From owner-metabolic-reg@net.bio.net Thu Mar 09 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!adam.cc.sunysb.edu!news.nysernet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dgsys.com!hyperreal.dgsys.com!user From: theseus@dgs.dgsys.com (Paul L. Moses) Newsgroups: bionet.metabolic-reg Subject: Training-Nutrition FAQ Date: 9 Mar 1995 17:33:36 GMT Organization: Labryinthine Pursuits, Ltd Lines: 356 Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: hyperreal.dgsys.com X-Newsreader: Value-Added NewsWatcher 2.0b22.0+ FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT TRAINING NUTRITION Version 3.0 3/8/95 1) What is this all about, anyway? 2) Ideological Baggage 2.1) Food fetishes 2.2) Drugz 2.3) Commerce 2.4) Supplements 3) Who is this for? 4) Where do I send mail? 5) What should I submit or not submit? 6) What's the deal?? 6.1) Bounced mail 6.2) Length between issues 6.3) Editorial matters 7) Where else can I look? 8) OK, I agree with all that, but what about getting BUFF/RIPPED??? 8.1) BMR 8.2) Bodyfat 8.3) Carbohydrates, Fat, and Protein 8.4) Hydration Complete Disclaimer: I disclaim all responsibility for anything on the list said by anyone besides me. Anything I say is purely the opinion of a layman, NOT an expert, so take it as such. I am not responsible for any injuries, malnutrition, scurvy, rickets, palsy, dementia, or fashion errors that you may incur after reading this FAQ or anything on the list. I am not responsible for anything except that for which I specifically take responsibility by saying so, so there. 1) WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT ANYWAY You've heard that bodybuilding is 50% nutrition over and over again. But what does that mean? This list is here to explore any and every aspect of food as it relates to bodybuilding goals in particular and conditioning for all sports in general to a lesser extent. Discussion will cover things including: - calorie counting - carbohydrate/protein/fat composition of food and diet - mass building diets - best diets for getting ripped - meal plans - 3, 4, 5, 6 a day? - recipes - snack suggestions and probably a lot of other things I'm overlooking right now. The focus is on constructing a useful program that will get you where you want to go. We're here to talk about making meals from real food that you can buy at at the supermarket at a reasonable cost. 2) IDEOLOGICAL BAGGAGE Yes, it's a pain but in the interest of "no surprises" it's probably best to spell all this out... 2.1) Food Fetishes This list FAVORS meat and dairy consumption. If this bothers you, go elsewhere. Vegetarian/lacto-ovo, etc bodybuilders are welcome here, but please, no preaching. Since protein is a crucial component to bodybuilding it would be foolish to rule out some of the most abundant sources of protein, "just because". On the other hand, LOW FAT is *strongly* encouraged. If you are submitting a recipe that -is- or -may be- more than 30% fat calories, label it as such! Vegetarian or lacto-ovo recipes are fine, but so are meat based recipes. Also, the exact balance of protein and carbohydrates in the diet probably will vary depending on what your goals are at a given time. We want to explore those kinds of questions. Bottom line: Think high protein, low fat, subject to some argument. 2.2) Drugz Drugs are illegal. Please do not argue the point here. Also, remember that using the internet necessarily requires use of the telephone system, and so any discussion about obtaining illegal drugs such as steroids (or should I say, obtaining drugs such as steroids illegally) on the internet involves an "instrumentality of interstate commerce" and thus kicks in FEDERAL drug laws. These include some pretty broad ones about conspiracy, with some pretty heinous consequences. Further, I personally don't like the user mentality and have no desire to support it. Bottom line: Don't use this list to look for ways to break or bend the law. 2.3) Commerce This list is not and will not be a marketing tool for some bozo selling AMWAY or Skinny Dip or whatever junk it is. Don't send mail advertising your miracle product here, don't send mail telling us about the great deal you can provide on supplements, etc. If you have done mail order with some place and had good results, ok, pass along the info if you want. Also if you've got to move and have no room for your stairclimber in the new place, that's ok too. I'd ask any personal trainers out there to avoid saying things like "I'm in Boston, anyone in the area give me a call at 999-888-9999 for a free consultation". What you SHOULD do is to make a .sig file for yourself with your phone number, fax, whatever contact info you want and to sign all your messages with this so that people CAN get in touch with you if they want. Also, the flip side consideration -your experience as a a buyer- is important too. If you've been ripped off or had a great experience, tell us about it. (No phony, Weider-like testimonials, please ;) 2.4) Supplements This list is not here to perpetuate the "magic bullet" theory of bodybuilding nutrition. There is no wonder substance that you can buy (legally) that will turn you into Hercules in six weeks, regardless