From IKoKo312@aol.com Tue Mar 23 01:10:51 1999 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.01) with ESMTP id BAA49680 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 01:10:50 -0800 From: IKoKo312@aol.com Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.01) with ESMTP id BAA31072; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 01:10:46 -0800 Received: from IKoKo312@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id oDRFa00355; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 04:09:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 04:09:58 EST To: Spice14375@aol.com, FoRevR247@aol.com, MiMi0113@aol.com, PPP4Ever@aol.com, BaYbECaiKs@aol.com, lil1004hk@juno.com, yeziyun@sas.upenn.edu, Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Professing to be Wise................... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 hey u guys....this is pretty long..but its good...... alice... :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Proffesing to be wise, they became fools............" >> "LET ME EXPLAIN THE problem science has with Jesus Christ." The >atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then >>asks one of his new students to stand. "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?" >> >> "Yes, sir." >> >> "So you believe in God?" >> >> "Absolutely." >> >> "Is God good?" >> >> "Sure! God's good." >> >> "Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?" >> >> "Yes." >> >> "Are you good or evil?" >> >> "The Bible says I'm evil." >> >> The professor grins knowingly. "Ahh! THE BIBLE!" He considers for a >moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over >> here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help them? "Would >you try?" >> >> "Yes sir, I would." >> >> "So you're good...!" >> >> "I wouldn't say that." >> >> "Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you >could... in fact most of us would if we could... God doesn't. >> >> [No answer.] >> >> "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer >> >> even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? >> >> Hmmm? Can you answer that one?" >> >> [No answer] >> >> The elderly man is sympathetic. "No, you can't, can you?" He takes a >sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. In >philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones. "Let's start again, young >fella." >> >> "Is God good?" >> >> "Er... Yes." >> >> "Is Satan good?" >> >> "No." >> >> "Where does Satan come from?" The student falters. >> >> "From... God..." >> >> "That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?" The elderly man runs his >bony fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking, student >audience. "I think we're going to have a lot of fun this semester, ladies >and gentlemen." He turns back to the Christian. >> >> "Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?" >> >> "Yes, sir." >> >> "Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make everything?" >> >> "Yes." >> >> "Who created evil? >> >> [No answer] >> >> "Is there sickness in this world? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness. All >> >> the terrible things - do they exist in this world? " >> >> The student squirms on his feet. "Yes." >> >> "Who created them? " >> >> [No answer] >> >> The professor suddenly shouts at his student. "WHO CREATED THEM? TELL >ME, PLEASE!"The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into >>the Christian's face. In a still small voice: "God created all evil,didn't >He, son?" >> >> [No answer] >> >> The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails. >> >> Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom >like an aging panther. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues, >"How is it that this God is good if He created all evil throughout all >time?" The professor swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness of >the world. "All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture, >all the death and >>ugliness and all the suffering created by this good God is all over the world, >>isn't it, young man?" >> >> [No answer] >> > "Don't you see it all over the place? Huh?" >> >> Pause. >> >> "Don't you?" The professor leans into the student's face again and >whispers, "Is God good?" >> >> [No answer] >> >> "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?" >> >> The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor. I do." >> >> The old man shakes his head sadly. "Science says you have five senses >you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you? " >> >> "No, sir. I've never seen Him." >> >> "Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?" >> >> "No, sir. I have not." >> >> "Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your >Jesus... in fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?" >> >> [No answer] >> >> "Answer me, please." >> >> "No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't." >> >> "You're AFRAID... you haven't?" >> >> "No, sir." >> > "Yet you still believe in him?" >> > "...yes..." >> >> "That takes FAITH!" The professor smiles sagely at the underling. >"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable >>protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, >son? Where is your God now?" >> >> [The student doesn't answer] >> >> "Sit down, please." >> >> The Christian sits...Defeated. >> >> Another Christian raises his hand. "Professor, may I address the class?" >> >> The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, another Christian in the >vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the >> gathering." >> >> The Christian looks around the room. "Some interesting points you are >making, sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing >>as heat?" >> >> "Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat." >> >> "Is there such a thing as cold?" >> >> "Yes, son, there's cold too." >> >> "No, sir, there isn't." >> >> The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very