--- Log opened Wed Oct 05 00:00:19 2005
00:02:42-!- asari_ [n=chatzill@p2204-ipbf509marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #Fink
00:06:54-!- drm [n=drm@ip68-108-245-119.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #fink
00:08:52-!- asari [n=chatzill@p2204-ipbf509marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:40:58-!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #fink
01:06:04-!- shres [n=sshreyas@59.92.128.179] has joined #fink
01:30:43-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"]
01:30:49-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #fink
01:32:42-!- drm [n=drm@ip68-108-245-119.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:50:25-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has quit ["leaving"]
02:01:02-!- shres [n=sshreyas@59.92.128.179] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:39:26-!- Feanor [n=astrange@opendarwin/developer/feanor] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:53:22-!- shres [n=sshreyas@59.92.147.38] has joined #fink
04:26:08-!- geewz [n=gregreed@ppp122-142.static.internode.on.net] has joined #fink
04:40:03-!- Feanor [n=astrange@opendarwin/developer/feanor] has joined #fink
04:51:41-!- geewz [n=gregreed@ppp122-142.static.internode.on.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
05:31:39-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"]
05:31:39-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #fink
05:48:40-!- shres [n=sshreyas@59.92.147.38] has quit ["I am sleepy"]
06:07:52-!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit []
06:24:29-!- asari__ [n=chatzill@p2204-ipbf509marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #Fink
06:24:35-!- asari__ is now known as asari
06:24:37-!- asari_ [n=chatzill@p2204-ipbf509marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
06:59:47-!- Feanor [n=astrange@opendarwin/developer/feanor] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
07:48:55-!- rand [n=admin@216.129.208.116] has joined #fink
07:48:59-!- rand is now known as rand-irc
07:49:22< rand-irc> morning all
08:12:55-!- baba [n=baba@YahooBB220041000212.bbtec.net] has joined #fink
08:26:21-!- rand-irc [n=admin@216.129.208.116] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.g1m0.se/macirssi/"]
08:26:27-!- dkg [i=dkg@83.64.192.28] has joined #fink
08:26:27< dkg> hi
08:26:42< dkg> i wanted to install imagemagick but it needs xfree86/x11.
08:26:56< dkg> then i upgraded to unstable.
08:27:08< dkg> but i'm still not able to install it.
08:27:18< dkg> do i need to install x11 from somewhere else?
08:30:08< dkg> do i need this? http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/x11formacosx.html
08:31:28-!- drm [n=drm@ip68-108-245-119.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #fink
08:35:26-!- emp [n=emp@70.57.239.38] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
08:36:29-!- RangerAway is now known as RangerRick
08:38:45< RangerRick> dkg: install imagemagick-nox if you don't want X
08:38:58< RangerRick> dkg: otherwise, follow the instructions in the faq to get your x11 working
08:38:59< RangerRick> !x11
08:39:06< RangerRick> !system-x11
08:39:14< RangerRick> ok, I don't remember what the keyword is  ;)
08:39:38< dkg> RangerRick: i need imagemagick to manipulate files with webapps.
08:39:43< RangerRick> http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-packages.php?phpLang=en#apple-x11-wants-xfree86
08:39:45< dkg> RangerRick: will it work without X?
08:40:33< RangerRick> dkg: right, but there's 2 versions. "imagemagick" which links against x libraries, and "imagemagick-nox" which doesn't
08:40:50< RangerRick> I'm not sure what is lost with the nox version, but I assume you can still manipulate png/gif/etc.
08:41:37< dkg> very cool! thanks for this tipp!
08:56:12< dkg> where to get libapache2-mod-jk?
08:56:22< dkg> will there be a package for fink?
08:57:44< baba> jk?  joke?
08:59:07< RangerRick> the java plugin I think
09:00:02< RangerRick> if it's in the pdb, it's packaged, if not, we'd happily take submissions  ;)
09:03:14< dkg> i'll have a look and build one.
09:03:22< dkg> i'll try at least.
09:03:56< dkg> is there a dummy package template for another apache module to have a look?
09:09:23< baba> fink list apache
09:17:18< dkg> there is no dos2unix, but its in the packagelist. :(
09:17:32< RangerRick> !unstable
09:17:37< RangerRick> dammit, no bots!
09:17:47< RangerRick> http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php?phpLang=en#unstable
09:17:49< RangerRick> there  :)
09:17:57 * RangerRick installed it recently, so he knows it exists
09:18:46< dkg> - /usr/libexec/gcc/darwin/ppc/3.3/cc1plus is not executable!
09:18:52< dkg> i get this message all the time.
09:19:05< dkg> i run unstable.
09:19:35< RangerRick> dkg: usually means you need to reinstall xcode, I believe
09:19:35< dkg> macmini:/opt/tmp/HelmaTwoday/helma-1.5.0pre2 admin$ apt-cache policy
09:19:36< dkg> /usr/libexec/gcc/darwin/ppc/3.3/cc1plus is not executable!
09:19:37-!- geewz [n=gregreed@ppp122-142.static.internode.on.net] has joined #fink
09:19:44< dkg> i did not installed it so far.
09:19:46< dkg> wehre to get it?
09:19:51< dkg> is it free?
09:20:36< RangerRick> you don't run unstable if you don't have xcode  :)
09:20:42< RangerRick> there are no unstable packages in apt
09:20:48< RangerRick> it's a free download from http://connect.apple.com/
09:20:53< RangerRick> (although you need to register)
09:22:14< dkg> 751.8 MB?
