--- Log opened Tue Sep 27 00:00:12 2005
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06:21:39 * newmanbe wonders how four sources can have four different md5-checksums.
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07:16:02< akh> g'day all
07:16:20< newmanbe> Morning.
07:16:40< newmanbe> I plan on having a terrible day fixing the (now) umn-gopher package. ;)
07:16:48< newmanbe> Put that won't occur 'till latter. :)
07:16:59< akh> Ah--that sounds terrible all right. ;-)
07:21:52 * akh needs to  use axel as my downloader along with HEAD fink (or get other people to) and see if my change for high-verbosity mode works well enough to backport.
07:23:21< akh> 'twould be nice for 0.24.11.
07:33:36< akh> Hmm...maybe it's time to post a notice saying that our binary installer is NOT for intel boxen.
07:34:58< cirdan> yoyo
07:35:05< akh> hey
07:35:11 * cirdan is going to lousiana
07:36:03< akh> Ah, yeah, I remember you mentioning that.
07:36:26< cirdan> i gota call last night saing be at the armory twed. morning
07:36:36< cirdan> s/twed/wed/
07:37:20< akh> At least you got a day's notice.
07:38:50< akh> (though they'd kind of have to, wouldn't they--I don't know if the ATM network is back up and running there, for example)
07:39:02< cirdan> heh
07:43:11 * akh will start counting the "Fink installed from the binary installer doesn't work on x86" posts.  Right now we're at 1.
07:43:37< akh> When we hit 3 I'll put a note on the download page.
07:44:08< cirdan> just change it to binary installer, PPC only
07:44:17< cirdan> then continue to count ;-)
07:44:25< akh> Yup.
07:45:05 * akh figures why go to the effort until "several" (>2) people have complained.
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08:19:30< pogma> I am not all that sure that a bootstrap of cvs HEAD works on x86
08:19:57< rand-irc> how is the x86 'port' working?
08:20:15< akh> pogma:  I'm not either, but our binaries _definitely_ don't.
08:20:29< akh> I figured we might as well have a guinea pig.  ;-)
08:20:30< pogma> msachs has an x86 box and he does fink stuff on it sometimes
08:20:59< pogma> a couple of months ago some mozilla guy got it working with a little patch I gave him
08:21:13< rand-irc> cool
08:21:35< pogma> thing is we assume gcc3 exists quite a lot, and it does not on Mac OS X x86
08:22:19< pogma> msachs, afaik, symlinks all possible compilers to gcc-4.0
08:25:00< akh> fun
08:25:03< asari> Todai will have x86 Mac at last, I heard.
08:25:14< asari> hi all
08:25:21< pogma> hi asari
08:25:34< pogma> That's cool
08:26:28< asari> only one. of course not 3,000 x86 Mac's
08:27:02< cirdan> pogma: no gcc3 even w/the 'legacy tools'?
08:27:37< pogma> cirdan: Well, it has , I heard, a ppc targeted gcc3...
08:27:45< cirdan> oh
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08:28:05< pogma> but only gcc4 is supported for x86
08:29:55< rand-irc> seams reasonable
08:33:32< pogma> yes, but gcc4 is really much stricter than gcc3, so many things will need patching :(
08:34:03< pogma> plus some stuff assumes darwin == ppc
08:34:17< rand-irc> aye
08:34:21< cirdan> most things build w/gcc4 now
08:34:29< cirdan> mschas has done a great job
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08:41:59< pogma> no dispute from me
08:42:15< pogma> oops, time for a beer
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08:59:06< rand-irc> hehe
08:59:15< rand-irc> can't miss the beer time :)
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09:14:05 * asari time to go home -- 23:13 JST
09:14:08< asari> bbl
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10:17:41< vasi> hey RangerRick, you around?
10:18:25< vasi> meh, i'll be back to bug ya later :-P
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10:27:55< akh> "Fink keeps giving me cvs errors.  It must be your fault, even though you don't own the servers."
10:28:29< dmacks> Right. Everyone knows it's really libtool's fault.
10:28:40< akh> yeah
10:30:26 * akh finishes my homework.
