--- Log opened Mon Sep 19 00:00:04 2005
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00:42:44< asian> im in a rut  -- im trying to install kdevelop; i installed dmg's for devtools, xcode tools, x11 user, fink commander, and a gcc updater
00:43:15< asian> i left fink.conf with stable to get qt, kdebase, and kdelibs
00:43:37< asian> setting unstable and trying fink install kdevelop i see that i need xfree86 still
00:44:00< asian> so, i remove the unstable to install binaries for xfree86 stable, but it fails because i already have x11 for apple
00:44:26< asian> first of all, am i doing this wrong? if i am, what do i do? if i am doing this correctly, how can i remove x11 for apple?
00:44:43< asian> --the entire purpose of this is to get kdevelop running, i dont care about not having x11
00:45:24< vasi> asian, ok the issue is that you need both X11 user and sdk
00:45:35< vasi> so you can either install both from fink (xfree86 or xorg) or both from Apple
00:45:41< asian> the skd from the adc download center?
00:46:00< vasi> if you're running Tiger, it's on the XCode DVD
00:46:01< asian> well, i already have the x11 for apple, it would seem more simple to get the sdk
00:46:04< asian> no, 10.3
00:46:16< vasi> um, i think you can get it from ADC then, but i could be wrong
00:46:37< asian> alright, if i cant find the x11 sdk on adc, how would i remove x11 for apple properly?
00:47:04< vasi> sudo rm -rf /etc/X11 /usr/X11R6 /Applications/Uilities/X11.app
00:47:19< vasi> except it might be /Applications/X11.app , i don't remember the exact location
00:47:35< vasi> note that compiling xorg is really really long, so you're really best off finding the SDK
00:47:39< asian> no prob, i can find it
00:47:48< asian> k, ill try that first
00:47:53< asian> much appreciated !!!
00:48:31< vasi> np :-)
00:49:27< asian> k, im out, wish me luck! =)
00:49:30< asian> thank you again
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03:41:25-!- Experimen is now known as Ramtha
03:41:30< Ramtha> Hi all
03:41:34< Ramtha> Need to know something
03:41:57< Ramtha> I'm having a failiure on libshout
03:42:14< Ramtha> Now, I don't really care about it, I'm not bothered about icecast
03:42:31< Ramtha> But it's stopping me from building the rest of the KDE convenience package
03:42:43< Ramtha> How do I skip it and continue with the rest of the bundle?
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04:45:36< Ramtha> Hi all
04:45:36< Ramtha> [09:41] 	Ramtha	Need to know something
04:45:36< Ramtha> [09:41] 	Ramtha	I'm having a failiure on libshout
04:45:36< Ramtha> [09:42] 	Ramtha	Now, I don't really care about it, I'm not bothered about icecast
04:45:36< Ramtha> [09:42] 	Ramtha	But it's stopping me from building the rest of the KDE convenience package
04:45:36< Ramtha> [09:42] 	Ramtha	How do I skip it and continue with the rest of the bundle?
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05:24:11< Ramtha> Anyone home?
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05:46:14< baba> anyone
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06:15:19< Ramtha> Anyone home?
06:15:35< newmanbe> Yes.
06:15:43< Ramtha> Hi
06:16:02< newmanbe> Hello.
06:16:07< Ramtha> I'm having a fail on libshout
06:16:22< Ramtha> I don;t really want to use icecast
06:16:27< Ramtha> I'm installing kde-bundle
06:16:40< Ramtha> And it's stopping me from compiling the rest of the convenience package
06:16:45< Ramtha> How do I skip it?
06:19:51< newmanbe> Wait for someone who is awake enough to answer that. :)
06:20:17< Ramtha> k
06:20:18< Ramtha> thanks
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06:28:30< Ramtha> hi
06:29:33< Ramtha> I'm having a fail on libshout when compiling bundle-kde, but I'm not bothered about using icecast.  How do I skip it and continue installing the rest of the convenience package?
06:29:57< newmanbe> Ramtha: They've noticed.
06:30:29< Ramtha> Yeah I'm just pasting my question in one line so I can repeat it if someone else joins.  I'm getting edgy :)
06:30:44< Ramtha> It's day 5 of the build and I'm feeling close to being able to actually use it )
06:31:30< Ramtha> So far, despite days of compiling and waiting, I've managed to have xorg hang for a while and then quit.  Ahh the joys of compiling KDE
06:31:55 * newmanbe just doesn't stand the people who like using the mouse anymore.