09:23:26-!- geewz [n=gregreed@ppp122-142.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Client Quit]
09:30:50-!- gopherd_ [n=irclogge@tor/session/x-91e111d36802ac17] has joined #fink
09:30:50-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis
09:30:50-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005]
09:30:50[Users #fink]
09:30:50[ Airo     ] [ cmeme   ] [ gzl         ] [ mdmonk_ ] [ RangerRick] 
09:30:50[ asari    ] [ dkg     ] [ hennker_    ] [ megahal ] [ RLD_osx   ] 
09:30:50[ baba     ] [ drm     ] [ jack-       ] [ Melian  ] [ slyrus    ] 
09:30:50[ BleedAway] [ eno-away] [ JosephSpiros] [ muesli  ] [ swix__    ] 
09:30:50[ brendan  ] [ Erik____] [ kane-xs     ] [ Murr    ] [ usataway  ] 
09:30:50[ cirdan   ] [ gecko2  ] [ KraMer      ] [ newmanbe] 
09:30:50[ Clef__   ] [ gopherd ] [ lisppaste   ] [ pnorman ] 
09:30:50[ cls      ] [ gopherd_] [ mcp         ] [ pogma   ] 
09:30:50-!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 37 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 37 normal]
09:30:51-!- [freenode-info] Welcome Tor users! Please stop by #tor to compare notes and to report any freenode Tor problems.
09:30:51-!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug  3 17:57:20 2003
09:31:10-!- Irssi: Join to #fink was synced in 21 secs
09:31:59< RangerRick> not legacy tools
09:32:03< RangerRick> xcode tools
09:32:07< RangerRick> 2.1
09:32:13< RangerRick> assuming you're  ontiger
09:32:45< dkg> thats  751.8 MB
09:32:49< dkg> do i need all of them?
09:33:29< RangerRick> if you want to build things from unstable, yes
09:38:01< dkg> :-(
09:38:09< dkg> i just want to install binaries from unstable.
09:40:20-!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink
09:40:41< dkg> RangerRick: how to get dos2unix?
09:40:50< dkg> RangerRick: without needing to get xcode.
09:40:55< dkg> RangerRick: ist it possible?
09:41:12< dkg> RangerRick: i added unstable to fink.conf trees and run update afterwards.
09:44:21< akh> dkg: http://fink.sourceforge.net/pdb/package.php/dos2unix --it's not in the binary distribution, so you have to have XCode.
09:44:43-!- spiral [n=spiral@laf31-2-82-224-249-43.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #fink
09:44:48< dkg> akh: ic. thanks. this sucks!
09:45:35-!- newmanbe_ [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-5ddaa7604bfc7fca] has joined #fink
09:52:44-!- baba [n=baba@YahooBB220041000212.bbtec.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
09:56:59< akh> dkg: It does seem a bit excessive for a small package, I agree.
09:57:23< cirdan> yoyo
09:58:21-!- drm [n=drm@ip68-108-245-119.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
09:58:36< akh> hi cirdan
09:59:20< akh> ( + others )
10:00:20< cirdan> heh
10:00:49< akh> (I've been in and out of the office since I logged on and didn't want to be rude ;-) )
10:01:02< cirdan> heh
10:02:34< gecko2> dkg: -r-xr-xr-x   1 root  wheel  9174024 14 Mai 12:41 /usr/libexec/gcc/darwin/ppc/3.3/cc1plus <-- that one?
10:02:52< gecko2> was in the xcode addone package
10:03:38< gecko2> packaged together with gcc3.1 and gcc2.95
10:03:47< gecko2> and few other thinks
10:04:20< gecko2> ahh, yea, the xcode legacy tools
10:04:30< gecko2> that was the package iirc
10:05:09< gecko2> hmm
10:05:10< gecko2> gecko@g4:~ $ lsbom /Library/Receipts/gcc3.3.pkg/Contents/Archive.bom | grep /usr/libexec/gcc/darwin/ppc/3.3/cc1plus
10:05:10< gecko2> ./usr/libexec/gcc/darwin/ppc/3.3/cc1plus        100555  0/0     9174024 507373994
10:05:19< gecko2> thats it
10:10:36< dkg> so i just need legacy tools?
10:10:40< dkg> are they enough?
10:10:42< dkg> gecko2: 
10:11:11< akh> dkg: no--that package contains the compilers Fink _doesn't_ normally use.
10:11:38< gecko2> hm, ohh, gcc3.3.pkg is part of the Xcode Tools itself
10:11:53< gecko2> only 3.1 and 2.95 are in the legacy
10:12:13< dkg> so i need both? :)
10:12:20< dkg> they kill me.
10:12:29< dkg> (download limit)
10:12:29< gecko2> Xcode Tools are needed
10:12:35< dkg> ok.
10:12:42< gecko2> Legacy is optional
10:13:14< gecko2> download limits are bad
10:13:21< dkg> word
10:13:29< dkg> in the office
10:16:53< gecko2> ahh
10:17:06< gecko2> RangerRick: hm, is Xcode Tools 2.2 Developer Preview 1 stable enough for installation?
10:17:58< RangerRick> gecko2: I've not run into any issues, but YMMV
10:19:26< gecko2> ahh, well
10:19:43< gecko2> then i'll install it
10:45:41 * akh keeps debating installing XCode 2.2 Preview on my 10.4.3 seed box.
10:50:41< dkg> *install*
10:53:48-!- spiral [n=spiral@laf31-2-82-224-249-43.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
10:55:23< dkg> does it really optimize my system performance?
10:55:33< dkg> it tells me after installing.
10:56:58< akh> Possibly.
10:57:18< akh> I thought that Tiger didn't require that anymore, though the installer still does it.
10:57:36< dkg> ic
10:58:01< dkg> do i need to install webobjects?
10:59:18< dkg> selfupdate will take some time.
10:59:44< dkg> 14 packages on macmini.
10:59:48< dkg> how long will it take?
11:00:50< gecko2> it will take as long as it will take
11:01:08< dkg> like in debian?
11:01:14< dkg> (in releasing). :)
11:01:16< dkg> jk.
11:01:30< gecko2> hehe
11:01:31< dkg> gecko2: do we know us from symlink?
11:01:45< gecko2> yes
11:02:25< gecko2> * [dkg] ist abwesend (vienna) <-- ömm ja
11:02:43< dkg> thats right.
11:02:50< dkg> here i am.
11:02:59< dkg> in the knallgrau office.