10:31:03< akh> (Adult ed class in fiction writing)
10:31:15< RangerRick> ooh, adult fiction writing?!
10:31:20< akh> Thought it might come in handy for grant applications. ;-)
10:31:32< dmacks> heh
10:32:02< akh> RangerRick: "Adult" material wasn't explicitly precluded.
10:32:13< RangerRick> akh: on grant applications?  excellent!
10:32:14< RangerRick> :)
10:32:43< akh> Yah--there was a study where the researchers MRIed a couple having sex.
10:32:58< RangerRick> heard about that one on the news
10:34:41< akh> It would be hard to justify for physics research, though.
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10:35:29< dmacks> Nonsense...you could develop new MR techniques that work for non-stationary objects.
10:35:29< RangerRick> "the effect of a naked woman's body on the bending of light"
10:36:17< akh> "Researchers found that they couldn't see anything outside of the woman when she disrobed."
10:36:42< akh> "Clearly this must be a strong nonlinear bending of light.  Yeah, that's the ticket!"
10:37:59< dmacks> "Strong linear non-bending" perhaps, Mr. Light?
10:38:33< akh> dmacks: Ah, yeah--even better choice of words. ;-)
10:54:29< dmacks> Coincidentally, today's Top5 is "Bad Romance Novel Opening Lines", but none have any physics refs.
10:55:14 * akh is surprised.
11:05:27< akh> hmm...the guy who's installing KDE-3.4.0 is barking up the wrong tree on many levels.
11:05:51< dmacks> Oooh yeah.
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11:08:16< akh> This would be an exemplar of why _not_ just to move individual .info files.
11:08:54< dmacks> ya
11:11:18< dmacks> What's the /ignore flag for people leaving? I thought it was PARTS, but no-workie.
11:11:37< akh> dunno
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11:33:50< rand-irc> akh, cool
11:34:04< rand-irc> i finished a short class on that a few months ago
11:34:07< rand-irc> lot of fun
11:35:34< dmacks> MRI? Adult literature? Fiction writing?
11:35:55< rand-irc> fiction writing
11:39:16< akh> rand-irc: /me picked kind of an unfortunate time to do it, though--I've got a conference next month.
11:42:16< rand-irc> heh, how far in are you?
11:42:24< akh> 1 week
11:42:34< rand-irc> ah
11:42:45< rand-irc> so what sort of assignments are you doing atm?
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11:43:56< akh> We analyzed a very short story for its elements (intro, rising action, ...) and wrote a two-paragraph intro that was supposed to establish character and setting.
11:45:05< akh> Starting this week I think we'll also get copies of items from people the class to analyze.
11:45:22< akh> people ^in the class
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11:46:44< rand-irc> cool, does that mean that they will get some of yours?
11:46:59< rand-irc> i liked that when others read my stuff and pointed out stuff
11:47:03< akh> Yeah--everybody was supposed to sign up for two sessions.
11:47:33< akh> It would help if I had clue 1 what I wanted to give them. ;-)
11:48:02< akh> Maybe a first-person account of how a source tarball becomes a compiled package.  :-)
11:49:34< dmacks> Part of string theory allows a minute amount of drm to actually transfer into your 'puter, where he does it manually bit-by-bit.
11:50:03< akh> I thought drm just checked for copyrighted material.
11:50:08< akh> Wait, that's DRM.  :-)
11:50:31< dmacks> heh
11:51:40< akh> I think I'll need more than just case-sensitivity wordplay though.  ;-)
11:51:50< akh> lunchtime
11:55:39< dmacks> cirdan: ping
12:00:40< rand-irc> hehe
12:00:49< rand-irc> sorry, was distracted by work
12:00:57< rand-irc> how is drm these days?
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12:45:31< akh> rand-irc: drm is on sabbatical, which somehow led to _less_ time for Fink.
12:46:02< rand-irc> fair enough, time to rest and recoup
12:46:33< akh> Actually I think he's working--just not teaching.
12:46:48< dmacks_away> Gotta get 'im a sabbatical from his sabbatical.
