From owner-biophys@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Tue May 8 17:01:57 2001 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 324FB17B34 for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 17:01:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BB5717B1D for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 17:01:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (niobium [193.62.192.41]) by mercury.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13B3D17B36 for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 17:01:50 +0100 (BST) Received: (from news@localhost) by niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id RAA03390 for biophys-list@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk; Tue, 8 May 2001 17:01:49 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk: news set sender to using -f From: Gromit X-Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.talk.creationism,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics,bionet.biophysics,harvard.course.physics11a.q-a,sci.bio.paleontology,talk.atheism Subject: Re: The "Science" of John Boatwright Message-ID: <1115_989337782@GANDALF> References: <3ae8b06a.109420557@nntp.we.mediaone.net> <3AEDEF7F.7E7B31E5@mediaone.net> <3AEE46F7.12E64920@mediaone.net> <1103_988728794@GANDALF> <3AEEF3A9.F1C8A782@mediaone.net> <1104_988764931@GANDALF> Mime-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT 5.0) Opera 5.02 [en] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Lines: 64 Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 16:03:02 GMT To: biophys@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Sender: owner-biophys@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Precedence: bulk On Tue, 08 May 2001 13:51:16 GMT, ewill@lexideb.athghost7038suus.net (The Ghost In The Machine) wrote: > In talk.atheism, Gromit > > wrote > on Wed, 02 May 2001 00:55:31 GMT > <1104_988764931@GANDALF>: > >On Tue, 01 May 2001 17:25:58 GMT, George Hammond > > wrote: > >> Fred Stone wrote: > >> > > >> > Gromit wrote: > >> > > >> > > On Tue, 01 May 2001 05:09:17 GMT, George Hammond > >> > > > >> > > wrote: > >> > >> Dave Oldridge wrote: > >> > > > >> > > snip > >> > > > >> > >> The 13x13 experimental correlation matrix proves to be a > >> > >> perfect CUBE when you plot out all the angles. > >> > >> Now, don't tell me that's an ACCIDENT...! And if it isn't > >> > >> an accident, how would you explain it being cubic? > >> > > > >> > > Perhaps it's an accident, perhaps not. But you cannot just claim > >> > > that it is not an accident without some supporting evidence. > >> > > >> > Its the simple properties of eigenvectors. EV's are orthogonal ("right > >> > angles") and by simple scaling could be made to be "equal" in magnitude > >> > hence "cubic" in however many dimensions. > >> > >> [Hammond] > >> Wrong again amateur guesser. You'll really have to guess harder. > >> the 13-symmetry axes of a cube are NOT ORTHOGONAL for chrissakes. > >> neither are the 13-eigenvectors of Psychometry.... they are rotated > >> to "oblique simple structure" using maximum hyperplane count. > >> You don't know what you're talking about... PCA, Rotation, > >> Simple Structure, Hyperplane Count, etc. etc. are mathematical > >> physics subjects light years beyond your grade school education. > >> get outta here. > > > >If this is supposed to convince people that you have a serious > >scientific argument then I have to disappoint you. Such behavior > >of ad hominem is not very scientific nor very Christian. IMHO of course. > > However, his argument -- or maybe it's Dave's -- stripped of > ad homs, with respect to cube symmetry is in fact correct; > one set, for example, goes through two face centers (3); another > through two edge centers (6); still another through opposite > corners (4). Take any two of different classes and you'll > find that they don't meet at right angles. (Two of the same class, > at least for faces and edges, will meet at right angles, if one gives > it thought. The corners, I'm not sure about.) Why could he not have made the argument like you have done. Instead he decided to resort to insult.. > How that observation proves (or disproves!) God, or relates > to "the 13-eigenvectors of Psychometry", I've no idea. First > I've heard of Psychometry, in fact. I agree. .