11:06:11< gecko2> ahh
11:06:16-!- das_ [i=das@sparky.doit.wisc.edu] has joined #fink
11:08:00-!- Albie [n=ambs@bl5-161-183.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #fink
11:38:20-!- gopherd_ [n=irclogge@tor/session/x-22caf3851a39823a] has joined #fink
11:38:20-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis
11:38:20-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005]
11:38:20[Users #fink]
11:38:20[ Airo     ] [ cls     ] [ gopherd_    ] [ mcp      ] [ pnorman   ] 
11:38:20[ akh      ] [ cmeme   ] [ gzl         ] [ mdmonk_  ] [ pogma     ] 
11:38:20[ Albie    ] [ das_    ] [ hennker_    ] [ megahal  ] [ RangerRick] 
11:38:20[ asari    ] [ dkg     ] [ jack-       ] [ Melian   ] [ RLD_osx   ] 
11:38:20[ BleedAway] [ eno-away] [ JosephSpiros] [ muesli   ] [ slyrus    ] 
11:38:20[ brendan  ] [ Erik____] [ kane-xs     ] [ Murr     ] [ spiral    ] 
11:38:20[ cirdan   ] [ gecko2  ] [ KraMer      ] [ newmanbe ] [ swix__    ] 
11:38:20[ Clef__   ] [ gopherd ] [ lisppaste   ] [ newmanbe_] [ usataway  ] 
11:38:20-!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 40 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 40 normal]
11:38:20-!- [freenode-info] Welcome Tor users! Please stop by #tor to compare notes and to report any freenode Tor problems.
11:38:20-!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug  3 17:57:20 2003
11:39:00-!- Irssi: Join to #fink was synced in 41 secs
11:41:32-!- drm [n=drm@tux3.math.duke.edu] has joined #fink
11:45:18-!- bbraun [n=bbraun@opendarwin/core/bbraun] has joined #fink
11:45:22< bbraun> drm?
11:45:58< drm> hi bbraun
11:45:58< bbraun> you rang?
11:46:12< drm> was just saying hi in the other channel
11:46:13< drm> oh, also, i keep buggin kvv about ldap on our behalf :)
11:46:13< bbraun> ah, ok.  just wanted to make sure nothing (other than what I already know about) is broken.  =)
11:46:25< bbraun> cool.  he checked in with me last night and said he made progress.
11:47:16< drm> hey, the opendarwin logs scrollback said something about a new gig?
11:53:09-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pool-70-22-58-73.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #fink
11:54:58< akh> gig like 10^9 bytes?
11:55:33< drm> not my impression
11:56:02< drm> i think bbraun found a new job, but it was hard to tell from the brief reference
11:56:05< akh> (I didn't really think so, but it _is_ a computer channel, so...)
11:56:46 * drm is reminded that he is also unsure of how dmacks "real life" career is progressing
11:57:30< dmacks> Not well.
11:57:37< akh> :-(
11:57:38< drm> sorry to hear that
11:58:58< drm> damn
11:59:19< bbraun> drm: yup, new job
11:59:29< bbraun> programming, doing super secret work.
11:59:33< dmacks> Ya.
11:59:41< drm> bbraun: you seemed overqualified for the current one IMHO
11:59:43< bbraun> but, it'll be on osx again, so I may have more time/resource for osx related stuff.
12:00:27< dmacks> bbraun: congrats. BTW, the crow flies south, with full stomach.
12:00:45< bbraun> dmacks: hehe.  thanks.
12:03:49< drm> bbraun: and since the cause of your discomfort at fink has vanished into thin air, perhaps we will see more of you as well
12:05:05< cirdan> hey drm
12:05:07< cirdan> bbraun: 
12:05:12< dmacks> drm: heh
12:05:13< drm> cirdan! 
12:05:18< cirdan> drm!
12:05:26< cirdan> i'm putting my branch into HEAD
12:05:47< cirdan> i'll try to seperate it into 2 commits
12:05:55< dmacks> With all the hurricanage, careful you don't get a branch stuck in your head too.
12:06:09< cirdan> adding funcs for getting os x/darwin version, and then the upgrade code
12:06:13< cirdan> !lart dmacks
12:06:22 * Melian calls dmacks on the phone ... the lights are on but nobody's home
12:06:50< dmacks> Ironically, we're just recovering from a power outage:)
12:07:01< drm> well, i was having some discussions with vasi and dmacks about what we actually want the upgrade to do....which may or may not be what your code does
12:07:02< drm> but its a good starting point
12:07:43< cirdan> my code can do whatever it's coded to
12:08:05< cirdan> :-)
12:08:07< drm> indeed
12:08:10< dmacks> Unlike pathsetup.sh apparently:/
12:08:13< cirdan> right now it doesn't do a whole lot, just tells ppl if they are running mismatched fink dists/os x
12:08:22< drm> i wonder if there is somebody at apple who can better explain to us what happens during the installer.app postflight, dmacks
12:09:10< dmacks> drm: Yeah. I tried asking a while back and the general level of understanding was low.
12:09:35< drm> oops, low battery, bbl
12:09:57-!- drm [n=drm@tux3.math.duke.edu] has quit ["Leaving"]
12:10:00< dmacks> Some responses suggested that it was okay for a userland GUI app to run 'sudo'.
12:11:09< dmacks> Whoops, speaking of "low":)
12:11:13< cirdan> heh
12:20:55< bbraun> hey cirdan
12:21:14< cirdan> bbraun.
12:21:15< bbraun> sorry, little lagged.  =)
12:21:15< cirdan> someone drive to new orleans and give me some computer games, damnit!
12:21:29< dmacks> gnome-games, man.
12:21:44< bbraun> dude, all about 8bit nes emulation.
12:21:45< cirdan> heh
12:21:53< cirdan> bbraun: i wish i had some
12:21:56< cirdan> actuaclly...
12:22:01< cirdan> they are small enough to d/l...
12:22:09< cirdan> now if i only brought my ps2 controller
12:22:09< bbraun> yeah.  kinda small.
12:22:11< cirdan> :-)
12:22:12< bbraun> hehe
12:22:22< cirdan> iSHock!