cold. >> >> The second Christian continues. "You can have lots of heat, even more >heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat >>but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit 458 degrees below >zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. >>There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder >than 458 - You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the >>absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal >units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just >the absence of it." >> >> Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom. >> >> "Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?" >> > "That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness? What >are you getting at...?" >> >> "So you say there is such a thing as darkness?" >> >> "Yes..." >> >> "You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the absence >of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, >> flashing light but if you have no light constantly you have nothing >> >> and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to >>define the word. In reality, Darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able >to make darkness darker and give me a jar of it. Can you...give me a jar of >darker darkness, professor?" >> >> Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before >him. This will indeed be a good semester. "Would you mind telling >>us what your point is, young man?" >> >> "Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to >start with and so your conclusion must be in error...." >> >> The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare you...!"" >> >> "Sir, may I explain what I mean?" >> > The class is all ears. >> > "Explain... oh, explain..." The professor makes an admirable effort >to regain control. Suddenly he is affability itself. He waves his hand to >silence the class, for the student to continue. >> > "You are working on the premise of duality," the Christian explains. >> "That for example there is life and then there's death; a good God and >a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, > something we can measure. Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. >It uses electricity and magnetism but has never seen, much less >> fully understood them. To view death as the opposite of life is to >be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive >>thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the absence of it." >> >The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor who >has been reading it. "Here is one of the most >>disgusting tabloids this country hosts, professor. Is there such a thing as >immorality?" >> > "Of course there is, now look..." >> > "Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality. >> >Is there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is the absence of justice. >Is there such a thing as evil?" The Christian pauses. >"Isn't evil the absence of good?" >> > The professor's face has turned an alarming color. He is so angry he is >temporarily speechless. >> >The Christian continues. "If there is evil in the world, professor, and we >all agree there is, then God, if he exists, must be >>accomplishing a work through the agency of evil. What is that work, God is >accomplishing? The Bible tells us it is to see if each one of us >will, of our own free will, choose good over evil." >> > The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't vie this >matter as having anything to do with any choice; as a realist, I >> absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any othertheological >factor as being part of the world equation because God >> is not observable." >> > "I would have thought that the absence of God's moral code in this >world is probably one of the most observable phenomena going," the >> Christian replies. >> >> "Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week! Tell me, >professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a >> monkey?" >> > "If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, >yes, of course I do." >> > "Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?" >> > The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his student a >silent, stony stare. >> > "Professor. Since no-one has ever observed the process of evolution >> >> at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going >endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a >>scientist, but a priest?" >> > "I'll overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical >discussion. Now, have you quite finished?" the professor hisses. >> > "So you don't accept God's moral code to do what is righteous?" >> > "I believe in what is - that's science!" >> > "Ahh! SCIENCE!" the student's face splits into a grin. "Sir, you rightly >state that science is the study of observed phenomena. >>Science too is a premise which is flawed..." >> >"SCIENCE IS FLAWED..?" the professor splutters. >> > The class is in uproar. >> > The Christian remains standing until the commotion has subsided. "To >continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, >>may I give you an example of what I mean?" The professor wisely keeps silent. >> > The Christian looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has >ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out in laughter. >> > The Christian points towards his elderly, crumbling tutor. "Is there anyone >here who has ever heard the professor's brain... felt the > professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain?" No one appears >to have done so. The Christian shakes his head sadly. "It appears no-one >here has had any sensory perception of the professor's brain whatsoever. >Well, according to the rules of empirical, >>stable, demonstrable protocol, science, I DECLARE that the professor has no >brain." >> > The class is in chaos. >> > The Christian sits... Because that is what a chair is for. .