From djwhite@acorn.net Mon Nov 1 14:49:43 1999 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.09/8.9.3+UW99.09) with ESMTP id OAA19316 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:49:41 -0800 Received: from acorn.net (rover.ascpl.lib.oh.us [199.218.0.2]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.09/8.9.3+UW99.08) with ESMTP id OAA03825 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:49:40 -0800 Received: (from djwhite@localhost) by acorn.net (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id RAA04285 for classics@u.washington.edu; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 17:49:38 -0500 (EST) From: "David J. White" Message-Id: <199911012249.RAA04285@acorn.net> Subject: Re: A "Balanced" View To: classics@u.washington.edu Date: Mon, 1 Nov 99 17:49:36 EST In-Reply-To: <381DFE5D.38F3@loyno.edu>; from "rowland" at Nov 1, 99 2:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3.1 PL11] Also, from various accounts I've read, Moctezuma didn't handle the situation at all well for his people's best interests: he failed to realize the danger and organize resistance until it was too late to be effective. A different leader might have made a great deal of difference for the Aztecs -- at least in the short run. Eventually, of course, as Prof. Rowland reminds us, the very fact of contact alone would have decimated the native population with European diseases, regardless of whatever happened to Cortes himself and his men. If Cortes hadn't conquered the Aztecs, the next group of Spaniards coming down the pike (and there certainly would have been a next group, fairly soon) would have found them too weak to resist much at all. David White Univ. of Akron P.S. Thomas Sowell, in one of his books about culture and history (I think it's *Conquest and Culture*, but I'm not sure) makes the point that what worked in the Europeans' favor in the Americas worked against them in Africa: i.e., disease immunity. The Europeans easily succumbed to things like yellow fever and malaria, which for a long time severely hampered their ability to explore tropical Africa. The introduction of quinine finally provided some help, at least for malaria. P.P.S. (Sorry I keep adding to this.) This reminds me of Ray Bradbury's *Martian Chronicles*, in which the first humans to land on Mars are killed by the native Martians. However, the contact exposed them to terrestrial diseases, and a later expedition from Earth finds the Martians all dead -- from chicken pox. If nothing else, it shows Bradbury has a sense of history. > > Not to mention immunities to European diseases. R. Rowland > > Bruce Thornton wrote: > > > > It always seems to be a shock to students to realize that > > >Cortes would have been a heartless corpse bouncing down the steps of > > >the Great Temple of Tenochtitlan if he had not had the good luck to > > >encounter people like the Tlaxcalans who had superb reasons for wanting > > >to destroy the Aztec Empire. > > > > I hope you don't reduce the success of the Spaniards merely to the > > fortuitious presence of the disaffected Tlaxcalans. Don't you think that > > the uniquely Western intellectual dynamism-- the freedom to rely on > > individual initiative, to adapt quickly to rapidly changing circumstances, > > to improvise new solutions and tactics unforeseen in rigid, deterministic > > cosmologies, etc etc-- had a tad bit to do with it? > > > > Bruce S Thornton > > 209-278-7037 (voice mail) > > 209-278-7878 (FAX) > -- DAVID J. WHITE E-mail: djwhite@acorn.net Department of Classics djwhite@eudoramail.com The University of Akron Akron, Ohio 44325-1910 Web: www.geocities.com/athens/agora/7364 Office Phone: 330-972-7875 http://GoZips.uakron.edu/~djwhite Web: www.uakron.edu/classics "Sed fugit interea, fugit irreparabile tempus." Vergil, *Georgics* III.284. .