From socrates@greekphilosophy.com Wed Aug 1 08:17:11 2001 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.11.2+UW01.01/8.11.2+UW01.04) with ESMTP id f71FH7044662 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:17:07 -0700 Received: from omta02.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.35]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.11.2+UW01.01/8.11.2+UW01.04) with ESMTP id f71FH7X13190 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:17:07 -0700 Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (reports [216.200.145.62]) by omta02.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B7721C4D03 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 2B42D3ECC; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:17:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Socrates To: classics@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Jews in Classical Greek Sources Reply-To: socrates@greekphilosophy.com X-Originating-Ip: [130.63.75.20] Message-Id: <20010801151707.2B42D3ECC@sitemail.everyone.net> Status: O X-Status: --- "Bob Cowan" > wrote: >I don't know about cast-iron references to Ioudaioi in pre-Hellenistic >Greece, but there's always the association with the Solymoi who battle >Bellerophon in the Iliad. This association - probably based on an >etymological link between Solymoi and Hierosolyma/Jerusalem - was >likely made in Hellenistic times, but really takes off under the >Flavians after the sack of Jerusalem. Bob, I am unable to find any substantiation for such an etymological surmise... I think it's just another fanciful attempt at historical revisionism to establish a wholly fabricated association between the Jews and earlier history, as you mention below. Although the word "Jerusalem" is obviously a Greek word (as you point out), there is no evidence for any kind of ancient (pre-Roman) association/contact between Jews and Greeks, beyond what is available in Josephus. Also, I am wondering if perhaps the word "Ierosolyma" is derived from "ierosylos"? It's interesting to note that there is no etymological listing/ or origin for the word "Jerusalem" in the Oxford English Dictionary. > >Sources include Josephus Jewish Antiquities 7.3.2.67 and Tacitus >Histories 5 (though this is only one of six possible origins the latter >offers). Josephus Against Apion 1.22.173 also preserves part >of a catalogue of Xerxes' forces in another pre-H Greek poem, >Choerilus of Samos' epic on the Persian Wars, mentioning the Solymoi >whom Josephus again identifies as the Jews. It's the classic strategy of >associating one's people with a recognisable/glorious ancestry >(though interestingly Hellenising as opposed to scripture-based), just >as somewhere in one of the Maccabees (I forget where) there is a claim >of common descent for Jews and Spartans, but that's another story... Another story indeed! This has become quite an "interesting" (to say the least) thread... Sincerely, Sotiris Sotiropoulos == It's all Greek Philosophy to me! _____________________________________________________________ Know Thyself! Who are you@greekphilosophy.com? Click on the link for your own email address at: http://www.greekphilosophy.com .