--- Log opened Wed Sep 28 00:00:13 2005
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00:09:53-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis
00:09:53-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005]
00:09:53[Users #fink]
00:09:53[ Airo     ] [ cmeme   ] [ gopherd_    ] [ mcp     ] [ pnorman   ] [ TheMystic] 
00:09:53[ args     ] [ Darien  ] [ gzl         ] [ mdmonk_ ] [ pogma     ] [ usataway ] 
00:09:53[ asari    ] [ das_    ] [ htodd_      ] [ megahal ] [ rand-irc  ] [ zorton   ] 
00:09:53[ BleedAway] [ emp     ] [ jack-       ] [ Melian  ] [ RangerAway] 
00:09:53[ brendan  ] [ eno-away] [ JosephSpiros] [ muesli  ] [ RLD_osx   ] 
00:09:53[ cirdan   ] [ Erik____] [ kane-xs     ] [ Murr    ] [ runelind  ] 
00:09:53[ Clef     ] [ gecko2  ] [ KraMer      ] [ newmanbe] [ spundun   ] 
00:09:53[ cls      ] [ gopherd ] [ lisppaste   ] [ nnutter ] [ swix_     ] 
00:09:53-!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 43 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 43 normal]
00:09:53-!- [freenode-info] Welcome Tor users! Please stop by #tor to compare notes and to report any freenode Tor problems.
00:09:53-!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug  3 17:57:20 2003
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02:09:45-!- mode/#fink [+o Clef] by ChanServ
02:09:53-!- mode/#fink [-o Clef] by Clef
02:10:17< Clef> megahal: hi
02:10:18< megahal> Clef: Hi i am vomitting in your ass.
02:10:25< Clef> ouch
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02:38:04< gambl0r> ive just installed fink, updated it and tried both the binary and source install of mozilla which both install/compile fine but when i run it, it errors
02:39:21< gambl0r> /sw/bin/mozilla: line 62: 20819 Bus error                      $MOZ_PROGRAM ${1+"#@"}
02:39:56< gambl0r> im running 10.4.2
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07:17:47< muesli> is there a static version of libstdc++.6 for os xß
07:17:48< muesli> ?
07:19:24< newmanbe> No idea.
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07:48:58< muesli> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
07:49:00< muesli> I HATE APPLE
07:49:00< muesli> I HATE APPLE
07:49:00< muesli> I HATE APPLE
07:53:57< JosephSpiros> That's nice
07:54:03< JosephSpiros> Next time use pastebot ;p
07:54:14< muesli> lol
07:54:49< muesli> so, let's see which apple store i'm going to attack today
07:54:53< muesli> bomb? check
07:54:58< muesli> terrorist outfit? check
07:55:03< muesli> let's go
07:57:58< gambl0r> dont forget your beret
07:58:55< muesli> gambl0r: thanks, almost forgot it
08:02:55< akh> so why the violence?
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08:20:54< euthydemus> I am having a shared library package problem. Is anyone around?
08:21:38< akh> I'll try.
08:21:47< euthydemus> thanks
08:22:09< euthydemus> I keep getting that the move fails but I can't see why
08:23:54< akh> Generally mv fails because of an earlier failure--the file/directory that mv can't find never gets created because the automated build setup moves on to the next phase.
08:24:20< euthydemus> I think I just saw something
08:24:39< akh> That's a start, anyway.
08:25:10< euthydemus> The libs are there but fink is looking for libVCPList-* and the libs in there are libVCPList.*
08:25:32< euthydemus> I will check my info file - sorry
08:26:15< akh> ah--I misunderstood what you meant initially. 
08:26:31< euthydemus> Its okay
08:26:52< euthydemus> Sometimes asking is the best way to see what you are doing wrong yourself:)
08:27:01< akh>  Yup.
08:27:30< euthydemus> I think I copied the shared lib bit from another lib that uses the hyphen and I just didn't notice
08:28:48< euthydemus> Package looks good! - that's better:)
08:29:22< akh> Yeah, having the right filename helps.  ;-)
08:30:45< euthydemus> Sure does
08:34:30-!- RangerAway is now known as RangerRick
08:35:51< rand-irc> morn rr
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08:39:25< Pres-Gas> Hey all
08:40:11< Pres-Gas> does the rdiff-backup package support ACL's and resource forks?
08:41:05< Pres-Gas> I see on the project's page that there are two libraries that one needs and they are not available, so I wondered if it was part of the package.
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08:41:17< akh> Good question.
08:42:19< akh> I'd guess that our package _doesn't_ support them then.  What libraries are those?
08:43:04< Pres-Gas> akh http://pylibacl.sourceforge.net/  and http://pyxattr.sourceforge.net/
08:43:49< akh> Ah.  Maybe the maintainer could be persuaded to port those.
08:44:18< Pres-Gas> yeah, gonna search for the maintainer now
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08:48:08< RangerRick> Pres-Gas: I would seriously doubt they work, since extended attributes and acl's are a function of the OS and the filesystem
08:48:27< akh> Ah
08:48:51< RangerRick> it would take real development to make them understand OSX's extended attributes, I would guess, unless apple bothered to put in a bridge API mimicking freebsd's extended attribute support
08:49:05< RangerRick> #opendarwin might be a good place to ask, if anyone knows kernel internals, it would be in there
08:51:20< Pres-Gas> RangerRick, there seems to be support according to the main rdiff-backup homepage:  http://www.nongnu.org/rdiff-backup/index.html
08:51:49< RangerRick> well then there you go  :)
08:51:54< Pres-Gas> lol
08:52:13< akh> That makes it easy, then.
08:52:18< RangerRick> I was just talking about extended attributes in general, sounsd like the python stuff talks to osx's extended attribute bits then
08:52:25< Pres-Gas> yeah, I am not a coder, so I am not sure exactly what those py libs are doing, but the claims are there
08:52:35< Pres-Gas> mayhap, RangerRick 
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09:54:01< runelind> what the h?
09:54:12< runelind> I can perform nslookups successfully
09:54:14< runelind> but I can't ping out
09:54:17< akh> hmm
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09:58:12< runelind> seems to only be from my mac too
09:58:23< runelind> just says unknown host
09:58:43< baba> hm todai team is making an interesting system
10:01:28< akh> runelind: strange
10:01:37< akh> baba: what are they doing?
