From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Thu Apr 21 23:00:00 1994 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.uh.edu!jetson.uh.edu!schieber From: schieber@jetson.uh.edu (Schieber, Jay D.) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Re: Discussion: What is "temperature"? Date: 22 Apr 1994 17:44 CDT Organization: University of Houston Lines: 57 Distribution: world Message-ID: <22APR199417442139@jetson.uh.edu> References: <19APR199421362268@jetson.uh.edu> <1994Apr21.210617.15474@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 In article <1994Apr21.210617.15474@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, mroussel@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Marc Roussel) writes... >In article <19APR199421362268@jetson.uh.edu> schieber@jetson.uh.edu >(Schieber, Jay D.) writes: >>In article , >>runsun@bilbo.bio.purdue.edu writes... >>>Don't know if this is the right group to ask this simple question ( I hope the >>>answer will be simple too): What is "temperature" ? >> >>Temperature is defined as (dU/dS)_V, which is the rate of change >>of internal energy with respect to entropy at constant volume. > > I've always found this a bit disapointing since it tells me nothing >about temperature that I can really understand. Fortunately, there are >other views. Of course, there are other views, but it is always necessary to start with the definitions, since everything else is just handwaving, and gets you into real trouble when you begin to do anything analytical. If you want to make headway into understanding, then you should look at the other works for statistical mechanics that I cited earlier but you deleted. These works of Boltzmann and Gibbs connect molecular ideas with the definitions of thermodynamics. > >>For fundamental textbooks in this area, I would recommend that >>by Herb Callen, and that by David Chandler. There may be more >>basic textbooks, but those are usually unsatisfactory because >>they are oversimplifications. > > Truesdell's "Rational Thermodynamics" gives what I consider the >most satisfying treatment, both mathematically and conceptually. >Temperature is a mapping (via a measuring device called, not >surprisingly, a thermometer) onto the real numbers from an ordered set >of "hotnesses". "Hotness" is, in Truesdell's view, a primitive concept, >like time. He, of course, goes into rather more detail than this, but >that's the gist. How does he define "hotness"? What are his postulates? > Anyone who is really interested in thermodynamics should read >Truesdell's book. Even if one cannot always agree with his views, his >comments are always enlightening and challenging. I am not a real fan of the book. Have you looked at the ones that I recommend? These are more physics oriented than mathematics oriented, as I view T.'s book. > I haven't looked at his treatment of temperature specifically, but >Denbigh's "Principles of Chemical Equilibrium" is one of the better and >most carefully argued books on thermodynamics available. > > Marc R. Roussel > mroussel@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca .