--- Log opened Tue Oct 04 00:00:18 2005
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04:09:58< shres> asari: when i try to build i get a checking for main in -ldb... no
04:10:08< shres> i have libdb-4.3 installed
04:10:24< shres> it identifies that but says configure: error: db not installed or functional
04:10:26< asari> yes, you have to include the path
04:10:33< shres> any idea ?
04:10:43< shres> LD_LIBRARY_PATH ?
04:10:47< asari> no
04:11:08< asari> maybe LDFLAGS or SOLAR_LIBS
04:11:22< asari> take a look at my build script, anyway.
04:11:59< asari> shres:
04:12:00< asari> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/fink/experimental/asari/openoffice.org.info?rev=1.16&view=markup
04:12:02< asari> here.
04:12:56< asari> hmm, seems I set CPPGLAGS on configure phase.
04:13:11< asari> SetCPPFLAGS: -I%p/include/db4 is that.
04:13:30< shres> hmmm.. that should be it
04:13:49< asari> and, I add -L%p/lib into SOLARLIB .
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04:28:05< asari> shres: don't you have any questions?
04:28:26< asari> if not so far, I'm going to go swimming ;)
04:30:00< shres> nah, i get some checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables now
04:30:28< shres> this reminds me of some error i got while building evo. Will read ur build script that should help
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07:17:15< akh> Why do people think that the _last_ lines of a build contains relevant information, rather than the lines that say *ERROR*?!!!!
07:20:34< newmanbe> XML? Shame on you. ;)
07:20:48< akh> Sorry--fink doc training.
07:20:55< akh> :-)
07:21:47< akh> Answering my own question: I guess it'
07:21:47< newmanbe> Might want to reword that before you put it in the docs. ;)
07:21:54< akh> heh
07:22:14< akh> I guess the problem is that "make" says "Error" when it terminates abnormally.
07:22:28< newmanbe> Sue FSF!
07:22:38< newmanbe> Faulty software.
07:22:50< newmanbe> Nevermind the disclaimer of warrenty.
07:23:10< akh> I think their butts are covered by that. :-)
07:24:02< akh> Maybe all compilers need to force people to read a little manual before their first build.
07:24:38< akh> Or, better yet, that could be coded into fink somehow.
07:25:11 * akh doesn'
07:25:15< akh> oops
07:25:38 * akh doesn't really think that this would help, of course. ;-)
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07:47:19< akh> meh--silly buildconflict code.
07:48:47< akh> Though in this case it did something sensible, as I was building a package that required qt3-dev and one that build conflicted with it.
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11:02:35< spiral> hi
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11:19:51< akh> Looks like a quiet day so far other than my rantings. :-)
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11:38:33< RangerRick> :)
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13:11:38< akh> It's quiet....too quiet.
13:11:45 * akh waits for a bombshell.
13:15:44< rand-irc> rather
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13:29:35< cirdan> hmm
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13:38:05< rand> did i miss anything?
13:38:36< Albie> rand, yes. cirdan said: 'hmm'
13:38:42< rand> damn
13:38:51< akh> hehe
13:38:52< rand> i would have liked to be here for that..
13:38:55< rand> oh well
13:38:56< Albie> :)
13:39:00< rand> mayhaps next time
13:39:15< akh> Maybe He'll do it again.
13:39:24< akh> (excuse extra cap)
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13:40:16< rand> heh
13:40:28< rand> we just doubled the amount of text in this log file for today :)
13:40:38< akh> w00t!
13:41:16< Albie> LOL
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15:05:07< rand> ltr all
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15:05:57< dmacks> RangerRick: I've got a dinky libftw pkg ready to go if you don't want to drag it into your apt.patch
15:06:41 * dmacks tested it and the apt builds.
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15:26:04< Uchiha> I just fink installed bundle-gnome on my mac, how do I start gnome?
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15:29:01< gnumac> Hi! Has anyone succeded in installing gnomemeeting?
15:30:49< gecko2> Uchiha: fink info bundle-gnome <-- read that
15:31:01< gnumac> Thanks
15:31:03< Uchiha> :0!
15:31:08< Uchiha> :D
15:31:11< gnumac> I'll try theat out
15:31:24< gecko2> Uchiha: there is a description for that =)
15:31:59< gecko2> gnumac: haven't tried
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15:34:25< Uchiha> ok
15:34:29< Uchiha> That worked
15:34:31< Uchiha> thanks
15:37:49< RangerRick> dmacks: sure, I'll give it a shot
15:42:45< dmacks> It's in my exp/finkinfo/libftw0.* (it would go in libs/, or base/ if it is used for apt)
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15:49:05< dmacks> Clef__: Your pyorbit2-pyXX installs files that contain hardcoded build paths.
