From jfgannon@cloud9.net Wed Oct 18 13:17:34 2000 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW00.05/8.9.3+UW99.09) with ESMTP id NAA177230 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:17:32 -0700 Received: from russian-caravan.cloud9.net (russian-caravan.cloud9.net [168.100.1.4]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW00.02/8.9.3+UW99.09) with ESMTP id NAA06287 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:17:31 -0700 Received: from cloud9.net (jfgannon.dialup.cloud9.net [168.100.203.180]) by russian-caravan.cloud9.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80BDD60EE2 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <39EE0553.7896109A@cloud9.net> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:17:23 -0400 From: "J.F. Gannon" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: classics@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Cartesian and Socratic denial of knowledge References: <41B869C1700CD211B97700805FCB2C2C09BEC7@host-002.nbc.netcom.ca> <000201c03898$fd4adc20$7a033ad8@igs.net> <39EDFB69.D0A0EAC0@cloud9.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------C6B875DED49879EDEA6357FB" --------------C6B875DED49879EDEA6357FB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I did some further looking and I find three references to Socrates in Descartes' letters. In the translation by Cottingham et al. they are on pp. 222, 297 and 367 of Vol. 3. In the first he shows a knowledge of the Meno in the Letter to Voetius. In the other two, both addressed to Princess Elizabeth, he refers to the Apology and the Phaedo. In the former (Letter to Elizabeth October or November 1646) he says: "Plato reports that Socrates would even stay at home whenever his conscience advised him not to go out." I assume this is a reference to the Apology. He has read it but not remembered it quite accurately. J.F. Gannon "J.F. Gannon" wrote: > I can't find any place where Descartes uses the words "dubito ergo > sum" but that might be another way of putting his first principle, > usually stated "je pense donc je suis" or "cogito ergo sum". In any > case it is far from being the denial of any knowledge, but rather for > D. the first secure principle of all knowledge! Antoine Arnauld > suggested that St. Augustine had thought along the same lines. In one > of his formulations Augustine put it "si fallor, sum". Descartes > never indicates that he derived any idea from anyone in the history of > philosophy, but he was probably influenced by Augustine and of course > by Thomas Aquinas and the Jesuit tradition of Aristotelian philosophy > that he studied in school. Socrates ironic notion that he is wiser > than others because he knows that he knows nothing--really nothing of > importance--is rather remote from Descartes' idea and certrainly does > not serve the same purpose. I know of no evidence that Descartes ever > read the Apology. Jesuit education tended to concentrate more on a > Latin curriculum. > > J. F. Gannon > > JohnZ wrote: > >> In one of our class discussion on Socrates', a >> francophone student wanted to know if the ultimate "denial >> of any knowledge " ( dubito, ergo sum) by the French >> philosopher had its direct inspiration in the Socratic " I >> know one thing that know nothing". The way he put it " >> ligne directe ou pens`ee parall`ele ?". >> Any ideas? Any bibliography on that topic? thanks. >> --------------C6B875DED49879EDEA6357FB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I did some further looking and I find three references to Socrates in Descartes' letters. In the translation by Cottingham et al. they are on pp. 222, 297 and 367 of Vol. 3. In the first he shows a knowledge of the Meno in the Letter to Voetius. In the other two, both addressed to Princess Elizabeth, he refers to the Apology and the Phaedo. In the former (Letter to Elizabeth October or November 1646) he says: "Plato reports that Socrates would even stay at home whenever his conscience advised him not to go out." I assume this is a reference to the Apology. He has read it but not remembered it quite accurately.

J.F. Gannon

"J.F. Gannon" wrote:

I can't find any place where Descartes uses the words "dubito ergo sum" but that might be another way of putting his first principle, usually stated "je pense donc je suis" or "cogito ergo sum". In any case it is far from being the denial of any knowledge, but rather for D. the first secure principle of all knowledge! Antoine Arnauld suggested that St. Augustine had thought along the same lines. In one of his formulations Augustine put it "si fallor, sum". Descartes never indicates that he derived any idea from anyone in the history of philosophy, but he was probably influenced by Augustine and of course by Thomas Aquinas and the Jesuit tradition of Aristotelian philosophy that he studied in school. Socrates ironic notion that he is wiser than others because he knows that he knows nothing--really nothing of importance--is rather remote from Descartes' idea and certrainly does not serve the same purpose. I know of no evidence that Descartes ever read the Apology. Jesuit education tended to concentrate more on a Latin curriculum.
J. F. Gannon
JohnZ wrote:

In one of our class discussion on Socrates', a francophone student wanted to know if the ultimate "denial of any knowledge " ( dubito, ergo sum) by the French philosopher had its direct inspiration in the Socratic " I know one thing that know nothing". The way he put it " ligne directe ou pens`ee parall`ele ?".

Any ideas? Any bibliography on that topic? thanks.

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