of whatever other crap you are putting into your body. You need to look at EVERYTHING you eat and make some intelligent choices on that level. Questions that simply ask for recommendations for brand names, or dosages, or sources for these things will most likely be rejected from the list. If you have experience with using one or another brand and have something to say about HOW it helped you, or what you used it for (meal replacement, recipe ingredient, etc), that's ok. Unfortunately megabuck advertising budgets have made "supplements" into a focus of bodybuilding rather than a sideline, as they really are in a rational diet. There are many places to discuss supplements other than here, particularly misc.fitness. Don't post supplement questions here that are commonly asked and answered elsewhere (ie on weights or misc.fitness). Use some judgment and discretion. Bottom line: Real food is cheaper and better for you. 3) WHO IS THIS FOR? The short answer: natural (ie nonsteroid) bodybuilders who like to cook. The medium answer: everyone who is dedicated enough to a sport to be serious about nutrition. Beyond that, anyone who wants to be here. This not a weight-loss support list, though we'll be glad to hear that you did. This is not a beginning fitness list, so don't rely on it for such advice. We want to hear from everyone who can open the discussion in useful ways -- ways that expand what we know about food and exercise. 4) WHERE DO I SEND MAIL? Anything you would like to see in the next issue should go to: trnutr@dgs.dgsys.com For requests to subscribe or unsubscribe, to get the FAQ, or for other matters send mail with your request in the Subject: line to: trnutreq@dgs.dgsys.com 5) WHAT SHOULD I SUBMIT OR NOT SUBMIT? Strongly encouraged: low fat recipes with nutritional analysis, personal experiences, questions, comments, suggestions, recommendations.... Discouraged: flame wars, personal attacks, requests for drugs, solicitation for customers, wholesaling or other blatant advertising, other bad things. 6) WHAT'S THE DEAL?!?!?? 6.1) Bounced mail If your mail bounces, there are two immediate possibiilities. First, you made a typo in the address. Check it again. Second, there is a problem at dgsys (ie, on the list side of things). If you get a strange unix-like message back and the address is correct, then most likely the system here is all messed up. Please resend the message in a day or so. I'm not happy about that, but it's the only option since I have no control over the administration here. 6.2) Length of time between issues If you're thinking it's been a long time since you've seen an issue of Training-Nutrition, don't worry. Issues come out on an irregular basis, essentially whenever I think there's enough new material for a new issue. So if you haven't seen anything for a while, contribute something to the list. That might be enough to get a new issue out ;) If it's been more than a week or two, send a question to the request address. 6.3) Editorial matters I take an active role in putting out each issue. I may edit your letter before sending out to the list. I may indicate such editing by putting in ... where material was removed. Then again, I may not. I may make a comment on what you wrote. I may disagree with a position you have. Don't take it personally. I don't know you, I don't have any reason to be gunning for you, and frankly, I've got better things to do with my time. Chalk it up to a clash of ideas, and forget about it. If you think that I have made an uninformed statement and have a reasonable way to explain what my misconception is, sure, let me know. Send messages like that to trnutreq. Otherwise, don't bother. 7) WHERE ELSE CAN I LOOK? Right now the only directly relevant thing I can cite is _Optimum Sports Nutrition_ by Dr. Michael Colgan, ISBN 0-9624840-5-9. For discussion about weight training, there's the weights list. Contact weights-request@fa.disney.com for more info. Two magazines with some consistently reliable info are HARDGAINER and Natural Bodybuilding and Fitness. HARDGAINER ($25/year, bimonthly) PO Box 6365, Louisville, KY 40207 (US and Canada) c/o CS Publishing Ltd, PO Box 8186, CY-2091, Nicosia, Cyprus (foreign address for people outside the US) Natural Bodybuilding and Fitness ($21.50/8 issues, quarterly) Cheleo Publishing, 350 Fifth Avenue, Suite 3323, NY, NY 10118 There is also a USENET newsgroup devoted to weight training and aerobic exercise issues called misc.fitness. For other food ideas, there's also the EAT-LF list and the fatfree list, both of which are mailing lists strongly influenced by the Ornish and McDougal diet books. Sorry but there is no ftp site for back issues of Training-Nutrition yet. There IS a web site, where you can find the FAQ, back issues, and even a picture of yours truly. Set your web browsers to: http://www.dgsys.com/~trnutr/index.html 8) OK, I AGREE WITH ALL THAT, BUT WHAT ABOUT GETTING *BUFF/RIPPED*??? This is the whole point, after all, eh? At least of this FAQ and list... Well, there are a couple things you need to do. First, you've got to be challenging yourself in the gym in the right way for your particular goals. Without that, the rest