15:51:12< Uchiha> How come I can't start gnome when using the xterm in X11.app?
15:51:45< dmacks> How are you trying to do that? Usually gnome is started from .xinitrc, not manually from xterm...
15:52:05< Uchiha> I say /sw/bin/gnome-session from an xterm
15:56:49< dmacks> What happens when you do that?
15:58:03< dmacks> (Also, what version of gnome-session are you using?)
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16:23:14< newmanbe> dmacks: I should fix the gopher package compiling against Apple's ncurses by making a system-ncurses packge. ;)
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16:27:52< seebs> I have what may be a stupid question about fink's default setup.
16:27:57< seebs> Why does fink install a new version of tar?
16:29:26< newmanbe> Because we don't trust Apple. :)
16:30:16< seebs> The problem being that, on 10.4, fink installs a version of tar that breaks resource fork handling, by not having any.
16:30:21< seebs> And puts it in front of the standard path.
16:30:28< newmanbe> You can change that.
16:31:07< seebs> Well, I can remove /sw/bin/tar. :) I think if there's a desire to have a known-function gnutar in $PATH, it should be installed as gtar or gnutar to avoid the clash.
16:31:36< RangerRick> not a bad idea, for 10.4 at least
16:31:59< RangerRick> I don't believe we have anywhere that relies on /sw/bin/tar existing, although I couldn't say for sure
16:32:24< seebs> I was doing a writeup on backup strategies, and I figure, any time I have to say "by the way, this obvious and straightforward procedure won't work if you've installed ", I worry.
16:32:27< RangerRick> seebs: could you e-mail fink-core@lists.sourceforge.net about it? I know I don't have time to look into it at the moment, don't want to get lost in the shuffle
16:32:39< seebs> Will do.
16:32:49< RangerRick> thanks
16:35:00< dmacks> seebs: fink uses /sw/bin/tar explicitly when unpacking source tarballs.
16:35:17< dmacks> (...if that file is present)
16:35:52< seebs> 'k.
16:37:18< dmacks> I wonder if some old OS X didn't come with 'tar'? At this time, the tar package is "essential" meaning you can't even remove it using fink/dpkg/apt.
16:38:18< RangerRick> I think old OSX used a crappy old tar that was buggy
16:38:23< dmacks> Although several of us advocate reducing our reliance on fink-supplied versions of things that apple has when we are sure apple's is sufficient. Maybe we've just never agreed that it *is* sufficient?
16:38:34< RangerRick> like, sun full-path-can't-be-longer-than-100-characters buggy
16:38:45< dmacks> Ahh. That sounds a bit familiar.
16:39:56< RangerRick> I guess technically that's not a bug, the over-100-char thing was a GNU extension, but it's pretty much accepted that not having it is crap nowadays :)
16:40:40 * dmacks sees several pkgs that exceed that limit.
16:41:11< RangerRick> yeah
16:41:50< seebs> I think POSIX canonically supports it.
16:42:04< seebs> Hmm. POSIX tar goes up to 250 characters.
16:42:11< seebs> (At least the format does.)
16:42:40< RangerRick> well, darwin originally came from 4.4BSDlite, it's not unlikely that they had a pre-posix tar, or some other such silly crap
16:43:01< seebs> It's based on NeXTStep, I think they've had GNU tar since '88 or so.
16:43:08< RangerRick> hm, then I dunno
16:43:33< seebs> Anyway, I sent in a mail about it, with a couple of possible general solutions, all gratuitously complicated.
16:43:50< seebs> There's no really good way to handle the possibility that the host OS provides, say, bunzip2, but that the provided version is unreliable.
16:43:52< dmacks> The only reason dpkg doesn't hardcode /sw/bin/tar is because I didn't understand how dpkg searched for a 'tar' executable:)
16:44:26< seebs> Would it be bad for dpkg to just call it 'gtar', and not install the 'tar' name for the file? You've got gtar already.
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16:45:09< dmacks> That would work for dpkg, yes.
16:46:26< dmacks> Our general thought is that we rely on the base system being functionally equivalient to certain OS X versions. So if /usr/bin/tar (or /usr/bin/gnutar) is acceptible starting in 10.3 we can prolly drop fink's tar package as being essential.