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12:49:29< carbon60> I just installed 0.8 on 10.4 and proceeded to do apt-get install ethereal.
12:49:38< carbon60> Installed fine.
12:49:39< carbon60> Won't run.
12:49:43< carbon60> Getting pango errors.
12:50:11< dmacks_away> !lisppaste
12:50:12< Melian> You can use lisppaste to paste errors at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink , instead of flooding the channel.
12:50:32< dmacks_away> carbon60: Need to see exact and complete error messages...
12:50:49< lisppaste> carbon60 pasted "Ethereal Errors" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/12015
12:51:27< carbon60> I'm thinking I need to install pango1.
12:51:58< dmacks_away> Yeah, *some* component of pango1 or gtk+2 is missing.
12:53:01< dmacks_away> Make sure gtk+2 and gtk+2-shlibs are installed. (one version of ethereal had a missing dependency on one of those)
12:55:25< carbon60> The former is missing.
12:56:00< akh> carbon60: This is a known problem with ethereal in the 10.4-transitional binary distribution.
12:56:09< carbon60> Cool.
12:56:57 * akh considers making a "transient package problem" page on the Wiki rather than clogging up the FAQ with package-specific things that get fixed relatively quickly.
12:57:08< dmacks_away> akh: Good idea!
12:57:29< akh> And I'll put a link on the FAQ pointing to it.
12:57:30< RangerRick> akh: yeah, definitely
12:57:41< RangerRick> "first, check <here> for problems with specific packages"
12:58:15< carbon60> Looks like I need a newer version of Ethereal.
12:58:22< dmacks_away> Can't we (i.e., drm:) push a fixed ethereal.deb into bindist?
12:58:43< RangerRick> drm should be able to, yes
12:58:49< RangerRick> there's a specific place for such things
12:59:11< dmacks_away> drm's overflowing TODO list?
13:00:41< carbon60> Is going to rsync stable reasonable?
13:01:02< akh> Yup
13:03:45< carbon60> Cool.
13:03:54< carbon60> I think I saw a FAQ on that somewhere.
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13:07:10< carbon60> So, if the "packages"  section of the site lists ethereal 0.10.12 under stable but rsync'd, how do I grab that? Just using "fink install"?
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13:11:26< RangerRick> fink selfupdate-rsync
13:11:30< RangerRick> then fink install
13:12:03< carbon60> Thanks RangerRick .
13:14:15< akh> http://wiki.opendarwin.org/index.php/Fink:Package_issues
13:14:25< akh> As they get fixed they'll get crossed off.
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13:18:17< carbon60> So, selfupdate is rebuilding/upgrading a bunch of packages.
13:18:25< akh> Yup.
13:18:42< carbon60> Guess I need a faster system. :-(
13:19:18< akh> Or we need a way to generate binaries more rapidly.
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13:32:39< drm> RangerRick?
13:32:44-!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink
13:38:56< RangerRick> drm: yeah?
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13:40:52< drm> RangerRick: is it fair to assume that postgresql-ssl-foo and dbd-pg-ssl-pm packages in 10.4-transitional/unstable/crypto are obsolete and should go away?
13:41:08< RangerRick> I believe so, yes
13:41:23< RangerRick> I've gotten some reports of the -581 variants missing and stuff, I still need to investigate
13:41:27< RangerRick> have been out of town since thursday
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13:41:49< drm> i think you took out the main pkgs but not the -perl -python stuff
13:41:51< drm> yeah
13:42:04< drm> ok, will leave you to your investigation...thanks
13:42:11< rand-irc> lo drm
13:42:27< drm> (you might notice that i have disabled the force-gcc-3.3 bit on postgresql, RangerRick)
13:42:32< drm> hi rand-irc
13:42:38< RangerRick> why's that?  there's a c++ lib in the shlibs
13:43:15< drm> rangerrick: because it seems to work fine with g++-4.0... so in 10.4-T it will get g++-3.3 whereas in the uupcoming tree it will get g++-4.0
13:43:21< RangerRick> oh, I see
13:43:24< RangerRick> left GCC: 3.3 in
13:43:27< drm> right
13:43:29< RangerRick> but took out the hardcoded set
13:44:10< drm> exactly... looks a bit weird the way i left if, but setting all the compilers to g++ ensures that the same one is being used in whatever tree is releavant
13:44:15< drm> s/if/it
13:44:18< RangerRick> yeah
13:44:35< RangerRick> that's cool, I'd known I would have to change it, just hadn't gotten around to it yet
13:44:48< RangerRick> was first done in the 10.3 tree and I never fixed it
13:45:00< drm> well, i am getting everything ready for the changeover
13:45:08< RangerRick> yeah
13:45:11< drm> still to do: openoffice.org and kde :/
13:45:13< dmacks_away> Thinking of ABI changeover, is the recent commit of clhep.info a Bad Thing?