06:32:01< newmanbe> s/stand/understand/
06:32:22< Ramtha> Hehe
06:32:46< Ramtha> I hear ya, but I figured if I could get gnome to run I'd tackle KDE too
06:32:55< Ramtha> ]It's proving harder.
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06:37:25< asari> Ramtha: hi
06:37:30< Ramtha> hey
06:37:55< asari> if you have no time, my unofficial binary may help you
06:38:05< Ramtha> really?
06:38:09< Ramtha> That's cool
06:38:10< asari> http://fink.sodan.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/apt/10.3/unstable/main/binary-darwin-powerpc/libs/libshout4_2.0-1_darwin-powerpc.deb
06:38:19< Ramtha> Be gentle with me I'm totally out of my depth
06:38:23< Ramtha> How do I install that?
06:38:47< Ramtha> ahh binary of libshout, not KDE
06:38:49< newmanbe> dpkg --install /path
06:39:46< Ramtha> How do I download that?
06:39:49< asari> and libshout4-shlibs_2.0-1_darwin-powerpc.deb
06:40:06< Ramtha> same path for shlibs?
06:40:14< asari> yeah
06:41:20< asari> download debs and dpkg -i /path/to/libshout4-shlibs_2.0-1_darwin-powerpc.deb
06:41:46< asari> or need "libshout" instead of "libshout4"?
06:41:56< Ramtha> Sorry you're loosing me
06:42:29< Ramtha> Is there a terminal command for download from that link?
06:42:48< asari> curl -O http://fink.sodan.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/apt/10.3/unstable/main/binary-darwin-powerpc/libs/libshout4_2.0-1_darwin-powerpc.deb
06:43:05< Ramtha> curl!!  Cool,  I knew I'd find out what that did sooner or later
06:43:20< Ramtha> where will it save to?
06:43:42< asari> to the current directory
06:43:48< Ramtha> cool
06:44:54< asari> ( /me doesn't understand "loose" .. I don't do well at English class :)
06:45:36< Ramtha> I was getting confused.  I'm new to fink.  I'm new to terminal.  I'm new to everything :)
06:45:44< asari> I see
06:46:28< Ramtha> I typed: sudo dpkg --install /libshout4_2.0-1_darwin-powerpc.deb
06:46:30< Ramtha> It said:
06:46:39< Ramtha> dpkg: parse error, in file `/sw/var/lib/dpkg/status' near line 2587 package `automake1.9':
06:46:39< Ramtha>  missing version
06:46:59< asari> ah you are really a newbee!
06:47:04< Ramtha> Ohh yes
06:48:26< asari> Did you already download 2 debs?
06:48:55< Ramtha> What would be the full curl path for shlibs?
06:49:32< asari> just like libshout4, 
06:49:43< Ramtha> k
06:50:16< Ramtha> OK I got both debs
06:50:30< asari> sudo dpkg --install libshout4_2.0-1_darwin-powerpc.deb  libshout4-shlibs_2.0-1_darwin-powerpc.deb
06:51:01< Ramtha> parse error, in file `/sw/var/lib/dpkg/status' near line 2587 package `automake1.9':
06:51:01< Ramtha>  missing version
06:51:16< baba> asari-san: include no miru junjo tte, kaerareru?
06:51:58< asari> un
06:52:10< baba> CFLAGS toka?
06:52:26< asari> -I/sw/include -I/sw/path/to/include -> -I/sw/path/include -I/sw/include ni nareba ii desuyone
06:52:39< baba> so so
06:53:08< asari> CPPFLAGS ja dame desita?
06:53:22< baba> currently, i have CFLAGS, CXXFLAGS and CPPFLAGS, also have some more set in ./configure
06:53:26< baba> etto
06:53:44< asari> mixture of English/Japanese :)
06:53:51< baba> %b no naka wo mite hoshii ga, CFLAGS de %p/include shitei shite shimatteru
06:54:04< baba> wahhahha
06:54:09< baba> nihongo rulez
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06:55:07< asari> tabun CPPFLAGS="-I. -I%p/include"
06:55:22< asari> aa,
06:55:24< baba> SetCFLAGS: -I%b/gcore -I%p/include     #kana .info teki ni
06:55:26< asari>  CFLAGS ne
06:55:41< baba> CPPFLAGS no hou ga ii?
