unexpected > > relation, and the ambiguity of "ratio," has me muttering "genitive?, gerund?, > > oh please shoot me" and the like...particularly since I don't think the > > Romans used "Nature" (quasi-personified, e.g. "Mother Nature"), anything like > > we do...? > > > > I'm certain it's a stupid question, and I promise not to make this a habit. > > If it's annoying, just please delete it without comment, but if someone is > > willing to enlighten this unworthy one, *boy*, would it be appreciated. :/ > > > > Best wishes regardless -- AJ > > > > P.S. This was sent on a new mail program. Is this the dreaded "HTML mail" > > that people hate? (hence, should I send list messages on my old program, in > > future?) > > > > --part1_35.16d29ee1.2863de55_boundary > > Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > Care Circulus: > >
> >
I *promised* I would *never* bother the list with translation stuff I can and > >
should ultimately work out for myself, and until now, I was doing pretty > >
well...but I am stumped by this here instance of marginalia: > >
> >
"Ratio Naturae Naturatae" > >
> >
It's not for a class or something -- just a (modern, ca. 1906) text I'm > >
trying to read, for myself. I expect once my grammar is better (I am brand > >
new at this) it'll be a snap, but the apparent double "natura" in unexpected > >
relation, and the ambiguity of "ratio," has me muttering "genitive?, gerund?, > >
oh please shoot me" and the like...particularly since I don't think the > >
Romans used "Nature" (quasi-personified, e.g. "Mother Nature"), anything like > >
we do...? > >
> >
I'm certain it's a stupid question, and I promise not to make this a habit. > >
If it's annoying, just please delete it without comment, but if someone is > >
willing to enlighten this unworthy one, *boy*, would it be appreciated.  :/ > >
> >
Best wishes regardless -- AJ > >
> >
P.S. This was sent on a new mail program. Is this the dreaded "HTML mail" > >
that people hate? (hence, should I send list messages on my old program, in > >
future?) > > > > --part1_35.16d29ee1.2863de55_boundary-- > > > .