13:45:33< drm> dmacks_away: you mean GCC: 4.0? no, that's ok
13:46:05< dmacks_away> SetCXX:g++-4.0 ?
13:46:29< drm> the deal is, if you want a non-default value of GCC in whatever tree, you have to be sure that the correct compiler is used and that all of your dependent libs are compatible... he has done that
13:46:38< dmacks_away> Okay:)
13:46:54< dmacks_away> makes sense
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13:50:01< dmacks> akh: So ethereal in 10.4T/bindist is broken?
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13:50:57< akh> Unless it got fixed and carbon60 didn't do a dist-upgrade.
13:51:24< akh> But I should say not.
13:51:49< dmacks> I see an updated pkg for 0.7.2-current but not for 0.8.0-current
13:51:55< akh> Ah
13:52:10< akh> That would do it.
13:52:40< akh> IIRC the initial problems were reported on 10.3.
13:53:00< akh> I'll take 0.7.2 off the list.
13:53:10< dmacks> drm: Could we get a new ethereal.deb for 10.4T?
13:53:19< carbon60> Man, I'm still building after the selfupdate!
13:53:36< dmacks> akh: Maybe also use <code> instead of <pre> so we don't get those boxes?
13:53:39< akh> carbon60: Yup.
13:53:44< drm> dmacks: sure, if somebody will tell me which version to do
13:53:45< akh> dmacks:  I could.
13:55:17< akh> and did
13:56:37< dmacks> drm: {10.3,10.4T}/{unstable,stable} and 0.7.2-updates all are at 0.10.12-11, may as well do that one.
13:57:42< dmacks> (0.7.2 and 0.8.0 (original release) are 0.10.9-11)
13:57:59< drm> ok, hopefully i can still do updates... gotta figure out which machine to use
13:58:04< dmacks> heh:)
13:58:12< carbon60> Oooh, building ethereal!
13:58:15< drm> (its tricky when i'm not home)
13:58:20< akh> drm: update-as-nobody ?
13:58:28< akh> carbon60: Good.
13:58:36 * carbon60 dances.
13:58:46< dmacks> !lart Wiki tables
13:58:47 * Melian installs a bad bootloader on Wiki tables and turns Wiki tables into a brick
13:59:16< akh> dmacks:  which page?
14:00:03< dmacks> I was gonna add a 0.7.2 entry to the page you just edited, wanted the pkgname to rowspan=2
14:00:18< akh> Ah
14:00:29< drm> dmacks: did you notice that aida-san has told us the solution to the conflicts/replaces/provides problem?
14:00:48< dmacks> drm: Yeah. That's the first I've ever heard the control file field order matters.
14:00:53< drm> me too
14:01:16< drm> i think this is a change which we would need to make at the time of changing trees, since it has an impact of dpkg's behavior
14:01:31< drm> lucky for us, the 10.4 tree hasn't started yet
14:01:45< dmacks> I'm gonna email debian-dev or whatever they're called for confirmation. That feels wrong.
14:02:13< drm> sounds good...keep me posted?
14:02:52< dmacks> Of course.
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14:09:02< dmacks> akh: 'apt-get update' is the solution for 10.3 users, yes? /me can never remember how to use apt...
14:09:26< akh> The solution to what problem?