10:02:27< baba> they are making an amazon-like system for fink
10:02:41< akh> 1-click package install?
10:02:42< baba> in which users can exchange info about the packages
10:02:46< baba> yep
10:02:55< akh> Oh.  ;-)
10:03:40-!- regeya [n=shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has joined #fink
10:03:45< baba> it has one click install, amazon like information exchage and many other features
10:05:40-!- HenkPoley [n=henk@poley.xs4all.nl] has joined #fink
10:05:48< akh> Nice.  Hopefully they won't be saving credit card numbers.  :-)
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10:36:22< dmacks> *grr*...libxml2 doesn't wanna play nice:(
10:37:48< akh> And this surprises you?
10:38:55 * dmacks had expected better in this particular eensy-weensy specific aspect.
10:39:11 * dmacks should know better
10:39:20< dmacks> ...than to expect better:(
10:39:50< akh> Always expect the worst.  That way you're never disappointed.
10:40:36< dmacks> If I lower the bar any further, I'm liable to stub my toe when I step over it.
10:41:21< akh> heh
10:54:39< euthydemus> What do I do if I have had a package waiting for review for a couple of months
10:55:24< euthydemus> I am not upset I just don't know what to expect
10:56:49< akh> euthydemus: has anybody given feedback yet?
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11:14:08< dmacks> What package, euthydemus?
11:14:30 * dmacks uncovers Yet Another SF Tracker Bug while looking for it.
11:15:19< akh> Put it on the tracker bug bug tracker. ;-)
11:16:25 * dmacks wonders how long until I consume my SF subscription fee in bandwidth complaining about their bugs.
11:17:16< lisppaste> akh pasted "from http://www.rinkworks.com/stupid/cs_viruses.shtml" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/12048
11:17:53< akh> dmacks: heh
11:21:28< akh> "Do you sell Mac OS X for Windows?"
11:22:07< dmacks> haha
11:23:30< lisppaste> akh annotated #12048 with "We could have it worse" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/12048#1
11:24:09< dmacks> That computer-stupidities site is great:)
11:24:32< akh> Yup--/me just happened to find my bookmark.
11:25:05< euthydemus> Sorry I was away dealing with the kids
11:25:14< dmacks> np:)
11:25:19< euthydemus> the Package is minc
11:25:44< dmacks> Ahh...I see it...
11:25:45< euthydemus> Last feedback was put it under undergoing validation
11:26:37< euthydemus> It was accepted by darwinports for what that is worth:)
11:26:47< akh> That's not worth much here.  ;-)
11:27:44< euthydemus> I have about six packages that use it and they are building against it fine as well
11:27:54< dmacks> I wish fink -m automatically saved the fink output.
11:29:04 * dmacks damn tired of '|& tee -i out;less out;oh damn I was root and forgot to chmod a+r out;oh damn now I've overwritten it with the output from a different build'
11:30:39< akh> dmacks:  like RangerRick's KDE build output?
11:32:09< dmacks> Yeah! But embedded in fink itself so it doesn't have permissions problems.
11:32:13< akh> Right.
11:32:42< akh> euthydemus: Ah--looks like somebody needs to take a look at it.
11:32:58< dmacks> euthydemus: If you pass --disable-dependency-tracking in ConfigureParams, the compile will go faster.
11:33:05< euthydemus> Does it have a problem
11:33:17< euthydemus> Okay I can add that
11:33:20< dmacks> akh: /me is looking right now:)
11:33:45< akh> dmacks: and you're somebody. :-)
11:34:37< euthydemus> Why doesn't fink -m work for me?
11:35:18< euthydemus> I see it in the man page
11:36:48< dmacks> 'fink -m' (note: not 'fink list -m' or some other subcommand) isn't in fink-0.24.x I don't think.
11:37:20 * dmacks uses development version of 'fink'...it'll be in fink-0.25
11:38:00< dmacks> InstallScript is trying to install manpages directly in %p (should install them into %i).
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11:59:45< dmacks> Other stuff needs fixing too.../me updates tracker item.
12:02:30< euthydemus> Good to know
12:02:35< euthydemus> Thanks for the update
12:03:29< euthydemus> Shouldn't manpages be installed with --mandir=%p/share/man?
12:03:39< dmacks> (I'm pretty sure fink-0.24.x has a --build-as-nobody flag, that causes fink to crash if it tries to write directly to %p)
12:04:33< dmacks> Files are destined for %p, but you write them to %i (think of %i as a tarball, which fink later expands into %p)
12:05:40< euthydemus> So its --mandir=%i/share/man?
12:06:08< dmacks> That might work. There are two other solutions given in the tracker item...
12:06:18< euthydemus> Thanks
12:07:03< dmacks> You're welcome
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12:39:11 * akh needs to stop breaking my imap server
12:39:45< rand-irc> that's a good idea
12:40:24< akh> :-)
12:40:55 * rudy__ stabs mathematica for not giving him the answer he wants
12:41:39< akh> 42
12:42:21< rudy__> akh: unfortunately i'm dumb at math so my brain can't get the local maxima and minimas that produce the loops i want :\
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12:43:00< akh> Ah
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12:43:45< rudy__> stupid polar graphs
12:44:02< Gardner> Cold, are they? ;-)
12:46:49< dmacks> RangerRick: How do you feel about -m (or some new flag, --log maybe?) automatically saving a transcript of fink package-building in /tmp/fink-build-log_%n-%v-%r_$date-$time ?
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12:54:14< dmacks> (I guess --log, which is also implied by -m)
12:54:17< RangerRick> dmacks: sounds good to me, although you need to add `id -u -n`
12:54:33< RangerRick> perms issues with multiuser otherwise, possibly
12:54:50< RangerRick> but yeah, I've been wanting to look into really capturing all output nicely
12:54:53< RangerRick> with IPC::Open3
12:55:12< RangerRick> never got around to looking into it
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12:59:25< dmacks> Because it would come from fin kitself, running as root, it could always be root-owned, chmod 644.