16:46:45< dmacks> Then if one installs it, it's one's own fault:)
16:46:58< dmacks> OTOH, why don't we just patch our tar pkg to respect rsrc?
16:47:24< dmacks> (and rsync and whatever other pkgs apple has tweaked)
16:47:38< seebs> Well, the main issue there is duplication of effort. I know of bugs in the OS X tar's handling of some files, and then you could have the 10.5 problem be "apple tar handles BSD flags, fink doesn't" or whatever.
16:47:59< seebs> Since you're both using GNU tar 1.14, it's not clear why there's a need for a fink-tar at all.
16:48:00< seebs> Oooh.
16:48:22< seebs> There's a notion; if something is already in $PATH, install it as /sw/bin/fink-x.
16:48:31< seebs> e.g., /sw/bin/fink-tar, /sw/bin/fink-bunzip2.
16:48:55 * dmacks barfs twice
16:49:15< seebs> It's ugly, but it eliminates clashes.
16:49:18 * newmanbe thinks that is silly.
16:49:23< newmanbe> It would require a lot more work.
16:49:34< seebs> As is, every time the host OS updates anything, you run the risk of your versions clashing.
16:49:49< newmanbe> If someone *really* doesn't want to use what is installed with fink, you have the person specifying the complete path.
16:49:53< dmacks> That's *very* hard logic to implement consistently. No, we are always certain our version "wins".
16:49:56< seebs> I suppose another alternative would just be to put /sw/bin AFTER $PATH.
16:50:23< seebs> I dunno. So far, out of one times when the behavior has been different, fink's has been broken one times. That's a 100% loss rate. :p
16:50:33 * newmanbe , as a general rule, usually conciders anything from Apple 'broken'.
16:50:41< dmacks> If the name of an executable isn't constant, then it's hard to figure out how to explicitly access fink's.
16:51:01< seebs> Well, /sw/bin/$FOO seems to be safe enough.
16:51:18< seebs> FWIW, I love fink, I just want it to step on my existing environment less.
16:51:47< dmacks> (/me talking about /sw/bin/fink-tar iff another tar exists)
16:51:48< newmanbe> I think your scripts are broken if they don't specify the complete path. :-p
16:52:11 * newmanbe actually doesn't, but this will make him think more when he is making shell scripts.
16:52:39< seebs> Well, my scripts generally do PATH=/bin:/usr/bin up at the top just to be sure.
16:53:10< dmacks> The same problem really exists for all things where fink has the same name (executable, library, header) file as something in the system.
16:53:14< seebs> What bit me was that I was doing testing on resource fork handling, and I was totally stumped when tar's resource fork handling suddenly went away.
16:53:28< seebs> It took me a while to realize that fink installed a version of tar.
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16:55:05< dmacks> (...and the general solution has been "either invoke the whole fink world, or don't; if not, invoke specific pieces using explicit pathnames and hope they don't require other things")
16:55:05< newmanbe> !woot
16:55:50< newmanbe> Melian?
16:55:52< seebs> Yeah, I think that makes sense. Well, I'll try the obvious experiment; I've changed init.sh to use append_path instead of prepend_path for everything.
16:55:53< newmanbe> !test
16:56:11< dmacks> One reason some parts of fink and its tools hardcode paths is precisely so one does *not* need to have the whole fink setup active (/sw/bin in $PATH)
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16:57:17< seebs> Seems reasonable enough.
16:58:00< dmacks> As new and functionally sufficient things get added to /usr/bin, we could stop hardcoding, but "apple's was broken" suggests "and it could be again in the future", so some are reluctant to undo it.
16:59:21< seebs> Hmm. I'd be better able to understand that if I had a concrete example of Apple's being broken. I have yet to have problems with their gzip/bzip2/tar stuff.
17:00:21< dmacks> Fink has existed since at least 10.1...lots of things were broken or missing on a base install or non-standardly-named back then.
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17:02:43< dmacks> As a concrete example, bzip2 was a relatively recent addition to Apple's distro.
17:02:47< seebs> Fair enough, I didn't do very much back in the 10.1 days.
17:03:56< dmacks> Those commands are all in the BSD pkg on 10.3. /me can't remember if that's an essential install or not, or if fink states it as a requirement for bindist usage.
17:06:24< dmacks> Anyway, /me -> dinner. Maybe core can come to a consensus. For the first time ever.
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19:10:37< pixelfairy> whats a good browser for x11?
19:10:48< pixelfairy> dillo is cool, but not quite firefox
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