06:55:54< baba> (and CXXFLAGS)
06:56:32< asari> futsuu wa CPPFLAGS wo tsukau to omou keredo..
06:56:44< asari> nanika riyuu ga aru nodeshou
06:58:31< baba> iro iro tameshite mimasu
07:00:14< asari> Ramtha: still here?
07:00:19< Ramtha> Ya
07:00:21< Ramtha> hi
07:01:13< asari> I didn't notice that at the first time.. but it seems
07:01:15< asari> your package database is broken, I guess...
07:01:21< Ramtha> ok
07:01:25< Ramtha> bad news?
07:01:37< baba> hehe
07:01:43< asari> yeah
07:01:49< Ramtha> How has that happened?
07:01:55< Ramtha> I didn't touch a thing
07:02:04< Ramtha> I just left it running for like 5 days
07:02:47< Ramtha> How do I fix it?
07:03:02< asari> sorry I don't know :(
07:03:11< Ramtha> OK
07:03:17< Ramtha> Thanks anyway dude
07:03:39< Ramtha> I think that draws a line under my use of fink
07:03:51< Ramtha> It's a nice idea, but it's just not ready for idiots like me
07:03:56< Ramtha> Thanks again.  Jim.
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07:04:12< asari> next time, ask someone "parse error, in file `/sw/var/lib/dpkg/status' near line 2587 package `automake1.9': missing version"
07:04:18< asari> ... gone
07:04:23< baba> too l8
07:08:37< asari> I also want to know how to fix the dpkg DB.
07:09:33< asari> One time I did vi /sw/var/lib/dpkc/status by hand,
07:10:09< asari> and one time I did rm -rf /sw
07:19:25< baba> now, hack debian
07:23:14< asari> ah, I forgot to tell him to try copy /sw/var/lib/dpkg/status-old 
07:24:08< asari> (in my case, status-old seemed corrupted too)
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08:42:00-!- RangerAway is now known as RangerRick
08:51:34< RangerRick> Melian: yar!
08:51:42< RangerRick> dang
08:54:49< akh> !yar
08:56:19< RangerRick> I set it
08:56:26< RangerRick> but it didn't stick, guess melian's broken again
08:56:28< RangerRick> http://ranger.befunk.com/pics/Veendam/ben-pirate.jpg
08:56:31< RangerRick> YAR!
09:02:22< asari> hi RangerRick
09:03:51< RangerRick> avast, asari 
09:04:13< asari> new greeting!
09:05:43 * asari consults a dictionary
09:06:07< RangerRick> asari: today is Talk Like a Pirate day: http://www.talklikeapirate.com/
09:06:12< RangerRick> (you scallywag)
09:06:52< asari> ah!
09:07:20< akh> RangerRick: Ar!  It be me dad's birthday, too!
09:07:57< asari> akh: say merry christmas to him!
09:08:09< akh> heh
09:12:16 * akh proposes that we either 1) make a policy to refuse help to people who use random .info/patch files they find on the 'net, or 2) If there's a listed maintainer we cc them on the thread until they get a clue.
09:12:34< asari> According to FAQ, I must say "Aarrr!"
09:12:44< akh> Aye.
09:13:16< akh> Ti's a scurvy trick to release those "pirate" package descriptions.  ;-)
09:13:23< akh> (oops--bad punctuation)
09:13:33< baba> akh: what does "Same OS" mean in download/upgrade.en.php?
09:14:47< RangerRick> akh: sounds reasonable to me
09:14:53< RangerRick> akh: I say we just make them walk the plank
09:15:24< akh> baba: it means not also upgrading, say, from 10.3 -> 10.4
09:15:38< akh> (as "same" as it gets)
09:15:58< akh> I consider 10.3 and 10.4 "different", by that criterion.
09:16:10< akh> (10.4.1 and 10.4.2 would still be the "same")
09:16:21< baba> ah i got it
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09:19:00< baba> akh: why don't we put all upgrade.*.php to upgrade-old.%1.php?
09:19:18< akh> baba: Sounds fine to me.
09:19:33< baba> okay
09:19:46< baba> seems many translators have gone..
09:19:54< akh> Yes.
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09:21:02< baba> asari: let's get foreigners at todai!