13:01:58< RangerRick> hm, true
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13:24:02< Gardner> Has the bdl.ct.us Fink mirror worked for anyone here ever?
13:24:21-!- cmeme [n=cmeme@boa.b9.com] has joined #fink
13:24:26< akh> I don't remember.
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13:28:32< Gardner> It has not worked for me once since I've been using rsync.
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13:33:00< akh> hmmm...researchers found hydrophobic water
13:40:47< dmacks> O...kay....
13:41:42< lisppaste> akh pasted "oxymoron?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/12051
13:41:57< akh> It's not as insane as it first sounds;.
13:47:17< muesli> hey guys
13:47:34< muesli> my last fink update-all died due to power failure
13:47:40< muesli> now i tried to run it again
13:47:59< muesli> and it tells me: W: Encountered status field in a non-version description
13:48:00< muesli> W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems
13:48:10< muesli> which doesnt help... a clue how to fix that?
13:48:52< dmacks> muesli: There's a Fink FAQ item about corrupted "status" files.
13:49:01< muesli> oh cool... sorry
13:49:03< akh> http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/comp-general.php?phpLang=en#dpkg-parse-error
13:49:45< dmacks> np...unless you knew "all status crap is the same", you might overlook it:)
13:51:03< dmacks> Note to self: redirecting a filehandle to itself isn't a good idea.
13:51:42< akh> Sounds bad
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14:41:13< spiral> hello
14:42:01< spiral> I think I'm gonna buy an ibook, and as a linux user, I'm really interested in fink project...
14:42:43< spiral> for example, I use some kde apps, and I would like to know if they can be installed and used on macos via fink while keeping aqua as the interface
14:42:44< spiral> ?
14:45:44< dmacks> Most fink packages (including KDE) use X11 for graphics. That means they run within the X11 environment. The "whole x11 world" exists as a standard Mac OS application.
14:47:00< dmacks> That means you can have KDE stuff and Aqua stuff running and visible at the same time, but KDE will still mostly be X11ish in its interface.
14:47:23< dmacks> (there are X11 window-managers that give various levels of "Aqua-like" look'n'feel obviously)
14:48:27< spiral> dmacks: do I need to launch the whole kde to use let's say for example kopete ?
14:48:43< spiral> dmacks: or can I just launch kopete inside tiger's X11 ?
14:49:45< dmacks> Most KDE apps are stand-alone and run directly under X11. You definitely do not need to run the whole KDE environment just to get a few k* things.
14:50:01< spiral> dmacks: all right, it's really fine
14:50:06-!- lane [n=lschwar@c-24-118-139-118.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #fink
14:50:10< spiral> I've got another question...
14:50:21< spiral> I tried an ibook today and saw it came with bash 2.05...
14:50:49< spiral> if I use fink & I install bash3, will it be possible to use it in macos's Terminal by default ?
14:51:38< dmacks> Sure! As with other standard unix-like systems, you can set whatever default shell you like.
14:52:16< spiral> dmacks: all right, I wasn't sure to which point macos was unix-based
14:52:36< dmacks> Entirely. Then there's a fancy GUI on top of it:)
14:52:41< spiral> I'm looking forward to have a nice transition from my linux laptop to this ibook
14:52:54< spiral> dmacks: nice, apple really does good GUIs for conf :-)
14:53:04< spiral> makes sorry
14:53:12< dmacks> (You can even kill off Aqua entirely, then you have a console-based darwin/ppc box)
14:53:30< lane> or only launch X
14:53:34< dmacks> Ayup.
14:53:47< spiral> yeah, sure, but aqua...
14:53:55< spiral> I really like this look & feel
14:53:59< spiral> ;-)
14:54:23< spiral> hmmm, and for swithching between stable & unstable in fink...
14:54:35< lane> you'll be using 10.4?
14:54:39< spiral> is it something like "vi /etc/apt/sources.list" & so on ?
14:54:48< dmacks> (One tricky thing is that OS X by default uses alternative databases to the usual /etc/* flatfiles)
14:54:53< spiral> lane: yeah, 'm gonna buy an ibook in a few days... so Tiger
14:55:08< lane> you'll probably want unstable then
14:55:29< dmacks> There's no unstable (and only a subset of a usually-outdated snapshot of stable) available via apt.
14:55:36< spiral> lane: yeah, that's what I noticed browsing package list on the site
14:56:00< dmacks> Probably the 'fink' command is what you want rather than using apt directly.
14:56:36< spiral> dmacks: all right, I'll have to change this behavior then..
14:56:46< dmacks> ('fink' sits on top of dpkg/apt and knows how to compile things from source, rather than just downloading precompiled binaries)
14:56:46< spiral> 'm a debianist ;-)
14:56:54< spiral> dmacks: nice
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14:58:40< spiral> hmmm, and for syncing my documents with my other computers, I use rsync on my linuxes boxes...
14:59:00< spiral> can I use fink to get rsync in order to backup my ~ in macos ?
14:59:34< dmacks> Sure (actually, rsync comes with OS X:)
14:59:52< spiral> dmacks: marvellous...
15:00:10< spiral> I hope the guy who told me he wanted to buy my pc laptop won't take too much time ;-)
15:00:14< rand-irc> heading out
15:00:16< rand-irc> ttl all
15:00:54< rand-irc> just use the -E flag with rsync (i think it was)
15:01:04< rand-irc> to backup resource forks 
15:01:12< rand-irc> *vanish*
15:01:16-!- rand-irc [n=admin@216.129.208.116] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.g1m0.se/macirssi/"]
15:01:21< spiral> ;-)
15:01:52< dmacks> Ayup. Mac files often have metadata that unpatched standard tools can lose.
15:02:23< spiral> dmacks: all right, I shall have a look to this, then
15:02:35< dmacks> Welcome aboard!
15:02:47< spiral> :-)))
15:02:49< spiral> thanks
15:03:09< spiral> hmmm, an other question : does fink provide ability to read/write reiserfs or ext3fs ?
15:03:56< sid77> there is a kext which reads ext2 and maybe ext3 partitions hosted on sf.net
15:04:23< spiral> sid77: what's a kext, sorry ? a kernel extension maybe ? how does it work ?