12:22:35< bbraun> yeah, much better to play with a controller than the keyboard, but in a pinch, the keyboard will do.
12:22:40< cirdan> yup
12:22:48< cirdan> really wish i had warcrafy
12:22:52< cirdan> or BF1942
12:22:59< cirdan> mmm...
12:24:23< dmacks> 'emacs -batch -l dunnet'
12:27:31-!- dmacks is now known as dmacks_away
12:42:52-!- rand [n=admin@216.129.208.116] has joined #fink
12:42:59-!- rand is now known as rand-irc
12:53:43< rand-irc> hey all
12:59:11< akh> hi
13:02:31< rand-irc> busy day?
13:04:42< RangerRick> is here
13:04:42< RangerRick> got my crazy java code all working
13:04:48-!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
13:04:50< RangerRick> whee!
13:13:02-!- shres [n=sshreyas@59.92.136.115] has joined #fink
13:16:57< rand-irc> cool
13:17:00< akh> RangerRick: So it's driven you insane? :-P
13:17:06< rand-irc> which crazy java code? :)
13:19:29< RangerRick> rand-irc: some stuff for work
13:19:35< RangerRick> I've written a kind of "business logic proxy"
13:19:47< RangerRick> when we switched mailing list (spam) companies, we had to rewrite all our different sites' code to talk to the new company's API
13:20:23< RangerRick> instead of doing that again when/if we have to swtich in the future, I wrote a servlet that talks to the mailing list company for subscribe/unsubscribe, and made an XML-RPC interface for our sites to talk to
13:21:20< RangerRick> so now if we have to change companies again, we just need to change my servlet to talk to the new backend, rather than changing all our sites
13:21:32< RangerRick> it's pretty spiffy  :)
13:21:32< rand-irc> cool
13:21:34< RangerRick> not that it's really for spamming, but it's for sending out newsletters and stuff  :)
13:21:35< rand-irc> it sounds good
13:21:35 * RangerRick isn't an opt-in kind of guy, so it's all spam to him
13:21:36< rand-irc> hehe
13:22:27< cirdan> nice
13:22:57< rand-irc> how's your database work these days rr?
13:22:57< rand-irc> :)
13:27:58< RangerRick> rand-irc: eh?
13:28:09-!- slyrus [n=slyrus@flypaper.BDGP.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #fink
13:30:23-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"]
13:30:23-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #fink
13:32:07-!- sid77 [n=sid77@host-84-222-60-75.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #fink
13:38:39< rand-irc> was thinking of some database work i would like to do , and your name came up :)
13:45:10-!- ambs_ [n=ambs@bl5-166-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #fink
13:46:10-!- ambs_ [n=ambs@bl5-166-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit]
13:49:34-!- dmacks_away is now known as dmacks
13:49:53 * akh wonders if I'll get some of that SPAM, er, mail, that RangerRick has written the app for.
13:49:53< dmacks> RangerRick: PLEAS ADD ME 2 YUR LIST!!!11!!1!!!!!!!!
13:51:03-!- regeya [n=shane@65.171.234.176] has joined #fink
13:51:32< dmacks> Speaking of java, RangerRick, why are many of lib/ant/lib/*.jar empty?
13:52:33< akh> I've heard of ant leaving a jar, but not jars leaving an ant.  ;-)
13:52:39< akh> (change first to 'ants' for better joke)
13:52:58< dmacks> heh
13:54:00< dmacks> akh: I'd *love* a better package.php layout. The current is a compromise we hammered out a yearish ago without ever really beta'ing it with Actual Users.
13:55:08< akh> dmacks: It won't be a huge change.
13:56:18 * akh takes a few minutes to see if I can do it easily...
13:56:25< RangerRick> dmacks: because they require optional stuff that's not in our ant build
13:56:26< rand-irc> dmacks: :P
13:56:27< RangerRick> I'm gonna be reworking ant, making an -optional package that builds all the deps and stuff
13:56:31-!- Albie [n=ambs@bl5-161-183.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
13:57:35< dmacks> RangerRick: Okay. I noticed it because a -submissions wouldn't build for me. Rebuilding ant populated "several more" of the .jar but still not all.
13:57:54< RangerRick> yeah, it's nondeterministic right now  :P
13:58:23< dmacks> All I know is that it did not depend on whether ant was already installed or whether the ANT_* env var was set
13:58:57 * dmacks wonders if the actual compiling is handled by Installer.app
13:59:51< akh> hehe
13:59:53< rand-irc> you guys seen thesin around recently¿
13:59:54< dmacks> !seen thesin
13:59:54< Melian> i haven't seen 'thesin', dmacks
14:00:38 * dmacks saw him within the past month but not within the past week.
14:00:40< rand-irc> rgr
14:02:42< rand-irc> how would someone encrypt the source code but still allow to use it to compile with?
14:03:24< dmacks> Tell people the password to unencrypt it.
14:03:54-!- Albie [n=ambs@bl5-166-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #fink
14:04:50< rand-irc> http://www.sawmill.net/cgi-bin/sawmill7_download.pl?sawmill  <-- check the pulldown menu
14:05:22< rand-irc> you can't view or read the source, but you can still compile with it, which seems strange
14:05:38< RangerRick> you can obfuscate, but not encrypt.  if it was encrypted, the compiler couldn't compile it  :)
14:05:43 * dmacks examines...
14:06:17< dmacks> Maybe they distribute a custom gcc that can decrypt:)
14:07:16< dmacks> From the web page: 'This file being downloaded is a gzipped tar file containing encrypted ("obfuscated") source code.'
14:08:23 * dmacks aborts download after 20 bytes were transmitted in the first minute.
14:08:25< rand-irc> heh
14:10:24 * dmacks wonders how many GPL violations they are trying to cover:)
14:10:44< rand-irc> download it :)
14:10:58< rand-irc> crack the code
14:12:12< dmacks> Prolly just did a bunch of s/useful_name/gibberish/ on the functions and variables.
