From owner-metabolic-reg@net.bio.net Wed Oct 13 23:00:00 1993
Path: biosci!daresbury!zeta.bmc.uu.se!corax.udac.uu.se!sunic!pipex!uunet!utcsri!utnut!alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca!mroussel
From: mroussel@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Marc Roussel)
Newsgroups: bionet.info-theory,bionet.metabolic-reg,comp.theory.self-org-sys,ut.nonlinear.dynamic-sys,sci.nonlinear
Subject: Electronic discussion: Newman's ideas on self-org. and thermo.
Message-ID: <1993Oct14.164815.12624@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
Date: 14 Oct 93 16:48:15 GMT
Sender: mroussel@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Marc Roussel)
Organization: Department of Chemistry, University of Toronto
Lines: 40
Xref: biosci bionet.info-theory:1663 bionet.metabolic-reg:72 comp.theory.self-org-sys:164 sci.nonlinear:392


     I have just run across an intriguing article by Stuart Newman on
self-organization and thermodynamics.  This article is a little old but
it might lead to a stimulating discussion anyway, first because it is
reasonably straightforward but still tightly argued (unlike much of the
literature in this area which seems to cluster around the extremes of
Prigogine-style illegibility or populist mush) and second because it is
short (just over two pages) so that many people, experts and nonexperts
alike, should be able to participate in this discussion.  The article is

	  Stuart A. Newman, "Note on complex systems", J. Theor. Biol.
	       28, 411 (1970).

     Here's what I propose:  I will wait about one week to give everyone
time to get to their library and read the article.  After getting the
article, please email me to suggest what you consider the most
appropriate newsgroup(s) for this discussion.  At present, I am inclined to
pick one regular Usenet group and one bionet group since there are
people who get one but not the other; if you fall into this category and
intend to follow or participate in this discussion, please let me know
or I will assume that my initial assumption was wrong and that it's OK
to pick a single newsgroup in either hierarchy.  Sometime around next
Wednesday or Thursday, I will launch the discussion; my initial posting
will be sent to all the newsgroups that this posting is directed to, but I will
indicate in which newsgroup(s) the discussion will continue and followups
will be redirected there.  We can also split off side-discussions to
appropriate newsgroups as things evolve.
     I have two reasons for doing this:  First, I am really interested
in what others think of Newman's ideas.  (I'll keep my opinions to
myself for now in order not to bias anyone else's readings.)  Secondly,
I view this as a sort of experiment:  I have been finding that Usenet is
less and less useful to me and am starting to wonder if that's not
partly my fault; perhaps the key to fruitful Usenet interactions is
taking an active role rather than simply reacting to conversations as
they happen.  I look forward to seeing how this turns out.

                                Sincerely,

				Marc R. Roussel
                                mroussel@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca

.