15:04:27< sid77> yup
15:04:31< sid77> kernel extension
15:04:34< dmacks> Last I knew, when asked about linuxish filesystems, an apple dev laughed maniacally and ran away.
15:04:49< spiral> dmacks: lol
15:05:05 * sid77 looks for url
15:05:43< spiral> http://sourceforge.net/projects/ext2fsx/
15:05:47< spiral> that's it maybe ?
15:05:55< sid77> yeah
15:06:00< sid77> you're faster than me
15:06:10-!- Albie [n=ambs@82.155.38.56] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
15:06:36< spiral> how do kext work ? are they smth launched on bootup which puts an icon with the ext2/3 partitions on desktop ?
15:07:00-!- Albie [n=ambs@82.155.38.56] has joined #fink
15:09:13< sid77> that tools comes in many "pieces"
15:09:24< dmacks> (an OS X kext is like a linux kernel module except it's dynamically loaded)
15:09:51< sid77> there's a panel thing that allow you to watch ext2 partitions and set many options
15:10:02< sid77> there are ext2 cli tools
15:10:08< sid77> and the kernel extension
15:10:11< spiral> all right
15:10:15< spiral> thanks for the precisions
15:10:16< sid77> and maybe something else
15:10:58< dmacks> Once the kernel can understand a certain filesystem, it's fairly seemlessly integrated into the OS (mounting, Finder interaction, CLI access, etc)
15:11:27< dmacks> (/me has never tried the ext2 stuff)
15:12:18< spiral> all right, I think with all I have to test, I'll totally mess up my first macos install :-P
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15:15:11< sid77> (/me does, it's quite better than linux Mac OS extended partitions support)
15:16:18< spiral> sid77: all right, I shall have to use it if I end up installing linux & macos on the ibook
15:17:32< sid77> spiral, choose slackintosh ;-) (this is spam)
15:17:55< spiral> sid77: I think it'll more likely be debian or ubuntu
15:18:11< sid77> yeah yeah
15:18:21< sid77> ubuntu it's pretty cool
15:18:32< lane> spiral: keep in mind that you won't be able to use wireless under Linux on your ibook
15:19:25< sid77> well actually only airport extreme is unusable... btw: anyone knows if the rumors about openbsd able to running it are true?
15:19:37< spiral> lane: yeah, I know, but I just use wireless when I'm out of my house, else I use good old ethernet cables
15:19:59< sid77> I've read some *very* old thread on openbsd ml about it
15:20:01< spiral> sid77: just read about a router using this chip & *bsd
15:22:15< sid77> uhm
15:22:58< sid77> and what happens if I try to load an osx kext in opendarwin/ppc? (random thought, don't take it too seriously)
15:27:48< newmanbe> It might work, it might not. *shrugs*
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15:30:51< dmacks> Depends (at least!) on whether the kext needs any of the Mac-proprietary components.
15:31:08< newmanbe> Right, what I said. :)
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15:31:22< dmacks> ya
15:34:04< sid77> uops
15:34:12< sid77> spiral, do you use tiger?
15:34:28< sid77> if so read this: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=474630
15:34:31< spiral> sid77: I'll use it when I'll get this mac...
15:35:11< spiral> sid77: all right, so it'll be hard for a moment
15:35:11< lane> RangerRick: If I were interested in helping with the KDE/Mac port, where could I get my feet wet?
15:35:37< spiral> but maybe will fink be sufficient for me not to use linux on the ibook
15:35:45< sid77> spiral, sure
15:36:09< spiral> hmmm, about kde, I suppose it is able to browse the mac file system & use ~ as the user profile basis ?
15:38:52< lane> spiral: yup - using KDE is pretty seamless
15:39:06< spiral> lane: nice...
15:39:14< lane> your home directory is your home directory, pretty much as you'd expect
15:39:35< spiral> I'll try to use aqua apps as much as possible, but I think I'll sometimes use kde... I'm quite used to a lot of kde apps :-)
15:39:43< lane> the only sucky part is having to compile KDE yourself
15:40:05< lane> but... at least we have KDE
15:40:08< lane> :)
15:40:12< spiral> lane: fink doesn't provide binaries for it ?
15:40:46< lane> it does, but not yet for Tiger
15:40:56 * spiral 's wondering how long should kde compilation last on an ibook 1,42
15:40:59< lane> and even the binaries for pre-10.4 are pretty dated
15:41:09< lane> it takes a while
15:41:13< spiral> lane: all right, so I guess I'll have to compile it
15:41:18< lane> I'm actually doing it again right now
15:41:36< lane> I try to do parts at a time so I can see tangible progress
15:41:36< newmanbe> 22/21
15:41:36< newmanbe> Oops.
15:42:04< spiral> lane: if you've got an estimation of the duration when it finishes, I might be interested in knowing it...
15:42:19< spiral> it's been ages since I compiled kde for the last time on my computers...
15:43:35< lane> spiral: I did it a few weeks ago when I first got this iBook. I want to say between 0.75 - 2.5 days, depending on how much of KDE you're compiling and how much of a base you already have installed. 
15:44:06< spiral> lane: whoooah... what kind of ibook do you have ? 1.42 ?
15:44:08< lane> yup
15:44:26< lane> but I'm not sure
15:44:36< spiral> lane: nice... one of their new models, the 14'1 screen ?
15:44:42< lane> yup
15:44:46< spiral> I'm gonna buy this one too
15:44:58< spiral> lane: do you like it ? have you got any harms against it ?
15:45:16< spiral> I'll take it with 1Gb of RAM & 100 Gb of hard drive
15:45:36< lane> it's pretty nice, but I gotta say that 10.4.2 is pretty flaky if you encounter an iffy wireless situation
15:45:51< lane> I'm in an apartment
15:45:52< newmanbe> 8/32
15:45:58< newmanbe> Oops again...
15:46:24-!- Albie [n=ambs@82.155.38.56] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:46:24< lane> and periodically the wireless gets interrupted - I suspect neighbor's wireless phone or microwave
15:46:47< spiral> lane: weird... but I shouldn't have problems with my neighboors...