14:12:24< dmacks> (...which already makes them smarter than SCO)
14:15:57< rand-irc> wouldnt' that be easyish to figure out?  i'm assuming they would have to make it easy for gcc to figure out
14:16:45< dmacks> Sure. Me just doesn't feel like figuring it out for the case at hand:)
14:17:02< akh> dmacks: http://wiki.opendarwin.org/index.php/Fink:Documentation_Jottings#PDB
14:17:15< akh> (a picture is worth 10^3 words)
14:19:06< dmacks> "Distribution Version" is a feature of binary only, not source.
14:20:13< akh> dmacks: To a certain extent, yes.  But 'fink --version' still shows a "Distribution version".
14:20:27< dmacks> (or if there were an unstable bindist, it could have different versioning)
14:21:00< akh> True.
14:21:37< akh> For our current purposes the "distribution version" column is redundant.
14:23:03< dmacks> True.
14:23:06< dmacks> So do we really need it at all?
14:23:12< akh> I'd say no
14:24:20< dmacks> So scrap the "dist" column and the "version" subheading from the current layout?
14:24:34< akh> Yeah, I'd say so.
14:25:00< dmacks> (...and refight^Wfigure it out if/when we have to deal with multiple bindists?
14:25:15< akh> I've got an idea for the formatting for that.
14:25:40< akh> 2 rows and N columns per current binary table cell.
14:25:43< akh> N=#of bindists.
14:25:53< akh> upper row is the distribution version.
14:26:13< akh> wait--I'm confused. ;-)
14:26:26< akh> I'll put it on the wiki.
14:26:38< dmacks> The current 2-subcolumn approach was chosen to make it obvious that there are two kinds of "version" data.
14:27:42< akh> Right--I'll retain that.
14:28:18 * dmacks poises finger over reload-wiki-page button...
14:34:47-!- Albie [n=ambs@bl5-166-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
14:35:11< akh> OK--saved
14:35:36< akh> crap--lost my changes--1 sec
14:35:46< dmacks> Meanwhile /me reads Nobel announcements.
14:38:18< dmacks> Man, those geniuses who with the "new paradigm for all of science" on sci.chem and sci.physics got robbed again!
14:38:20< akh> heh
14:39:30-!- shres [n=sshreyas@59.92.136.115] has quit ["What can i do? I am just being me"]
14:43:21< akh> got it.
14:43:25< akh> http://wiki.opendarwin.org/index.php/Fink:Documentation_Jottings#New_multi-bindist_idea:
14:43:30< akh> (and I reformatted the reformatting idea)
14:43:31< dmacks> (after I formatted the formatting ideas format?)
14:43:38 * dmacks looks
14:43:41< akh> heh--that deserves a Certificate of Redundancy Certificate.
14:44:27< akh> Now that I think about it, though, maybe rotate the subcells in Binary by 90 deg.
14:44:39< dmacks> That gets us back exactly where we started no?
14:45:37< akh> hmm...yeah..
14:45:58< akh> It's probably better as is, then--it'd be approximately the same layout as for source.
14:46:33< dmacks> The current layout doesn't break or become messy if we add bindists or have different number of bindists  for different OS X versions.
14:46:43< dmacks> (just add new rows, not variable numbers of subcolumns)
14:47:01< akh> Good point.
14:47:26< akh> It's just those darn confused users!
14:48:10< akh> My other idea would be just to add rows within the binary column
14:48:22< dmacks> ?
14:48:38< akh> I'll draw it up.
14:49:29-!- Albie [n=ambs@bl5-166-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #fink
14:51:30-!- gnumac [n=gnumac@3-1-4-10a.gmt.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #fink
14:52:20< gnumac> Hi! Anyone succeded in compiling gnomemeeting?
14:52:45< gnumac> or to be correct pwlib-1.5.2
14:52:54< dmacks> Many people have, gnumac:) Not you, I'm guessing?
14:52:54< gnumac> No
14:53:38< gnumac> I get an error .   conflicting
14:53:38< gnumac>    types for `typedef int socklen_t'
14:54:23< dmacks> What's the full version you're using? 1.5.2-12?
14:54:32< gnumac> 1.5.2-12
14:55:05< gnumac> The errror comes from /sw/src/fink.build/pwlib-1.5.2-12/pwlib/include/ptlib/unix/ptlib/pmachdep.h:448:
14:55:58< akh> dmacks: http://wiki.opendarwin.org/index.php/Fink:Documentation_Jottings#Consolidated_bindist_column_idea is exactly what my second notion was.
14:56:15< dmacks> akh: heh:)
14:56:47< gnumac> I'll look it up Thanks
14:56:47< akh> (though I had the distro to the left :-) )
14:57:19< dmacks> gnumac: I don't have a Tiger machine handly to fix it:(
14:58:07< gnumac> That's to bad. I'll give it a try myself and see what I can do
14:58:51< dmacks> The solution is *probably* just removing that typedef line.
15:00:16< dmacks> akh: Shall we run it by -devel just so people don't think this change was made in a vacuum?
15:00:38< dmacks> (...after nuking the 0.9.0u row so people don't think we have a Sooper K3kr1t unstable bindist somewhere?
15:01:48-!- regeya [n=shane@65.171.234.176] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)]
15:03:20< gnumac> Sorry. I wasn't follow. Been occupied here with other stuff
15:04:10< dmacks> gnumac: Assuming you're on Tiger, "The solution is *probably* just removing that typedef line."
15:04:29< gnumac> I'll give it a try with removing the tydef and see what results. Other wise a post a meesage on the developerslist and later mai the maintainer
15:05:03-!- regeya [n=shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has joined #fink
15:05:31< dmacks> crap...msachs' build logs are gone.
15:08:30< rand-irc> night all
15:08:35< rand-irc> quit
15:08:39< rand-irc> .quit
15:08:40< rand-irc> er 
15:08:46< rand-irc> one more time
15:08:51< dmacks> heh
15:08:53-!- rand-irc [n=admin@216.129.208.116] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.g1m0.se/macirssi/"]
15:12:08< cirdan> heh
15:13:39-!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-0835392c9a10854b] has quit [SendQ exceeded]
15:16:31< dmacks> Fink's pwlib package is pretty old version too. We have 1.5.2, parent site has up to 1.9.2
15:17:07< newmanbe_> dmacks: You weren't supposed to let him quit!