of this doesn't make much difference. But if you are, then a) buy a paperback book of food counts to get a sense of how healthy certain foods are (protein/carb/fat/total calories) b) take a good look at what exactly you are eating now and when in the day you eat c) if motivated, keep a written record of what you eat over the course of a few days or a week and add up the calories, fat, etc. d) ADJUST YOUR FOOD HABITS to - reduce fat - get enough protein - eat more earlier in the day and less later - try to have smaller meals more often rather than a few large meals far apart (4, 5, or 6 in place of "the big 3") That's still fairly general advice but it will take you a long way. Make sure you are eating enough to power you through workouts, but not so much that you get fat! Also, too few calories will kick your body into "starvation mode" where both gains in size and loss of fat are few and far between. Figuring out a good target range of calories depends on a lot of factors, including your daily activity level, your basal metabolic rate, your goals (getting bigger vs getting cut up), and other stuff too. Some basic touchstones to consider here are your basal metabolic rate (BMR) and your bodyfat level. There are numerous professional tests that can be done to determine these accurately, but (1) these require someone else to do them and (2) they'll cost you money. So if you're looking for a quick, cheap way to get a *ballpark* figure on these, you can try these simple algebra equations... 8.1) BMR - Basal Metabolic Rate For BMR: Men: 11 (eleven) x bodyweight in pounds = daily caloric use Women: 10 (ten) x bodyweight (thanks to Bob Lowe for that formula) Or... From: Lec13@aol.com Subject: BMR Calculation Straight from the ACSM, here it is... BMR=weight in kilos (to get this multiply wt. x .45) x 24= AKA BMR(X) Multiply X by .40. Add this number to X. This is your minimum daily maintenance level of calories. -Lori Figuring out your BMR should give you a floor, a minimum target for your diet planning. You will want to set your total calories somewhere between 130% - 160% of BMR for mass building or 70% - 110% for fat loss. Remember, everyone needs to experiment to see what works for them. These are NOT hard and fast rules, and not even guaranteed to be "healthy". (Eg if you eat 160% of BMR by consuming only Doritos you wouldn't likely be in as good condition as someone eating 90% BMR with fish, chicken and milk!) These are some extremely ROUGH GUESSES only. 8.2) Bodyfat For bodyfat percentage: For men: Bodyfat = -98.42 + 4.15*waist - .082*bodyweight For women: Bodyfat = -76.76 + 4.15*waist - .082*bodyweight where "waist" is your waist measurement in inches, and "bodyweight" is your total body weight in pounds. then Bodyfat Percentage = Bodyfat / Bodyweight Don't forget to do this last step! Figuring out your bodyfat percentage on a regular basis should give you some feedback as to how well your meal planning is working. The general yardstick here is something on the lines of: 15% bodyfat = "smooth" 10% bodyfat = "cut" 5% bodyfat = "ripped" However it is much easier to get from 15% to 10% than it is to get from 10% to 5%! Be very careful when trying to get ripped...5% BF may actually be too low for you. Use common sense...if people start asking about your health or say you look too thin (notably parents :), you may need to cut yourself some slack on the weight loss. Or if you just can't break 8%, ask yourself whether you really NEED to. And you can always try again later on. 8.3) Carbohydrates, Fat, and Protein (This section under construction. Please contribute info.) All calories are not created equal. Fat calories may be deposited directly as fat more easily than carb calories, and simple sugar carb calories are more easily converted to fat than complex carb calories. Shoot for more complex carbs in general. Protein vs carbohyrdates balance is a complicated question and I'll come back to it later after it's been hashed out on the list a few (dozen) times. 8.4) Hydration An inactive person requires a minimum of 1.2 liters of water a day to keep all body systems functioning properly. Some level of activity (walking around, normal daily actions) doubles this requirement. High humidity again can double the needed amount, as can hard exercise. It may not be unusual to reach a need of 8-10 liters a day. To adequately rehydrate yourself at the end of the day, drink water slowly, one glass at a time, until you have to "answer the call". Then continue to drink more water, until the need arises a second time. Remember that caffeine and alcohol are diuretic, so consuming coffee, tea, beer, etc, will cause the body a net LOSS of water. One indicator of insufficient water intake is the color of urine - the darker it is, the more water you need. (However other medical conditions and drugs may also have a discoloring effect.) Since your body runs on autopilot for six to eight hours while you are asleep, try to get enough water in the evening. I mean, what else are you doing besides watching TV, anyway? This may even allieviate the snacking urge somewhat, and your kidneys will be much happier, too. ------------------------------------- .