15:46:50< lane> when that happens, the OS doesn't realize immediately that the wireless connection is gone
15:46:57< spiral> they're too old to know what a computer is...
15:46:59< lane> and the OS gets really unstable
15:47:12< spiral> lane: I hope they'll fix the instability
15:47:15< lane> yeah
15:47:19< spiral> lane: how long does it take to boot macos on this model ?
15:47:30< lane> hmm... maybe 30 seconds
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15:47:49< spiral> the only mac I saw booting was on a friend of mine's pc... and it was really fast...
15:48:02< lane> yeah, it is very fast
15:48:07< spiral> :-)
15:48:15< lane> on boot, that is
15:48:42< lane> I have 1.5 GB ram, and it doesn't feel quite as snappy as I'd think for that much ram
15:48:51< lane> but then again I usually have quite a few apps open
15:49:15< spiral> lane: yeah, sure... I'll just keep with 1 GB I think, 1.5 GB is really expensive... :-P
15:49:31< lane> huh?
15:49:37< lane> only if you buy it from Apple
15:50:40< spiral> lane: yeah, I think I will buy it with the mac on apple store, they've got nice reductions for students
15:51:03< lane> buy the computer from Apple with the student deal
15:51:11< lane> do NOT buy the ram from them
15:51:26< lane> on dealram right now the low prices are $42 for an extra 512 or $110 for an extra 1 GB
15:51:41< lane> and the iBook comes with 512 soldered onto the motherboard
15:52:04< lane> and the ram is very simple to install yourself
15:52:09< spiral> lane: yeah, I know, but I'm in France, and it's not so easy to get cheap ram...
15:52:39< spiral> a lot of online store don't want to ship ram away from their countries
15:52:55< spiral> stores...
15:52:59< spiral> damn keyboard :-P
15:55:02< lane> ah
15:55:47< lane> well, I suppose. but Apple's ram prices are outrageous
15:55:52< spiral> tomorrow I'm gonna try to find a mac only shop in my town
15:56:40< spiral> lane: yeah, I know, if I manage to find 1 Gb of ram from elsewhere, this might be interesting for me
15:56:56< spiral> if I put the ram myself, does it break the warranty ?
15:57:28< lane> you don't necessarily need a mac-only. just try to find somewhere that has the right laptop RAM 512MB PC2700 (333MHz) DDR SDRAM
15:57:40< lane> I don't think so, but I'm not positive on that
15:58:10< spiral> lane: for example my habitual pc assembler ?
15:58:24< lane> huh?
15:58:43< spiral> lane: sorry... literal translations don't always do the trick...
15:58:50< spiral> I try again...
15:59:35< spiral> the shop where I bought some no-name PC "build" by the shop with a precise configuration I wanted...
15:59:56< spiral> I know them really well, and they also sell ram extensions & so on for pc laptops...
16:00:06< lane> oh right. yeah, if they have the right kind of ram, that's all you need
16:00:13< spiral> so, is the mac's ram the same as pc laptop's ones ?
16:00:23< spiral> if so, I could check it out with them tomorrow
16:00:40< lane> Here are the tech specs: http://www.apple.com/ibook/specs.html
16:01:06< spiral> lane: all right, thanks for the precisions
16:01:12< lane> np
16:02:10< spiral> appleworks is provided with the ibook ?
16:02:37< spiral> hmmm, nice, with that & openoffice I might have all I need
16:02:52< spiral> just maybe should I buy keynote :-P
16:03:04< lane> http://www.neooffice.org/
16:03:04-!- regeya [n=shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:03:35< lane> it took them a while, but it finally works well
16:03:36< spiral> lane: yeah, I already bookmarked this one this afternoon, thanks :-)
16:03:43< spiral> lane: really nice :-)
16:04:08< lane> or, if you're running KDE fullscreen, you can run openoffice under X
16:04:52< spiral> lane: this might also prove usefull sometimes, but neooffice might have my preference, because I hope I'll manage to use as much apple native applications as possible
16:05:56< sid77> 'night all
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16:08:08< RangerRick> lane: hard to say, we're just trying to get the scons/bksys build happy right now
16:08:29< RangerRick> lane: we're hanging out in #kde-devel and #bksys right now
16:08:35< lane> RangerRick: on my way
16:08:36< lane> :)
16:08:38< newmanbe> RangerRick: Did your patch script you made for Gopher make it compile against fink's ncurses?
16:08:41< newmanbe> s/script/file/
16:08:57< RangerRick> newmanbe: no idea
16:09:14< newmanbe> Because it's not, or so dmacks tells me.
16:10:01< RangerRick> ok  :)
16:10:11< lane> RangerRick: I'm also tinkering around trying to get some other KDE apps to compile cleanly in fink
16:10:25< lane> I took a look at some of the other KDE .info files today
16:10:42< lane> I see what you meant in your email about the CC export lines
16:12:04< lane> unfortunately, I did a reinstall of OS X over the weekend, so I'm currently recompiling KDE
16:12:52< lane> RangerRick: so has a decision been made about what the KDE 4 build system will be?
16:14:01< RangerRick> lane: bksys and scons
16:16:50< lane> RangerRick: ok. so at this point it's mostly wait and see? I'd really like to help with KDE porting, both KDE/Mac and KDE under X
16:20:41< RangerRick> lane: it's wait and see unless you know python very well
16:20:51< RangerRick> in which case I'd appreciate the help, I don't know it very well at all  :)
16:21:22< RangerRick> basically, bksys doesn't have the equivalent of libtool's knowledge of "module" and "non-module"
16:21:27< RangerRick> which is how we decide to build bundles or not
16:21:45< RangerRick> I know coolo has some ideas on what needs to be done, but I don't know what his timeline is like, I'm going to try to help out if I can
16:22:43< lane> ok. I don't know python. 