14:10:00< dmacks> Missing gtk+2 (b/c haven't synced local apt db with server to get newer version)
14:10:28< akh> Ah-the solution is "apt-get update + apt-get upgrade"
14:10:37< akh> (ignore quotes)
14:11:01 * akh is distracted while I look for meters.
14:11:07< dmacks> :)
14:12:17< akh> Cool--found a review that's right up my alley--giant clunky phones.
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15:11:28< dmacks> Die! xmkmf must die! Die! DIE! DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
15:11:53< dmacks> No, we are *not* a VMS system, so feel free to *not* include its pieces!
15:12:00< akh> Melian's back:  go for an 'alicekill'
15:12:01< RangerRick> hah
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15:13:06 * akh flees before dmacks goes ballistic and destroys the internet.
15:13:08< akh> ;-)
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15:38:09< jclerner> how do you create a fink/debian package of a perl module?
15:38:51< RangerRick> see the info files in /sw/fink/dists/unstable/main/finkinfo/libs/perlmods/
15:43:46< jclerner> i can use that to output a .deb file?
15:48:22< RangerRick> use them as examples to create your own info file for the perl module you want, then a 'fink build <yourpackage>' will build a deb out of it
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16:28:49< newmanbe> newmanbe to world! Don't send me Microsoft Word files!
16:29:22< newmanbe> I don't know how somone can think it is a good idea to have a binary file format for text!
16:46:05< runelind> is there a secure ftp client in fink?  
16:46:16< runelind> on second thought
16:46:21< runelind> I wonder if gftp will work
16:47:33< RangerRick> lftp
16:51:27< runelind> the ssl version I'm assuming?
17:06:26< RangerRick> yeah
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17:52:14< dmacks> RangerRick: Does your geoip in 10.3 really need dlcompat?
17:55:36< dmacks> spundun: Could you fix your libsigc++2? It has a busted Shlibs field. I think there's also a newer version available (but it's not critical for me, so no hurry for it:).
17:56:52-!- Darien [n=darien@home.darien.ca] has joined #fink
17:57:04< Darien> is there an easy way to install a dummy package that resolves dependencies?
17:57:23< Darien> I already have MySQL installed and I don't want fink to compile it just for some shared libs
18:05:22-!- megahal [i=foobar@ip-246-036.oberlin.net] has joined #fink
18:07:22< pogma> Darien: you have mysql installed in /sw/lib ?
18:07:40< Darien> pogma: sure don't
18:07:46< Darien> I'm using the official binaries
18:07:49< pogma> Darien: then there is no easy way
18:07:57< Darien> :/
18:23:56< Murr> you COULD presumably write a system-mysql package the way system-tetex works
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18:34:16< pogma> Murr: he asked for an _easy_ way :)
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19:02:44< Murr> pogma it sure would be an easy way for US
19:03:34< dmacks> Murr: heh
19:10:40< dmacks> If anyone has 10.3 w/non-Apple x11, I'd love to hear if xpaint-2.7.8.1 compiles with --build-as-nobody
19:16:57< newmanbe> If it doesn't require oodles of dependencies I will.
19:17:41< newmanbe> Hmm, doesn't seem too bad.
19:18:15< dmacks> It's a pretty simplistic program.
19:18:59< newmanbe> All but one of the dependencies are avaliable as binaries. :)
19:19:16< dmacks> Even better
19:20:52< newmanbe> Who ever came up with the default colors for emacs was not thinking.
19:21:14< newmanbe> The only preset color scheme in Terminal.app that works is black on white.
19:22:58< dmacks> Get a green or amber monitor.
19:23:05< newmanbe> Green doesn't work.
19:23:08< newmanbe> Red might.
19:23:27 * newmanbe wonders how to expand packages with --build-as-nobody.
19:23:45< dmacks> ?
19:24:09< newmanbe> Unpacking the file xv-3.10a.tar.gz of package xv-3.10a-23 failed. The most likely cause
19:24:16< newmanbe> for this is a corrupted or incomplete download. Do you want to delete the tarball and
19:24:28< newmanbe> That happened when I tried to build umn-gopher with --build as nobody too.