15:17:16< newmanbe_> You should have made him bring FinkBot back first. ;)
15:17:20-!- newmanbe_ is now known as newmanbe
15:22:23-!- bmaret [n=user@MARETMACLT2.astro.lsa.umich.edu] has joined #fink
15:22:31< bmaret> hey folks
15:22:34< bmaret> does Fink 0.8.0 works with Panther ?
15:22:36< dmacks> bmaret: Probably not. (or if so, only by accident)
15:22:51< newmanbe> Probably not.
15:23:05< RangerRick> no, 0.7.x is for panther (darwin 7.x), 0.8.x is for tiger (darwin 8.x)
15:23:15< bmaret> ok
15:23:41< newmanbe> As the topic says. :)
15:24:11< RangerRick> right, but the "darwin x.x" makes it clearer that the version numbers are tied to the kernel number, and not necessarily that 0.7.x is old and 0.8.x is new and shiny  :)
15:24:36< newmanbe> RangerRick: But the packages are newer and shinier. :)
15:25:05< bmaret> newmanbe: sorry I've overlooked Fink website. It says to bootstrap from source with 0.6.1.
15:26:50< bmaret> This page looks outdated though. I can probably bootstrap with 0.7.2 no ?
15:27:13< dmacks> bmaret: What page exactly are you looking at?
15:27:26< dmacks> (yes, 0.7.2 bootstraps on 10.3)
15:27:31< bmaret> http://fink.sourceforge.net/download/10.3-upgrade.php?phpLang=en
15:27:43< bmaret> If you wish to do a fresh install of Fink on a 10.3 system...
15:28:10< dmacks> Yuck, that's ugly:/
15:31:36< bmaret> Yeah, this probably needs to be dropped from this page.
15:32:04< bmaret> And say something for 10.3 user on this one instead: http://fink.sourceforge.net/download/srcdist.php?phpLang=en
15:33:26< dmacks> the 10.3-upgrade.php can also lose the last sentence:)
15:33:59< bmaret> :-)
15:35:41-!- Albie [n=ambs@bl5-166-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:35:54-!- sid77 [n=sid77@host-84-222-60-75.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has quit ["http://slackintosh.workaround.ch/"]
15:39:47< gnumac> Just removing line 448 doesn't help. The seem to more to this than my skills can handle at the moment
15:40:13< dmacks> gnumac: There's socklen_t definitions scattered all over the pwlib sources:(
15:40:56< dmacks> Ha! gnome bugzilla #317985
15:42:06< newmanbe> 317985? Wow. :)
15:43:26< RangerRick> dmacks: funny
15:44:40 * dmacks wonders why a pkg would declare GCC:3.3 and then explicitly use g++3
15:45:08< newmanbe> They both have the letter g and the number three in them; I don't see anything wrong. :-p
15:45:15< dmacks> Good point.
15:50:42 * newmanbe wonders if CVS can have a module named Attic!
15:50:48< newmanbe> It's a bug!
15:53:29< gnumac> TIme to sleep. Good night
15:54:02-!- gnumac [n=gnumac@3-1-4-10a.gmt.gbg.bostream.se] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:58:10< akh> dmacks: note all doc changes on the wiki--they won't get done by me for a while, but everybody will feel better.  ;-)
15:59:36< dmacks> Okay.
16:00:01 * akh has a poster to present in < 3 weeks so I'm supposed to be working on the analysis, text, layout, ...
16:00:50< dmacks> :)
16:00:53< newmanbe> In TeX of course. :)
16:00:56< akh> newmanbe: Not this time.  OO.org.
16:02:47 * akh is recycling a bunch of stuff.
16:02:47< cirdan> heh
16:02:52 * newmanbe goes to install 
16:02:55< akh> And I can even send the files to state offices. :-)
16:03:05< dmacks> w00t!
16:03:07< newmanbe> LaTeX on his NetBSD computer.
16:04:43-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has quit ["leaving"]
16:09:24< akh> fun
16:09:42< newmanbe> If I can find which package it is in. :)
16:16:10< akh> tetex-something
16:17:05< newmanbe> Yeah, there's a bunch though. :)
16:17:47-!- spiral [n=spiral@laf31-2-82-224-249-43.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:19:40-!- spiral [n=spiral@laf31-2-82-224-249-43.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #fink
16:24:33-!- nnutter [n=nathan@12-221-179-60.client.insightBB.com] has joined #fink
16:28:43-!- regeya [n=shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
16:36:22< lisppaste> dmacks pasted "PatchScript hack for pwlib: please test on tiger" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/12284
16:37:50-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pool-70-22-58-73.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #fink
16:38:46-!- nnutter [n=nathan@12-221-179-60.client.insightBB.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
16:39:44-!- nnutter [n=nathan@12-221-179-60.client.insightBB.com] has joined #fink
16:41:55< dmacks> Wow, pwlib is seriously borked.
16:45:48-!- regeya [n=shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has joined #fink
16:48:46-!- nnutter [n=nathan@12-221-179-60.client.insightBB.com] has quit []
16:48:56< dmacks> !seen drm
16:48:57< Melian> i haven't seen 'drm', dmacks
16:49:18< newmanbe> As long as you aren't looking for msachs...
16:49:21< dmacks> cirdan: her back end seems to have crashed.
16:49:39< newmanbe> !lart not working bots
16:49:40 * Melian slams not working bots against a large cement Tux
16:49:49< newmanbe> !unstable
16:50:37< newmanbe> 'tis broken.