16:23:08< lane> but I am still interested. I guess at this point maybe I'll stick with trying to get digikam and k3b into fink
16:23:24< RangerRick> ok  :)
16:23:24< RangerRick> well the easiest way to do osso is to mode
16:23:26< RangerRick> ack
16:23:44< RangerRick> the easiest way to do so is to model it after something like amarok's info file
16:23:52< RangerRick> it's reasonably straightforward
16:23:57< RangerRick> use the kde-admindir package
16:24:10< RangerRick> and do the stuff with build-helper and environment-helper to set things up nicely
16:24:25< RangerRick> that basically gives you all of the right stuff to find the right freetype and various other bits without having to do a lot of extra manual work
16:24:53< lane> right
16:25:30< lane> so do I have to manually write the build-helper.sh and environment-helper.sh files?
16:25:36< RangerRick> no, they're inside kde-admindir
16:25:49< lane> ok. so I just need to install that package
16:26:02< RangerRick> well, unpack that tarball as part of your package
16:26:07< RangerRick> see the Source2* lines in amarok.info
16:26:33< lane> right...
16:27:37< lane> that makes much more sense now
16:29:41< lane> well, once kdelibs finishes compiling, that info file should give me a good start
16:32:58< dmacks> How do I pass $fh in 'open $fh, ">somefile"' as a filehandle glob?
16:34:01< dmacks> If I &foo($fh), then within &foo it is seen as a scalar.
16:34:07< RangerRick> dmacks: what are you trying to do?
16:34:23< RangerRick> if you're trying to capture output, look into IPC::Open3 instead
16:35:21< dmacks> I want to redirect an already-open filehandle by tie()ing it. But if I 'tie $fh, "Tie::StdHandle"', it barfs.
16:36:41< dmacks> ('tie *STDOUT, "Tie::StdHandle"' is okay)
16:36:50< RangerRick> I have no idea
16:40:50< lane> RangerRick: with KDE 4, is one of the goals to be able to compile on OS X or Windows without requiring special patches or extra OS-specific compile scripts? 
16:40:55< RangerRick> lane: yes
16:41:00< Murr> dmacks perl file descriptors are among the least pleasant aspects
16:41:01< RangerRick> at least, unofficially
16:41:11< Murr> maybe you should go all OOP with IO::File
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16:41:19< Murr> or whatever it's called this week
16:41:28< lane> RangerRick: that's great
16:41:41< Murr> I be chillin' with da Ruby now
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16:42:35< dmacks> Murr: heh yeah.
16:46:20< dmacks> I need to maintain compatibilty with STDOUT somehow...doesn't seem like I can have a unified syntax...would have to rewrite [anything that uses any filehandle that I might want to use in my new manner] to use OO.
16:47:41< Murr> ic
16:48:57< Murr> I must admit that I'm unfamiliar with the open $fh syntax
16:49:35< dmacks> Today's lesson: it blows, but not as bad as 'open FOO'.
16:49:51< dmacks> Class (sorry:) dismissed.
16:52:07< Murr> ah, I see now
16:52:13< Murr> that's new as of perl 5.6
16:52:28< dmacks> yeah
16:52:31< Murr> I'm mainly familiar with 5.4 and earlier
16:52:43< Murr> and my pocket reference is for 5.5
16:53:26< dmacks> Traditional filehandles and *globs are unchanged (i.e., still horrible), but now you can use ordinary variables instead.
16:53:37< Murr> but it seems to me that passing that to another sub should work
16:54:00< Murr> what do you mean "seen as a scalar" ?
16:54:48< dmacks> If I try to tie() that $fh to a Tie::Handle object, the tie crashes because it thinks it's trying to tie a scalar not a handle.
16:55:28< Murr> ah
16:57:07< Murr> but tie does not generally take preexisting handles
16:57:55< dmacks> tie will take *any* filehandle. You can tie(*STDOUT) if you so desire:)
16:58:15< Murr> ah yes
16:58:29< Murr> hmm, have you tried something like *$fh ?
17:00:56< spiral> 'bye
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17:02:16< dmacks> Hrm, that works there, but then breaks when I re-open it.
17:07:15< dmacks> Okay, using raw fileno's works. Yeah, *that*'s an obvious perlish solution.
17:07:40-!- Darien [n=darien@office.mvcard.com] has quit []
17:07:42< Murr> I/O is one of the reasons why I prefer ruby these days
17:08:28< dmacks> Python's object io model looks pretty useful too.
17:13:29< Murr> yeah, but Ruby is more fun
17:13:51< Murr> Python is Vitamins, Ruby is Steak
17:14:21< dmacks> heh
17:14:45< JosephSpiros> Egh
17:14:48< JosephSpiros> But Ruby sucks
17:14:56< JosephSpiros> Lacking Unicode in this day and age = sucks
17:15:08< JosephSpiros> Otherwise, I adore Ruby
17:15:14< JosephSpiros> It makes me very sad
17:17:22< Murr> what exactly do you mean by "lacking unicode" ?
17:17:45-!- RangerRick is now known as RangerAway
17:17:54< JosephSpiros> It doesn't natively handle Unicode strings
17:18:23< Murr> I'm neverr quite sure what people mean by "natively handle unicode strings"
17:18:36< Murr> there is some support for utf8 regexps
17:18:48< JosephSpiros> Well, a string isn't Unicode in Ruby
17:18:55< JosephSpiros> Not in Python either, but Python has those u'foo'
17:19:04< JosephSpiros> Ruby doesn't even have that, last I checked
17:19:59< JosephSpiros> Otherwise, Ruby's only big problem is its lack of the library support of Python
17:20:26< Murr> what does u'foo' do?
17:21:07< JosephSpiros> u'<characters>' is the way you specify a unicode string in Python
17:21:20< Murr> so it stores it as UTF16?
17:21:30< JosephSpiros> UTF8 is the default encoding
17:21:36< JosephSpiros> Though whatever it uses internally, I don't know
17:22:14< Murr> so how does an unicode string differ from a plain string?
17:23:00< JosephSpiros> It's a different type
17:23:34< JosephSpiros> standard "str" type is an ASCII string
17:23:46< JosephSpiros> "unicode" type is Unicode string
17:24:20< Murr> yeah, bbut how do they differ?
17:25:32< JosephSpiros> well, other than in what cases you use one over the other, the unicode type will interpret escape sequences like \u????
17:25:41< JosephSpiros> or \U????????