09:21:29< asari> well, many foreigners here
09:22:03< baba> especially those who study Information Science or whatever
09:22:03< asari> we should PR like "todai fink team wants you"
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09:25:36 * akh forwards to the bilge-rat who put out the package that we're getting reports on today.
09:26:06< akh> (I pity the fool who reads the logs ;-) )
09:26:22< RangerRick> hah
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09:36:33 * akh wonders if "talk like a pirate" would also include talking as a purveyor of warez...
09:37:00< akh> Seems not quite as fun.
09:39:11< asari> forget about it, we live on open source
09:39:28< akh> Yeah.
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10:25:25< dmacks> cirdan: guy on -beginners says new cdrdao is (functionally) broken.
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10:40:45< dmacks> !seen vasi
10:40:45< Melian> dmacks: i haven't seen 'vasi'
10:41:00< dmacks> Riiight
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11:06:50 * akh finds it unsettling when a Fink package is a later version than my Linux distro--especially if the file standards change.
11:07:01< akh> (oh, and Yar!)
11:07:12< dmacks> heh:)
11:07:35< cirdan> dmacks: can u gimme the error/fwd the mail;?
11:07:55< dmacks> akh: new cvs works fine for me on 10.3 (compiled and used on HFS+ only). You might want to add --disable-dependency-tracking to ConfigureParams...makes the build go faster.
11:08:02< dmacks> cirdan: No, you can RTFML yourself.
11:08:14< dmacks> (or use gmane:)
11:08:31< cirdan> or just ignore it until he decides to contact the maintainer :-p
11:08:38< cirdan> !archie
11:08:44< cirdan> !archive
11:08:53< akh> dmacks:  OK--sounds good.  That doesn't require a new %r, I assume?
11:08:58< dmacks> akh: Correct.
11:09:08< cirdan> !list
11:11:16< dmacks> bot's dead dude
11:12:25< cirdan> grrr
11:12:25< cirdan> stupid mysql upgrade
11:12:26< cirdan> Melian: die
11:12:49-!- Melian [n=blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["adios amigos"]
11:13:29< akh> Which thread?
11:13:54-!- Melian [n=blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink
11:14:37< dmacks> "cdrdao 1.2.0 problem"
11:15:54< akh> Ah
11:16:12< cirdan> Melian: archive
11:16:13< Melian> archive is probably http://news.gmane.org/index.php?prefix=gmane.os.apple.fink
11:16:24< akh> !botsnack
11:16:25< Melian> akh: thanks
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11:22:41< cirdan> dmacks: the user prolly just needs to stop using the --driver flag
11:22:50< cirdan> PEBKAC
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11:26:33< akh> Blast those flag-adding scurvy users.
11:26:44< cirdan> hehe
11:27:03 * cirdan sends those flag-adding users scurvy
11:27:12< akh> heh
11:28:00< cirdan> yeah...i just read a music cd...cdrdao is fine
11:29:00< dmacks> If it weren't for users and upstream authors, fink would be much easier to maintain.
11:29:26< akh> haha.
11:30:23< akh> Yeah--someone should make a distro of packages without any upstream development.
11:30:28< akh> The Anti-gnome.
11:31:25< Gardner> Wouldn't that be "Fork" rather than "Fink"?
11:31:29< dmacks> "anti-gnome" is just some RNA-based life-forms?
11:32:37< akh> Gardner: Good point
11:33:15< akh> dmacks: heh--though I was thinking "Fully maintained by the project, with static upstream" rather than the reverse.
11:33:20-!- shres [n=sshreyas@59.92.128.193] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
11:33:34< akh> (at least for much of the time)
11:33:47< akh> (not recently)
11:36:47 * akh thinks we should try to find someone with good skills and no social life to be the permanent GNOME maintainer.
11:39:29< cirdan> RangerRick! 
11:39:34< cirdan> he can do kde+gnome
11:39:36< cirdan> :-)
11:39:42< cirdan> and all they depend on
11:39:54< RangerRick> hah
11:39:56< Gardner> Nah, he's not wacko elitist enough.
11:40:34< cirdan> uhh...hi..rang	
11:40:38< cirdan> :-)
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11:41:27< asari> ah, Captain Ranger, can you update fink-mirrors?
11:41:51< asari> new mirror is available here!