19:25:06< dmacks> I bet the tarball isn't world-readable
19:25:16< newmanbe> That's silly.
19:25:25< dmacks> (or some part of its directory hierarchy isn't)
19:26:15< newmanbe> Other is +r.
19:26:23< cirdan> chmod -R 4777 / # and smile
19:26:53< newmanbe> As a rule I don't use octal permissions. ;)
19:27:01 * dmacks wonders if phase_unpack should check readability before trying to expand.
19:27:10< cirdan> chmod a+rw /
19:27:16< cirdan> -R
19:27:21< dmacks> rwX
19:29:03< newmanbe> dmacks: It did not work. Your package is broken.
19:29:08< newmanbe> You need to redo it.
19:29:54< dmacks> crikey, dude...I've read better error reports on -beginners.
19:30:31< newmanbe> Hey! I even told you the error message I got.
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20:45:10< akh> dmacks:  I'm trying xpaint on 10.4.2, via --build-as-nobody, against X.org.
20:49:31< akh> I could do 10.4.3, too, but that's probably not necessary. ;-)
20:49:40< RangerRick> dmacks: probably doesn't
20:53:47< dmacks> akh: Cool thanks:)
20:54:43< dmacks> (I hesitatingly say "10.4.3/xcode2.2 won't change anything about xmkmf:)
21:03:57< akh> You sure?  It could always make it worse.
21:04:05< akh> (if that were possible)
21:04:15< dmacks> Oh I don't think that can be done.
21:10:48< dmacks> gecko2: I'm looking at your new joe.info...Can you patch something or pass a ./configure flag to install the docfiles in the "correct" location instead of just deleting them after they go into %i/etc/joe/doc?
21:11:14< dmacks> ls
21:11:50< akh> no such file or directory ;-)
21:12:18< dmacks> Damn...must've cd-ed to the wrong place.
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21:15:41< dmacks> gecko2: Patch $sysconf_docdir in Makefile.in perhaps?
21:19:59< akh> dmacks:  /me tried to build the wrong version.
21:20:17< akh> So my build failure report would have been meaniningless--trying again
21:20:39< dmacks> Okay, just put that one on -beginners.
21:21:10< akh> And I won't quote my OS, XCode, or anything before "execution of mv failed"
21:21:58< dmacks> Just "Failed: compiling of xpaint...." is sufficient to debug, no?
21:22:38< akh> Yeah.  Everybody knows developers are mind readers.
21:23:34< akh> Gah!  Debian keeps giving me new kernels.
21:24:22 * akh needs to remove a few old ones before my bootloader page is more than 1 screen.
21:24:29< dmacks> heh
21:24:55< akh> Well, it built--that's a good sign.
21:25:05< dmacks> kernel or xpaint?
21:25:10< akh> xpaint (as nobody, I may add)
21:25:42< dmacks> Cool...I don't care about workingitude per se...that'd be independent of OS and X11.
21:25:52< dmacks> (and .deb validates?
21:26:25-!- RangerRick is now known as RangerAway
21:28:20< akh> Package looks good!
21:28:32< dmacks> Great!
21:29:03< akh> That's probably the extremal case.
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21:31:08< akh> silly bots
21:31:58< akh> Time to make important policy changes now that the channel isn't being logged. ;-)
21:32:33< dmacks> Gotta /kick RangerAway first.
21:32:44< akh> Ah, yeah.  ;-)
21:33:32< akh> Unless the decision is something that he'd agree with.
21:33:54< akh> I.e. "let's push all of the dependencies of KDE to stable and damn the consequences!"
21:34:08< dmacks> heh yeah
21:35:46< RangerAway> whoo!
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21:36:59< akh> Yeah, I figured there'd be no objections.
21:37:08< akh> But, shh!  cmeme's back.
21:37:43< akh> dmacks, just for additional info, xpaint even ran for me, too.
21:39:06< dmacks> cool. thx for the test
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21:39:22< akh> And bedtime for /me
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--- Log closed Wed Sep 28 00:00:13 2005

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