17:26:02< JosephSpiros> (UTF-16 and UTF-32 point specifications respectively)
17:26:25< JosephSpiros> as well as \N{?} where ? is a character name
17:27:29< JosephSpiros> of course there's probably differences in the underlying implementation
17:27:33< JosephSpiros> and various APIs will take one over the other
17:27:48< JosephSpiros> OF course I'd prefer it if all strings were Unicode strings, with no need to differentiate
17:27:51< JosephSpiros> but that's just me
17:28:02< JosephSpiros> Ruby doesn't do either :-p
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17:28:07< JosephSpiros> There's no native Unicode support that I'm aware of
17:28:16-!- megahal [i=foobar@ip-246-036.oberlin.net] has joined #fink
17:28:19< JosephSpiros> though I think there's a third party library or two that tries to support it
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17:30:25< Murr> there is jcode
17:30:37< Murr> but admittedly, that's a very limited solution
17:33:52< dmacks> !seen vasi
17:33:52< Melian> vasi <n=vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 1d 13h 31m 58s ago, saying: 'meh, i'll be back to bug ya later :-P'.
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18:35:43-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis
18:35:43-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005]
18:35:43[Users #fink]
18:35:43[ Airo     ] [ cls     ] [ gopherd     ] [ lisppaste] [ newmanbe  ] [ spundun ] 
18:35:43[ akh      ] [ cmeme   ] [ gzl         ] [ mcp      ] [ nnutter_  ] [ swix_   ] 
18:35:43[ akh__    ] [ das_    ] [ htodd_      ] [ mdmonk_  ] [ pnorman   ] [ usataway] 
18:35:43[ BleedAway] [ emp     ] [ jack-       ] [ megahal  ] [ pogma     ] [ zorton  ] 
18:35:43[ brendan  ] [ eno-away] [ JosephSpiros] [ Melian   ] [ RangerAway] 
18:35:43[ cirdan   ] [ Erik____] [ kane-xs     ] [ muesli   ] [ RLD_osx   ] 
18:35:43[ Clef     ] [ gecko2  ] [ KraMer      ] [ Murr     ] [ runelind  ] 
18:35:43-!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 39 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 39 normal]
18:35:44-!- [freenode-info] if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
18:35:44-!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug  3 17:57:20 2003
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19:26:14< Uchiha> if I fink install bundle gnome, would I be able to fink install the gnome desktop 2.12 on top of it?
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19:28:48< akh__> Uchiha: If you turn on the unstable tree you'll get it as part of bundle-gnome.
19:30:26< Uchiha> bundle-gnome         2.6.0-2         GNOME convenience package
19:30:36< Uchiha> That's what is says to me, though.
19:30:45< Uchiha> I have the unstable tree on
19:31:33< akh__> You need to update--both 10.3 and 10.4 show 2.6.2-13 as the lowest version.
19:32:11< Uchiha> I need to update fink?
19:32:25< Uchiha> What command do I use for that?
19:33:04< akh__> If you want to do it via binaries, then use "sudo apt-get update" followed by "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade"
19:33:22< akh__> For source, go with "fink selfupdate"
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19:34:22< Uchiha> which would you recommend on a dial up connection?
19:35:47-!- Pres-Gas [n=robert@156-56-169-72.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has joined #fink
19:35:51< Pres-Gas> Hey all
19:36:18< Pres-Gas> does anyone use the rdiff-backup on their os x box?
19:36:31< akh> Uchiha:  The first may result in fewer packages being downloaded, but I'm not sure, given that I don't know how far behind your packages are.
19:37:00< Uchiha> I downloaded the fink installed a few months ago
19:37:13< Uchiha> the fink installer
19:38:05< akh> When?  We released new versions at the end of April.
19:38:53< Uchiha> I downloaded just the installer in july
19:39:00< Uchiha> I never updated it
19:39:57< akh> It's strange that you show bundle-gnome-2.6.0 as the latest version then.  Both Fink-0.8 and Fink-0.7.2 have 2.6.2 
19:40:30< Uchiha> mine says 2.6.0-2
19:41:33< akh> What do you get if you run "fink --version"?  Paste the answer up at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink/
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19:46:05 * drm summons dmacks
19:46:13< drm> or vasi
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20:00:09< Uchiha> oh yeah
20:00:23< Uchiha> akh, I have 0.8 alright
20:00:29< Uchiha> I'll go post that now
20:02:02< lisppaste> Uchiha pasted "Fink version #" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/12057
20:05:07< akh> I figured it out--I was looking at gnome-desktop instead of bundle-gnome.  :-(
20:05:14< akh> Sorry for the confusion.,
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20:32:26< dmacks> Damn...I came as soon as I got the page.
20:32:31< akh> heh
20:32:46< akh> finite communication speed gets you every time.
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21:58:03< lane> hi guys. I just re-did fink, and I've hit the problem where selecting "use antialiased fonts" in KDE control center doesn't actually stick. I know I've asked this question before, and that the answer has to do with a directory having the wrong owner or permissions. Which directory? :)
21:58:24< newmanbe> Hello.
21:58:25-!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"]
21:58:46< newmanbe> I have forgotten all knowledge of KDE.
21:58:47 * newmanbe shrugs.
21:59:39< Nai> helo i'm wanting to troubleshoot an apt source line I put in osx fink, let me know if you have any ideas thanks --> http://sial.org/pbot/13360
22:00:05 * newmanbe grumples.
22:00:09< newmanbe> !lart the World Wide Web
22:00:10 * Melian nukes the World Wide Web with a single large nuke
22:00:20< newmanbe> Nai: But I'll look at it for you. 8)
22:01:01< newmanbe> That is a very odd pastbin site.
22:01:11< dmacks> lane: ~/.qt perhaps?
22:01:27< dmacks> Look for something in ~ that is root-owned.
22:01:31< lane> ah yup that'd be it
22:01:43< Nai> the line i added , the host pings, i got rid of the 404 messasge now it is 302 found
22:01:49< Nai> but still local disk error as you can see.
22:01:52< newmanbe> Nai: I have the same problem.
22:02:15< newmanbe> It doesn't seem to have an affect on anything, just nasty error messages. /me shrugs again.