16:50:38< newmanbe> Not that we didn't trust your diagnosis dmacks. :)
17:05:46-!- hennker_ [i=flullup@dslb-084-063-002-045.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["leaving"]
17:06:26-!- RangerRick is now known as RangerAway
17:11:45-!- Melian [n=blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["adios amigos"]
17:12:35-!- Melian [n=blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink
17:13:20< akh> !unstable
17:13:20< Melian> methinks unstable is http://www.finkproject.org/faq/usage-fink.php#unstable , or at http://www.finkproject.org/faq/usage-fink.php#bindist
17:14:05-!- JesseW [n=chatzill@pdpc/supporter/student/JesseW] has joined #fink
17:14:06< cirdan> !lilosmite akh
17:14:06 * Melian wallops akh with a main rotation server that needs rehubbing.  It won't take long.
17:14:43< akh> Geez!  Just making sure she's OK.
17:15:05< akh> ;-)
17:15:05< cirdan> :-p
17:22:18< akh> gcc3.1?  WTF!
17:23:09-!- spiral [n=spiral@laf31-2-82-224-249-43.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
17:26:40< cirdan> heh
17:26:48< akh> Crap--box crashing.
17:27:02< cirdan> whee.
17:27:12< akh> Disk mount issue
17:27:20< akh> we hates it!
17:28:03< cirdan> hehe
17:30:17-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"]
17:30:24-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #fink
17:34:47-!- akh_ [n=akhansen@ldx4.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink
17:34:52< akh_> ugh
17:34:55< akh_> Stupid box
17:35:19-!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
17:35:23-!- akh_ is now known as akh
17:37:14< akh> dmacks: I can test pwlib later.  I need to install the Legacy Tools.
17:37:14< akh> (i.e. I don't want to roll my own gcc3.1 if I don't have to)
17:37:14< dmacks> heh:)
17:37:35< akh> Ug--my desktop box is still fscking....
17:37:42< akh> (in a good way)
17:42:54 * akh wonders what the hell I did.
17:42:54< dmacks> "fscking" as verb==okay, "fscking" as adjective/adverb==bad.
17:42:54< akh> yah
17:42:54< akh> I picked a bad week not to set up my mirrored raid array.
17:42:54< dmacks> Looks like I picked a bad week to stop sniffing glue.
17:42:54< akh> heh
17:43:05< akh> while I'm waiting to see what happens with the check, I guess I'll pick up XCode2.2-pre2, Tiger 8F35 and the Legacy Tools for my laptop.
17:48:09< akh> OK--why do Apple's own dmgs trigger Safari "this may contain an application" warnings?
17:48:09< dmacks> while I'm waiting for the heat death of the universe, I'll download some MSOffice updates.
17:48:09-!- cmeme [n=cmeme@boa.b9.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:48:09< akh> ewww
17:48:09 * akh would rather compile oo.org
17:48:09< akh> 3x a week.
17:48:28-!- cmeme [n=cmeme@boa.b9.com] has joined #fink
17:51:22-!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx4.psfc.mit.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
17:52:22-!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink
17:55:34< akh> urg--/me is not having a good tech day.
18:01:02< akh> OK--gotta run.  I've got pwlib building on my PowerBook 
18:01:05< dmacks> cool thanks
18:03:15< akh> No problem--answers will be revealed in ~2 hrs.
18:03:30< akh> (when next I have connectivity)
18:03:30-!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has quit []
18:03:38< dmacks> righto:)
18:10:26-!- slyrus [n=slyrus@flypaper.BDGP.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:17:53-!- bmaret [n=user@MARETMACLT2.astro.lsa.umich.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:00:16-!- JesseW [n=chatzill@pdpc/supporter/student/JesseW] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]"]
19:01:05-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has quit ["leaving"]
19:38:22-!- slyrus [n=slyrus@flypaper.BDGP.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #fink
19:42:51-!- michal_ [n=michal@dsl-58-6-123-9.qld.westnet.com.au] has joined #fink
19:43:31< michal_> hi. is there an mtr-nox (like for nmap) or mtr-tiny (like under debian) which doesn't require gtk et al ?
20:03:12-!- driftkop [n=driftkop@user-0c8hrl3.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #fink
20:11:05-!- slyrus [n=slyrus@flypaper.BDGP.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:24:30-!- driftkop [n=driftkop@user-0c8hrl3.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Client exiting"]
20:25:20-!- TheSin [n=TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has joined #fink
20:45:00-!- TheSin [n=TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has quit ["Client exiting"]
21:00:54-!- beniamino [n=ben@adsl-68-123-122-243.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #fink
21:28:45-!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink
21:30:16-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pool-70-22-58-73.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #fink
21:30:32-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"]
21:30:32-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #fink
21:30:52-!- cmeme [n=cmeme@boa.b9.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:32:03-!- cmeme [n=cmeme@boa.b9.com] has joined #fink
21:37:11< lisppaste> akh annotated #12284 with "no such luck" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/12284#1
21:38:08< akh> (pwlib didn't work :-( )
21:46:27-!- gopherd [n=irclogge@tor/session/x-217d036a3f6f039b] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:46:27-!- Clef__ [n=Clef@69-167-25-3.stmnca.adelphia.net] has left #fink ["Bye"]
21:54:58< dmacks> akh: Well, um...it appears to have solved the problem I was targetting:/
21:55:55 * dmacks throws up hands.
21:58:54 * newmanbe throws dmacks' feet down and stretches him.
22:02:30-!- dmacks is now known as dmacks_away
22:04:38-!- megahal [i=foobar@ip-246-036.oberlin.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:05:01< akh> dmacks_away:  ah, well
22:05:25< akh> newmanbe:  I didn't think I was in one of _those_ channels. ;-)
22:05:46< newmanbe> akh: He's not tall enough to be in the in crowd.
22:06:03< akh> ah
22:15:19< akh> What's the restriction?
22:20:47< RangerAway> dmacks_away: libftw0 worked fine, new apt in my exp uses it
22:24:12-!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:24:57< RangerAway> dmacks_away: hrm, my bad, actually, I hadn't tried on 10.4 since adding the dep on libftw0
22:25:13< RangerAway> guess ftw0 will be 10.3 only?
22:31:43< michal_> hi. is there an mtr-nox (like for nmap) or mtr-tiny (like under debian) which doesn't require gtk et al ?
