From dlupher@ups.edu Wed Mar 8 10:43:53 2000 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.09/8.9.3+UW99.09) with ESMTP id KAA20736 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:43:52 -0800 Received: from mail.ups.edu (mail.ups.edu [192.124.98.111]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW00.02/8.9.3+UW99.09) with ESMTP id KAA29907 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:43:52 -0800 Received: from [10.80.1.53] (howarthdhcp53.ups.edu [10.80.1.53]) by mail.ups.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA28497 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:43:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200003080653.PAA08022@ham.t.u-shizuoka-ken.ac.jp> References: <200003070816.RAA04882@ham.t.u-shizuoka-ken.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:45:34 -0800 To: classics@u.washington.edu From: David Lupher Subject: Re: beautiful language Steve Willett asks me, re. Mark Alexander Boyd's sonnet: >You can't be serious? I never joke. I realize that e-mail lists are like airport security checkpoints: jokes will be misunderstood, so had better be eschewed. > Pound's opinion is worthless, and Winters little better. Both gents did nod occasionally, and I wouldn't want to be labeled a Poundian or a Wintersian, but re. the much maligned latter, let me ask if anyone can think of another critic who did a better job of calling attention to neglected poets. Not all of them deserved the high praise Winters bestowed on them, but I, for one, am grateful that he drew my attention to the likes of Fulke Greville and George Gascoigne. People tend to chuckle over Winters' notion that the two greatest American poets of the 19th century were Emily Dickinson and Frederick Goddard Tuckerman (Frederick Goddard WHO???). There's only one problem with such chuckles: Winters happened to be correct. [Optional anecdote: There was a young specialist in 19C American literature who taught here for a while, and one day I asked her her opinion of Tuckerman. She replied that she'd never heard of him. So I said that there was an edition of his complete poems edited by the Kiowa writer N. Scott Momaday, and she replied, "Momaday? Isn't that a novel by Gloria Naylor?"] I want to assure Steve that I, too, admire Sidney's sonnet "With how sad steps, O moon,...," but for sheer musicality (peace to the shade of Gombrowicz) nothing can beat his wonderful double sestina "Ye goatherd gods that love the grassy mountains" from near the end of Book 1 of "Arcadia" (pp. 96-7 of the 1590 edition). >You need to read the whole _Diary_ in context. Fine. Sure. Just let me get through this stack of midterms first, please. > There isn't a character in _Ulysses_ I care about the >way I care about, say, Milly Threale. Or even Dr. Behrens in >another novel. If you care about Milly Theale, please don't conflate her with Hester Thrale (or should I say Hester Lynch Thrale Piozzi?). [Please imagine smiley-face here!] I, too, care about Milly, but I'll take Molly any old day (though I'd probably have to stand in line behind Mulvey, Penrose, Bartell d'Arcy, Professor Goodwin, Julius Mastiansky, et al., not to mention Hugh B. "Blazes" Boylan). But, again, I do like Milly. And late at night these days I am enjoying the rather scary Christina Light, back in the days before she became the Princess Casamassima. As for Doc Behrens, I have to confess that I don't find him quite as amusing as "Dr." Malachi Mulligan ("two dactyls...it has a Hellenic ring, hasn't it?"). But I will admit that I find Behrens' bluff, slangy heartiness a relief after overdoses of Settembrini and Naphtha. On the whole, though, I rather prefer his granddaughter Hildegard--- a great Elektra [please note quasi-classical content]. So I guess I'm more promiscuous in my tastes than you are, for I manage to enjoy James, Mann, *and* Joyce. And I hope to stay spineless for a while longer. One way I intend to do so is to postpone as long as possible following your advice to read Gombrowicz and Beckett on Dante. There may come a day when I will be happy to scratch Dante off my list, but thank God it won't be today or tomorrow. David Lupher Classics Dept. Univ. of Puget Sound .