11:42:13< cirdan> yay
11:42:45< cirdan> ok, we need drom and pogma, then can vote to get rid of finkmirrors.net and use whatever the mirror providers give us
11:42:53< cirdan> unoless we get official controlled by us boxen
11:43:27< asari> aye-aye sir
11:44:02< asari> is finkmirrors.net now completely uncontrollable?
11:44:38< dmacks> It's out of control, man! It's headed straight at us! Run!!!!!
11:44:54< asari> heeeee!
11:45:48< cirdan> *CRUNCH*
11:46:00< cirdan> A/me looks for a house...
11:46:18-!- chris01 [n=chris01@84-73-56-45.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #fink
11:47:32< cirdan> bbl
11:48:05 * akh thought he was looking for a lighthouse
11:48:26< asari> time to bed. bye all.
11:48:53< akh> good night
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12:38:34< dmacks> Arrrrrr! Happy Talk-Like-A-Pirate Day, Maties!
12:40:32< akh> yar
12:48:31-!- das_ [i=das@sparky.doit.wisc.edu] has joined #fink
12:59:32< RangerRick> yar!
12:59:37< RangerRick> xar!
13:04:35< akh> heh
13:04:56< akh> We've got that now, btw.
13:06:26< dmacks> Great! We can use it in depstool/ensemble.
13:06:30-!- chris01 [n=chris01@84-73-56-45.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit ["Computer went to sleep..."]
13:07:21< akh> If we had the latter...
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14:02:11-!- vasi [n=vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink
14:04:21< akh> Ar, it be vasi!
14:04:27< vasi> hiya
14:04:39< dmacks> Ahoy, matey from the great north!
14:05:38< vasi> uh...is it talk like a pirate day already?
14:05:44< dmacks> Bingo.
14:07:31< dmacks> vasi: I experiemented with different PV:: classes for different Types...everything slowed down the indexer to some degree and/or made the code harder to maintain and/or imposed limits on future uses of Type fields.
14:07:59-!- zecke_ [n=ich@83-169-171-130-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #fink
14:08:02< zecke_> hey
14:08:11< zecke_> first of all congrats on fink
14:08:15< dmacks> alo zecke_!
14:08:30< zecke_> dmacks: hey
14:08:37< dmacks> Glad you like it:)
14:08:42< vasi> dmacks, is class creation really that slow? (were you caching?)
14:08:42< zecke_> dmacks: congrats on cinergy t2 as well
14:09:36< dmacks> vasi: Any time I gotta do if/else/else planning for every package, that's slow, especially since most users won't ever need most of the resulting data.
14:09:49< vasi> but yeah, the biggest problem to my eyes is making sure that mixins interact well....eg: how does perlModuleBuild say 'nuh-uh, don't listen to that perl type when he tells you what the compilescript should be'
14:10:19< vasi> dmacks, i was thinking we would just re-bless on load_fields()?
14:10:45< dmacks> Right. I came up with lotsa trivial examples of mixed types where, depending on which field one was accessing, different ones would override, or wrap the others.
14:10:55-!- atheken [n=atheken@rrcs-24-123-50-242.central.biz.rr.com] has joined #fink
14:11:08< dmacks> It became "we can use this mechanism for cases where it's not too hard to do so"
14:11:29< dmacks> ...and most type classes had to know intimate details about others.
14:11:40< atheken> RangerRick -> are you there?
14:11:56< vasi> dmacks, wrapping isn't hard with NEXT.pm
14:12:05< vasi> (which is standard on 5.8.1+, i think)
14:12:25< vasi> it's just deciding what should have priority that's hard
14:12:54< dmacks> But wrappers may have to know details about what they're wrapping. That's simple in a consolidated PV like we have now, and ridiculous with actual classes.
14:13:45-!- ambs_ [n=ambs@bl5-161-101.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #fink
14:13:52< vasi> yeah i guess...i'm just not happy with scattering 'if ($self->is_type('foo')) { ... }' all over PkgVersion
14:15:47< dmacks> The scattering makes it super-easy to read PV, and to implement new Types. Don't have to parse through the top-level class factory (or whatever) to figure out what class(es) to bother reading, then read every one to see where something actually happens for a given example, or all the implications and changes needed to add a new one.
14:16:16< vasi> the current system makes it easy to implement new Types!? you must be kidding
14:16:44< atheken> lisppaste:url
14:16:45< lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
14:17:06< dmacks> Not kidding at all...I just add a new case to each place it's needed...all existing cases for a given field are already written in a single block of code.