22:35:58-!- dmacks_away is now known as dmacks
22:36:57< dmacks> RangerAway: rumor has it that the ftw in Tiger is busted. And using our own on all platforms minimizes us screwing up when we copy .info files between dists:)
22:37:50< dmacks> michal_: I don't see one in fink at this time.
22:38:26< RangerAway> dmacks: well it doesn't build on tiger  :)
22:38:30< dmacks> Oh d'oh:/
22:38:39< RangerAway> 's why I assumed it was for 10.3 only
22:38:40< RangerAway> heh
22:39:05< dmacks> Well um, like I said, it's only for 10.3, because Tiger has it built in so we should just use that one.
22:39:17< RangerAway> haha
22:39:33< dmacks> (wot's wrong?)
22:39:42< RangerAway> building again for an error, just a sec
22:40:33< lisppaste> RangerRick pasted "ftw build failure" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/12289
22:40:43< dmacks> michal_: The mtr maintainer is quite busy with Real Life right now, but if you know how to build some other variant of mtr you could submit it yourself.
22:40:54< RangerAway> going to bed though, so if you've got an update, let me know in an e-mail or something and I'll try it
22:41:10< dmacks> 'k
22:41:17-!- RLD_osx [n=rldempse@66-190-76-181.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:41:17< michal_> dmacks: i'll have to see how the osx and debian mtr packages differ first. maybe it'll be simple (crosses fingers)
22:42:49< dmacks> michal_: Okay. It *could* be as simple as passing a flag like --without-gtk to ./configure.
22:51:44< dmacks> "Thanks Apple for shuffling the /usr/include/*.h web of includes!"
22:53:57-!- drm [n=drm@ip68-108-245-119.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #fink
22:57:29< dmacks> drm: I don't *think* package "fink" needs 'make' to install its .deb.
22:57:44< drm> i don't think so either, but we gotta be careful about what goes in the postinstall script
22:57:54< dmacks> yeah
22:58:19< drm> i think the big problem max's friend had was attempting an rsync update without the dev tools... we should prevent that
22:58:27< dmacks> Yeah yeah
22:59:02< drm> i know for a fact that this was all possible two or three years ago, cause i tested it once :)
23:02:20< dmacks> So 'fink selfupdate' method!=point and phase_compile should barf if no dev-tools?
23:04:13< drm> well...at the point that folks get to choose their update method, if they attempt to choose rsync or cvs without the dev tools they should be prevented (with instructions to install the dev tools if they want to change it)
23:04:18< drm> or something like that
23:04:29< dmacks> Yup.
23:04:50< dmacks> Also have to block the actual selfupdate in case they edit fink.conf
23:05:17< drm> yeah
23:06:06< dmacks> I guess Services::have_dev_tools should check for /usr/bin/make and /usr/bin/gcc? Any other standard and critical stuff
23:06:39< drm> that should be a good test for whether they're installed or not
23:07:03< drm> we also don't want to try to create the gcc virtual pkgs unless there is a gcc
23:07:45< dmacks> ?
23:07:54< dmacks> Hold on...lemme finish cvs-updating..........
23:08:35< drm> wasn't that another of the problems? either in virtal pkgs or in checking which version of gcc in bootstrap.pm... max's friend was getting an error there, which i think is caused by assuming there is some gcc (in the code)
23:09:35< dmacks> Ah yeah...sounded like there was a hash of 'all installed gcc pkgs' that wasn't getting pre-defined to an empty set or somesuch.
23:13:52< dmacks> Should we have Services::have_devtools or a dev-tools virtual pkg? Former is easier quick-hack, latter is more forward-looking and general if we ever get an actual Receipts (or other .pkg) handler.
23:16:23< drm> yeah...forward-loooking sounds good to me
23:17:17-!- shres [n=sshreyas@59.92.151.222] has joined #fink
23:19:14< drm> good
23:19:22< drm> night
23:19:28-!- drm [n=drm@ip68-108-245-119.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:19:28< dmacks> ta
23:31:54< shres> Mornin guys
23:34:05< dmacks> hello shres
23:34:38< shres> dmacks: hey, not morning for you i presume 
23:34:47< dmacks> nope:)
23:44:47< asari> shres: hi
23:45:05< shres> asari: hey
23:45:33< asari> I just took a look at package-ooo ;)
23:45:38< shres> asari: sorry been hooked up with some evo work. So havent been able to find out too much about ooo-build
23:45:44< shres> asari: cool :-)
23:47:20< asari> fink users complain that "too much disk space needed!",.. but
23:48:00< asari> now I guess --disable-epm is the answer.
23:48:56< shres> yeah, also --system-mozilla should be imperative, but i guess u do that already
23:49:20< asari> yeah.
23:50:35< shres> does epm take up so much space ?
23:50:43< asari> I'm not sure, but
23:51:11< asari> --with-lang=ALL will create ALL language packs, and ALL language installation set which is completely no need for us.
23:51:51< asari> can't we prevent that by --disable-epm? 
23:51:59< shres> oh, right. Did u have a chat with pmladek ? He his an expert in such stuff
23:52:21< asari> not yet
23:52:55< shres> also there are a lot of modules you dont need to build
23:52:59< asari> for example?
23:53:01< shres> which can just be taken off the build.lst
23:53:01< shres> binfilter
23:53:01< asari> hm.
23:53:02 * shres does not remember properly
23:53:26< shres> that module has binary filters to some old staroffice formats which nobody uses, so all linux distro's just dont build it
23:54:02< shres> also i remember we dont build dictionaries, we build ooo with myspell
23:54:50< asari> interesting...
23:55:22-!- regeya [n=shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
23:56:03< shres> if u have a rpm, deb based box somewhere. Just get one of the packages and see its size. That would give u a fair indication of whether they are good, bad or ugly
23:56:11< shres> linux box i mean
23:57:58-!- regeya [n=shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has joined #fink
23:58:01< asari> my main interest is on compile-time disk consumption, not on install-time, anyway.. 
23:58:07< asari> currently.
23:59:35< shres> ah, ok. Not building module should help then
--- Log closed Thu Oct 06 00:00:20 2005

.