From anthonycorlando@hotmail.com Mon Dec 20 07:53:57 1999 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.09/8.9.3+UW99.09) with ESMTP id HAA70360 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 07:53:55 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (law-f6.hotmail.com [209.185.131.69]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.09/8.9.3+UW99.08) with SMTP id HAA09107 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 07:53:54 -0800 Received: (qmail 85558 invoked by uid 0); 20 Dec 1999 15:53:51 -0000 Message-ID: <19991220155351.85557.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.196.24.108 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 07:53:51 PST X-Originating-IP: [216.196.24.108] From: "tony O" To: bgs@teleport.com, Lane@lanepoor.com, ebass@u.washington.edu, bass@magpie.com Cc: saveyourears@sensaphonics.co, ultimate@ultimateears.com, aguilar@interport.net, fodera@interport.com Subject: Designing OnBoard Headphones Amp (Long) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 15:53:51 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed From: David King Fri, 17 Dec 1999: > >hoping we could break into the Aguilar circuit and hook the >headphones amp >pre- eq but post the first preamp stage to get the >high input impedance >and thus buffer the passive output of the bass >and avoid the over-driven >effect of the eq stage. sounds like a great idea... would LOVE it if onboard active preamp AND headphones preamp had completely seperated volume controls & buffers so they don't effect each others' operations >We can't really do that because the Aguilar circuit is encased in >black >epoxy and we don't know how it works >anyway. I know... I tried for 5 months to get the info from Aguilar BEFORE I bought and never did. Now I'm stuck w/ overpriced product that didn't fit my needs... paying big money to have my Aguilar DB-680 rack preamp modified to and can't get help from them. Dave Boonshoft doesn't seem to care much about meeting customer needs and won't put me in touch w/ Alex Aguilar. Amazing how many others have written me w/ similar complaints. Aguilar is great product but their service sucks... would never buy it again. Writting up negative review for my website, possibly Bass Frontiers Magazine, too. exceptional product AND service like that I've received from David King, Lane Poor, Bag End, QSC, Monster Cable, is why I use/endorse them, send as much business there way as I can, and I DON'T endorse those w/ inferior products like EMG & SWR or those with TERRIBLE customer relations like Aguilar & Demeter. >You might try putting a 12v "remote controller" >battery in the place >of >the 6v lithium photocell. That will double the headroom will try that... turns out those 12v remote control batteries are cheaper than the 6v photocells. Will they fit in the same bracket or do I need to install new battery holder? couldn't tell when i went to radio shack. btw: when i 1st got basses back there was absolutely NO headphones sound. took me a week before I looked inside and discovered the photocells were loose and needed re-taped in. have noticed now headphones work like when I had the Lane Poor active preamp instead of the Aguilar, only now there's less volume in the headphones but only when 1/4" jack NOT plugged into amp & push-pull volume knob pulled to "ON" position... if I plug it into an amp though there is virtually no volume at ALL in this position but works fine when knob in "OFF" position. i'm no electronics guru but what is happening here and how can we fix it??? Is Aguilar Preamp ON when only headphones plugged in, draining the 2 9v AND photocell? is that the same when 1/4" into amp, also, whether headphones plugged in or not, or lithium NOT being drained then cuz push knob in "OFF" position and headphones preamp just running off 9volts, also? >good for about 10-20 hours of play (headphones plugged >in keeps the > >system on) they were probably close to kicking by the time I got >done >with testing. quite possible... but still curious when each battery is being drained. will that buffer circuit mean headphones only drain photocell and only when knob in "ON" position; while Aguilar only drains 9v and only when 1/4" cable plugged into it? still confused here. >I did notice that thing sounded a Whole lot better through my Grado >80 >headphones than through the koss >ear buds, way more bass before > >distortion set in. > >You should contact Sensaphonics in Chicago about their >recommendations for >headphone amps that could be built into a bass. >If you are serious about >saving your >hearing, you should be >investing in their system anyway since >it's the only way you'll get >the 25 dB >isolation you need on stage. good point... always looking for best sound in smallest package (save my hearing, back, & air freight expenses). Would like to replace bulky headphones w/ smaller molded in-ear ear buds, hopefully w/ the 20 dB isolation of my Westone molded ear plugs. BTW: I don't like Acrylic molds... just the latex that covers the entire ear and locks in under the Tragus. i am urrently using AKG studio reference headhones but was planning on investing in Ultimate Ears molded ear buds for both 1/8" onboard headphones AND the AKG IVM-1 Wireless In-Ears monitor system I'm getting for my live show rack.. but I'll call Sensaphonics, first. got so tired of carrying around bag end cabs & heavy poweramps just to crank it for guitarists to hear while I wear my molded 25 dB in-ear plugs. now get better sound w/ more protection & only takes 1 trip to road in. BTW: if you know anyone needing a nice 10-space pullover case-in-case 20" rackable depth roadrack w/ rails both front & back OR a BagEnd ELF-1 please send them my way. I'd like to unload them. >Bill Bartolini makes the NTMB18 3 band eq with dual input buffers >than we >could have used to escape the loading problem had i know what a hassle the Aguilar was gonna be we would've gone w/ Bartolini's to begin with. I eventually want a 3-band w/ variable mid-range anyway (similar to the EMG-BQC setup w/ the clarity of Lane Poor & the bass clarity of Aguilar) but Aguilar doesn't seem to have any future plans to construct one >but the best solution will be to find a better chip than the LM386. >Lane >suggested a preamp chip and a couple high power transisters to >drive the >headphones but didn't say who what where when etc. if you can get me the parts & detailed instructions i've got a local guy who can put it in. he's also modifying my Aguilar DB-680 for me since David Boonshoft refused to because they were too busy ************************* From: Lane Poor Fri, 17 Dec 1999: > >Dave sent me a good verbal description of things, but I really could >use >schematics. Fax= 508 679 1904 I doubt Aguilar will EVER give me the schematics I've requested but David says he'll get you something. I don't know how to get ahold of Fodera, Bill Bartoline or Alex Aguilar for Ideas but I'll try Sensaphonics and The Bottom Line. ************************* From: David King Fri, 17 Dec 1999: > >You need to tell us exactly what you need from this system. Do you >only >need post eq monitoring? will your eq settings always be on 11? >How much >volume do you need? how much isolation? NEED ONE: Basic need is enough volume/isolation to be able to plug headphones directily into the bass and be able to rehearse/warm-up while on the bus, back-stage while opener plays, on-stage while guitarists are fucking-around setting up, whatever. NEED TWO: I would LOVE it if this same system could ALSO be used while at practive/on-stage so I can mute the amp but hear still be able to play w/o disturbing the band, audience, whoever's talking, whatever... like when 2 guitarists need to keep running a riff to get it tight and I want to run it w/ them w/o disturbing them. BUT this isn't REQUIRED since I'm also getting my Aguilar DB-680 rack pre modified to have one line-out dedicated for my AKG IVM-1 In-Ear monitor system that will tap into the tuner-send so it isn't effected by the mute switch... that way I can mute the DI & amp outs w/o muting my In-Ear monitors, whether i'm playing bass guitars or upright bass. FWIW: I'm also having push-pull knobs on FX loop to assign line level or instrument level similar to what is now standard on Aguilar DB-659 & an option they did for someone on a DB-680 but won't do for me. Would much rather have stomp boxes in FX loop than loading preamp input signal. >Can you use regular headphones most of the time? when rehearsing alone and ONLY using headphones.... YES if AKG Studio Reference quality & i'm not gonna be taking a walk around the block down a street w/ lots of traffic. Cheap headphones fart out before I can get any volume w/ significant bass. And it is difficult to hear clear intonation on fretless, especially when on low B-string. >Does the system have to work in both passive and >active modes? do my basses work in passive mode now that we took out the active-passive switch and installed the Aguilar Preamps? If NEED ONE can be met w/ passive then that's fine. If NEED ONE can only be met in active mode than, though not a requirement, it would be great if NEED TWO could be met so I have a back-up if my In-Ear monitors go down. >Do you really want a 1/4" phones jack? I've got an 1/8" phone jack for the headphones & a 1/4" mono jack for the amp-send, right??? >The battery situation is still the biggest hurdle. If we can keep the >circuit tiny, ie long and narrow then >there would be room for a >regular >9V (Lithium would >supply more current) in the control >cavity. I didn't >feel like redesigning the whole circuitboard when >the ic was part of the >problem but if we are >moving to a new IC then >let's do it right. AGREED! I don't know ANYTHING about electronics but it looked to me like there was room to rearrange things and make room for a 9v. For instance, do we need a big push-pull pot if: 1) we get the headphones & Aguilar preamps to draw off completely isolated power sources, 2) we get the 2 9v for the Aguilar to ONLY work when the instrument jack is plugged into. Similarly, and we get the battery for the headphones to only drain when headphones jack is plugged into. >Tony and Lane you should both check out the Headroom >site. Tyle >knows >headphone amps and is a great guy to talk to. I've been after >him to >design a musician's >system for years. He also has the best >take on >headphones and tests them all regularly. (He will >probably >suggest the >Grado 80s or the ERs) will do... what's the site address? I've talked to a lot of bassist who are interested in an affordable active preamp w/ onboard headphones system like this. I think there's a big market for it for those who don't enjoy the hassle of using an outboard system like the Fodera practice preamp... especially for those who like to practice while at work, while kids/wife are sleeping, while on a bus, taking a walk, whatever. NEED THREE: It would be AMAZING if this systme you guys design had an 1/8" input jack so I could plug a CD player, metronome, drum machine, whatever into it and hear both the bass AND extra input in the headphones. If this is possible I wouldn't mind having my current 1/8" headphones jack used as an auxiliary input and relocating headphones input jack somewhere more convenient for a cable run like maybe down by the 1/4" amp send jack or up near one of the strap buttons. Wish I knew how to get a hold of someone at AKG or Sony to help us w/ this. Sure Fodera, Bill Bartolini, & Alex Aguilar would have some good ideas, too, if I knew how to get a hold of them. peace, love, & understanding tony0 http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/palladium/1019 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com .