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14:18:58< vasi> hmm, i think what i'm really caring about is not so much 'let's class-ify this!'
14:19:11< vasi> but really 'PkgVersion is too long and crowded'
14:19:17-!- cirdan [n=chris@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
14:19:42< dmacks> Good. I was getting a bit concerned (both about PV's mess and the real goal here:)
14:19:50< vasi> ok, what about if i just start splitting stuff off from PkgVersion into other packages, and put them all in @ISA?
14:20:09< vasi> so the building stuff can live in Fink/PkgVersion/Build.pm
14:20:19< vasi> and the type stuff in Fink/PkgVersion/Type.pm
14:20:28< lisppaste> atheken pasted "Fink installed MonoDevelop will not load." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11813
14:20:38< atheken> anybody have any ideas?
14:20:49< dmacks> Moving stuff into new .pm and @ISAing them back into an effective single .pm
14:20:50< dmacks> ?
14:20:56< vasi> dmacks, basically
14:21:10< vasi> it's just to have a logical separation for the benefit of ppl working on the code
14:21:21< vasi> not to establish any new wacky semantics
14:21:21-!- cirdan [n=chris@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink
14:21:36< vasi> atheken: export DYLD_FALLBACK_LIBRARY_PATH=:
14:21:42< dmacks> Makes it that much harder to find a given sub. Just allocate more RAM for your editor:)
14:22:13< atheken> vasi: nope.
14:22:14< vasi> um....you think it's easy to find a single piece of code in a 5000 line file!?
14:22:42< dmacks> Easier than finding it in 5 1000-line files.
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14:22:54< vasi> not if they're split logically rather than randomly :-)
14:23:19< dmacks> true
14:23:55< dmacks> It would be great to boot the resolver engine outa there.
14:23:59< cirdan> 1000 5-line files!
14:24:09< dmacks> heh
14:24:25< vasi> lol
14:24:26< cirdan> and all in perl golf!
14:24:27< dmacks> 5000 1-line files, each with the 30-line copyright block?
14:24:50< cirdan> dmacks: no, but they are all rot%25
14:24:53< cirdan> :-)
14:25:09 * dmacks prefers double-rot13
14:25:38< cirdan> dmacks: BCD!
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14:26:26 * cirdan hopes his cp's finish soon...
14:26:44< dmacks> 6502 decimal-mode.
14:26:56< cirdan> moving TBs of data on sw raids != fun
14:27:00< cirdan> hmm
14:27:11 * cirdan got preapproved for $110000 morgage...
14:27:28< cirdan> now to find a dwelling for much less than that :-)
14:28:25< dmacks> Just break into one and kill the family, then tell the judge that you'd pre-purchased the place and that you were pre-evicting t hem.
14:28:36< cirdan> haha
14:28:38< vasi> oy
14:28:43< cirdan> by a pre death?
14:28:49< dmacks> Exactly.
14:29:24< cirdan> hmm, wonder if i could get pre-aquited
14:29:34< dmacks> heh
14:30:02 * cirdan is prolly gonna be in LA in 2 weeks or so...
14:30:11< cirdan> (the state, not city :-)  )
14:30:21-!- brainsik [n=brainsik@dsl092-001-132.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #fink
14:30:22< dmacks> :)
14:30:28< vasi> yikes
14:30:35< cirdan> hope they have cell service still :-)
14:30:55< akh> Depends on where you go.
14:31:17-!- ambs_ [n=ambs@bl5-161-101.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
14:31:48< cirdan> new orleans or so
14:32:04< dmacks> Why?
14:32:12< cirdan> national guard
14:32:17< dmacks> Ah.
14:32:20< cirdan> get good money
14:32:23< cirdan> :-)
14:32:39< dmacks> Doesn't NG have its own communication systems?
14:32:42< cirdan> i can double-dip for 90 work days/year
14:32:49< dmacks> nice!
14:33:00< cirdan> dmacks: yeah, but i dunno if #fink is allowed on that line ;-)
14:33:04< dmacks> heh:)
14:33:58< cirdan> so...i got some caffine to go w/my ephedra
14:34:00< cirdan> mmmm....
14:34:11< cirdan> really amplifies it
14:34:26< dmacks> Dunno why.../me read that as "levitra".
14:34:34< akh> Freudian slip?
