From lockyert@mweb.co.za Sun Jul 22 09:06:19 2001 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.11.2+UW01.01/8.11.2+UW01.04) with ESMTP id f6MG6G020646 for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 09:06:17 -0700 Received: from earthquake.mweb.co.za (earthquake.mweb.co.za [196.2.53.139]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.11.2+UW01.01/8.11.2+UW01.04) with ESMTP id f6MG6Bs27471 for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 09:06:13 -0700 Received: from al40 ([196.30.236.233]) by earthquake.mweb.co.za (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with SMTP id <0GGV00G9ZTYIVK@earthquake.mweb.co.za> for classics@u.washington.edu; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 18:04:00 +0200 (SAT) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 18:00:01 +0200 From: Terrence Lockyer Subject: Battering To: Classics List Message-id: <006401c112c7$c612d780$e9ec1ec4@al40> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Priority: 3 On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Diana Wright enquired about the conflation in art of Neoptolemos' killing of Priamos, and than of Astyanax, son of Hektor. There is a discussion of this (in literature and in art) in - Timothy Gantz, Early Greek Myth: A Guide to Literary and Artistic Sources. Volume 2 (Baltimore and London : The Johns Hopkins University Press 1996), pp. 650-2, 654-7 One should also have a look at the entries for the relevant characters in LIMC. The introductions will generally discuss literary sources, where they exist. Another (brief) reference is - Thomas H. Carpenter, Art and Myth in Ancient Greece (London : Thames and Hudson 1991) pp. 20, 209 Aside from the scenes mentioned by DW, Carpenter also notes possible parallels between image of Neoptolemos' killing of Astyanax, and the killing of Troilos by Neoptolemos' father, Akhilleus. James M. Pfundstein writes : I don't think the child in question need be : Astyanax, though. It needn't always be, but Gantz notes that the child is identified as Astyanax on Athens Akropolis Museum 212. On p. 657, he explicitly leaves open the question of a possible literary source. He also mentions the death of Polites, but notes the absence of explicit early sources for it. I should imagine that the conflation arises from the fact that these two acts are seen to be characteristic of Neoptolemos in some way. They, along with the rape of Kassandra by Aias, are, I think, ones that marked those who perpetrated them as unusually brutal in the sack. The assaults upon Kassandra and Priamos, of course, also offend powerful gods, for the former sought refuge at the altar of Athene, the latter at that of Zeus. Pindar (Paian 6.102-20) says that Apollon himself was enraged at the killing of Priamos as he sought refuge at an altar, and that, because of it, the god denied Neoptolemos a return and had him killed in a quarrel at Delphi. This version is given again at Nemean 7.34-49, but there Pindar seems to lessen the element of divine condemnation, perhaps so as not to offend (as Nem. 7.102-5 may suggest). As JMP's citation shows, the story in Pindar's Paian had a classical Nachleben in Pausanias at least. Terrence Lockyer Johannesburg, South Africa .