22:02:59< Nai> a site told me to add in the source so I could retrieve package 'tk-pm' my end goal is to get Perl/Tk functioning so i can run tk perl gui programs
22:03:11< Nai> i installed xcode, compilers and x11 sdk, etc.
22:03:26 * Nai >fink install tk-pm does not function like the site says it should
22:03:47 * Nai tried getting perl/tk working by building a while back a few times but it never worked. so looking for bin(binary)
22:03:49< Nai> ;]
22:04:17< dmacks> Okay, we can help with official fink. Non-official bindists are up to [whomever's they are] not us:)
22:04:43< dmacks> What *exactly* does ">fink install tk-pm does not function like the site says it should" mean?
22:04:54< Nai> Information about 1892 packages read in 0 seconds.
22:04:54< Nai> Failed: no package found for specification 'tk-pm'!
22:05:08< Nai> #
22:05:13< dmacks> Are you sure "tk-pm" is the name of the package?
22:05:24< Nai> http://backpan.perl.org/authors/id/Z/ZI/ZINCDEV/tk-zinc-3.302.readme
22:05:28< Nai> says there in the OSX section, 
22:05:48< Nai> i think tk-pm is a prerequisite for the software on there, tk-zinc, which i'm not instaling , i have my own tk apps
22:06:07< Nai> (the tcl/tk binaries for osx are unrelated to perl/tk which they didn't build)
22:06:18< dmacks> http://fink.sourceforge.net/pdb/search.php?summary=tk-pm
22:06:45< dmacks> You gotta pick the -pmXXX coresponding to which version of perl you are using.
22:07:03< Nai> hm, i dont think the tk-pm is the perl one, im not sure
22:07:55< Nai> # whereis perl && /usr/bin/perl -V |head -1 
22:07:55< Nai> /usr/bin/perl
22:07:55< Nai> Summary of my perl5 (revision 5 version 8 subversion 6) configuration:
22:08:08< dmacks> So you want -pm586
22:08:12 * Nai looks at the last 2 links ;/
22:08:40 * Nai has a feeling this has nothing to do with Perl/Tk
22:08:48< dmacks> Your feeling is wrong.
22:09:30< dmacks> "Perl/Tk" just means "you'd like to use the perl Tk module", which, in fink, is supplied by the tk-pm* packages:)
22:09:46< dmacks> back in half-hour
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22:16:59< Nai> in the package search on that page http://fink.sourceforge.net/pdb/search.php?summary=tk-pm , the 2 links at the bottom don't give links to the binary? i cant find the file anywhere, highly illogical site structure
22:17:27< Nai> unless i stayed up too late last night and i'm missing something obvious, seems as though it links around in circles
22:20:01< beniamino__> Nai: just fink install tk-pm586-bin
22:20:46< Nai> Failed: no package found for specification 'tk-pm586-bin'!
22:20:53< Nai> i tried for tk-pm586 before also, didn't work
22:21:53 * Nai puts his sources list back to what it was before and runs selfupdate again
22:22:17< beniamino__> enable unstable?
22:22:43< Nai> it's default, i just put it back to how it was
22:23:03< Nai> it got the package lists again, i ran the >fink install tk-pm586-bin   again and it failed to find the pacakge
22:23:18< Nai> Information about 1892 packages read in 0 seconds.
22:23:18< Nai> Failed: no package found for specification 'tk-pm586-bin'!
22:23:22< beniamino__> i meant -- you need to enable unstable if you didn't already
22:23:41< Nai> i tried that by adding lines but i commented those out
22:24:15< Nai> http://sial.org/pbot/13362
22:24:23< Nai> thats what it looks like, mine are commented out at the base of the config
22:24:57< Nai> deb file:/sw/fink stable main crypto [unstable]      add in that word on line2 ?
22:25:56< beniamino__> there are no debs for unstable -- you need to edit fink.conf not sources.list. look at http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php?phpLang=en#unstable
22:26:14< Nai> X(
22:26:36 * Nai reads
22:27:53< Nai> :)
22:29:38 * Nai goes afk while it does things
22:29:43< Nai> thanks beniamino__ for helping me get unstable working
22:29:57< beniamino__> np
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22:54:34< dmacks> drm!
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22:56:08< dmacks> bbi5min
22:56:25< Nai> :)
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23:04:59< drm> hi dmacks
23:05:43< dmacks> what up?
23:06:18< drm> do splitoffs inherit all fields from their parent which aren't specified in the splitoff? what are the exceptions, do you remember?
23:07:03< dmacks> I think splits *only* inherit %v/%r, Desc*, Type.
23:07:15< drm> oh
23:07:17< drm> hmm
23:07:24< dmacks> DocFiles is not inherited (though we shuold maybe change that?)
23:07:36< dmacks> License/Homepage are inherited.
23:07:38< drm> not that it matters, really, but i think i want to establish a convention about the GCC field
23:07:57< drm> because i want to define one for a splitoff which wouldn't apply to the parent
23:08:06< dmacks> Ooh good point! That should be inherited, since we slap it in the parent but it really applies to the -shlibs.
23:08:39< drm> right... in this case, i'm going to take the c++ interface lib and stick it in its own splitoff
23:09:09< drm> to avoid polluting the GCC: 3.3 stuff when the c++ lib isn't being used...
23:09:36< drm> i don't mean polluting, exactly
23:10:19< dmacks> GCC is only used during building, right? That means it probably only has an effect (at this time:) if it's in the parent.
23:10:54< drm> right...it's hardly used at all, in fact
23:11:19< drm> mainly its a device for helping developers (mainly me, as it happens) keep track of the G++ ABI
23:11:24< dmacks> heh:)
23:11:43< dmacks> So placing it in a split only wouldn't work.
23:11:59< drm> well, why not?
23:12:57< drm> oh, i see, it won't make sense in terms of the compiler check that we do
23:13:11< drm> in my case, that won't matter, since i'll be using SetCC and SetCXX to force gcc-3.3
23:13:13< dmacks> PkgVersion checks it (enforcing gcc_select setting) during phase_unpack, which only happens for aparent.
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23:13:57< drm> yeah
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23:26:45< drm> cirdan: safe travels
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--- Log closed Thu Sep 29 00:00:14 2005

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