14:34:53< cirdan> haha
14:34:59< dmacks> :p
14:35:27 * dmacks was at Eagles game yesterday, everywhere I looked was levitra ads
14:35:28< cirdan> dmacks: that's juct cause u like a perkoset + beer
14:35:49< vasi> the brainwashing has started
14:36:13< cirdan> brain?
14:36:36< dmacks> Yes, pinky?
14:36:38-!- ambs_ [n=ambs@bl5-161-101.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #fink
14:36:41< vasi> heh
14:36:46< akh> lol
14:36:58< cirdan> *Narf!*
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14:37:29< akh> "Try to take over OpenSource Packaging on the Mac!"
14:38:20< taf2_> i need to install autoconf2.13 on tiger... how can i figure out what package name to use... tried: fink install autoconf2.13 and autoconf-2.13 no luck...
14:38:42< cirdan> taf2_: fink list autoconf
14:38:50< taf2_> cirdan: thanks :-)
14:41:29< taf2_> hmm... next problem, it appears autoconf2.13 conflicts with autoconf2.54 :-(
14:41:29< cirdan> yes
14:41:29< cirdan> but they should replace each other
14:41:29< dmacks> remove autoconf2.54?
14:41:29< mcp> good evening
14:41:29< taf2_> yeah, gonna try that
14:43:15< taf2_> automake 1.9 depends on autoconf2.54 ...
14:43:15< vasi> hmm, so go or no on the splitting of PV?
14:43:15< akh> taf2_: Do you need both?
14:43:15< taf2_> fails to remove autoconf2.54... any ideas how many deps ?
14:43:15< dmacks> remove automake1.9?
14:43:15< taf2_> akh: well, i just need to install autoconf2.13 to build mozilla 1.7
14:43:15< taf2_> dmacks: yes but then what?
14:43:15< dmacks> (there'a a --recursive option for removal)
14:43:15< dmacks> Then try again.
14:43:15< taf2_> dmacks: ah cool
14:43:16< akh> taf2_: That's the only package that I know of which depends on autoconf2.54
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14:48:56-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis
14:48:56-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005]
14:48:56[Users #fink]
14:48:56[ Airo      ] [ cirdan  ] [ gopherd     ] [ lisppaste] [ pogma     ] [ usataway] 
14:48:56[ akh       ] [ cls     ] [ gzl         ] [ mcp      ] [ rajesh    ] [ vasi    ] 
14:48:56[ Albie     ] [ cmeme   ] [ Henk_Pol1y  ] [ mdmonk   ] [ RangerRick] [ zecke_  ] 
14:48:56[ atheken   ] [ das_    ] [ htodd       ] [ mee_bot  ] [ RLD_osx   ] [ zorton  ] 
14:48:56[ BleedAway ] [ dmacks  ] [ jack-       ] [ megahal  ] [ runelind  ] 
14:48:56[ brainsik  ] [ eno-away] [ JosephSpiros] [ nkuttler ] [ sid77     ] 
14:48:56[ brendan   ] [ Erik____] [ jtyler__    ] [ og       ] [ swix_     ] 
14:48:56[ cianhughes] [ gecko2  ] [ KraMer      ] [ pnorman  ] [ taf2_     ] 
14:48:56-!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 44 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 44 normal]
14:48:58-!- [freenode-info] Welcome Tor users! Please stop by #tor to compare notes and to report any freenode Tor problems.
14:49:09-!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug  3 17:57:20 2003
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14:52:49< lisppaste> mcp pasted "libshout4 configure error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11815
14:55:42< dmacks> mcp: I think there have been threads about libshout-vs-vorbis on the -beginners mailing list in the past few days.
14:56:20< mcp> oh
14:56:21< mcp> ok, I'll look there. thanks :)
14:56:26 * dmacks can't remember details, or if there was a definitive solution yet.
14:58:11< brainsik> Does anyone here use remote screen sessions?
14:58:25< vasi> yeah
15:00:11< cirdan> i do
15:01:08< brainsik> Do graphics characters turn out exactly right for you? Inside a screen session I get small spaces between things like corners, tees, pipes, etc (the chars that make boxes), outside of screen they are fine. I can't figure out what needs to be fixed.
15:01:29< vasi> never seen that
15:02:06< cirdan> brainsik: use a different font
15:02:21< cirdan> or a setting is weird
15:02:38< cirdan> terminal.app?
15:02:38< brainsik> i don't understand what the font has to do with it if it looks fine outside of screen
15:02:47< brainsik> yes Terminal.app
15:02:52< cirdan> change the char encoding from utf to ASCII, iirc
15:02:53< cirdan> or use a different terminal
15:02:59< cirdan> :-)
15:03:03< brainsik> what do you use?
15:03:10< cirdan> or even try screen -U
15:03:13< cirdan> i use konsole
15:03:17< brainsik> i am using screen -U
15:03:18< brainsik> argh
15:03:23< cirdan> ah, maybe don't use screen -u then :-)
15:03:24< brainsik> :)
15:03:47< brainsik> i think i've tried it both ways
15:03:55< brainsik> yeah
15:04:00< cirdan> i changed the char encoding before...
15:04:00< cirdan> fixed it i believe
15:07:57< brainsik> any idea what you did before?
15:08:28< cirdan> yeah, changed the char encoding terminal.app uses
15:08:33< brainsik> hmm
15:09:18< brainsik> it's not clear that i'd want something other then UTF8
15:09:46< mcp> dmacks: thanks, I've read the thread and installed the binary version of libogg and now libshout is configurable. funny :)
15:11:20< dmacks> mcp: Glad it worked!
15:12:16< brainsik> aha!!!!
15:12:20< brainsik> damn, i found it
15:12:29< brainsik> i don't understand it, but i found it
15:13:33< runelind> main fink mirror pooched?
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15:15:29< dmacks> runelind: How 'bout an example of what you're seeing?
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15:20:38< akh_> urgh--/me needs an auto-scanpackages option,
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15:25:38< akh> hmm
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15:44:28< dmacks> Does x.org or xfree86 have the DAMAGE or XFIXES extensions?
15:47:16< akh> I thought X.org did, but wasn't sure if RangerRick put that in.
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16:02:39< cirdan> xorg has damage.,...
16:02:49< dmacks> aw crap
16:02:53< cirdan> xdpyinfo  | less
16:03:11< cirdan> ?
16:03:36< dmacks> got a pkg that optionally includes damage support, no flag to disable it.
16:03:58< RangerRick> I don't know that they actually work on darwin
16:04:11< RangerRick> since the x server has to understand them as well
16:04:14< RangerRick> and the x server is a custom thing on OSX  :)
16:04:52< dmacks> Hmm...OTOH, packages compiled on x.org already aren't functional with Apple X11, so...uh...whatever:)
16:05:07< dmacks> I guess?
16:05:49< RangerRick> in the same way that an X program run remotely to a server that only supports older extensions still works, x programs run locally to the apple x11 server still work
16:06:52< dmacks> True. I was thinking more about packaging consistentency issues. I don't care if the thing isn't completely functional.
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16:15:59< cirdan> we really need autoshlibs
16:16:21< cirdan> then all x11 packages can be auto-variented with correct deps
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16:35:19< dmacks> Is there a flag for diff that keeps it from adding date fields to the headers?
16:36:12< dmacks> Or could we patch syncmail (or even the commit processor itself?) to remove that data?
16:36:43< dmacks> dmacks's modem glares at RangerRick:)
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17:28:02< atheken> RangerRick -> new errors.
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18:30:24< sugoi> im using x11 for apple, and i need "the" or "a" sdk (not sure how to phrase it)
18:30:44< sugoi> fink install kdevelop says i need xfree86, but someone told me here that i just need the/a sdk
18:30:48< sugoi> not sure which one to get
18:30:52< newmanbe> The or a?
18:31:07< newmanbe> You need the SDK if you want to build from source.
18:31:18< sugoi> .MAC SDK?
18:31:22< sugoi> or is there an X11 skd
18:31:25< sugoi> sdk*
18:31:36< newmanbe> No.
18:31:41< newmanbe> Yes, there is.
18:31:48< newmanbe> Or, you can install XFree86 or X.org from fink.
18:31:57< sugoi> yeah....
18:32:02< sugoi> but that would take a while ...
18:32:23< newmanbe> Hmm, I didn't think xorg took that long to build.
18:32:55< sugoi> so you're suggesting i rm the dir for x11, and then install xorg?
18:33:24 * newmanbe shurgs.
18:33:26< sugoi> but if i could only find the right binary for the needed sdk, i wouldn't have to build anything =(
18:33:33< newmanbe> s/shurgs/shrugs/
18:33:35< newmanbe> That is what I would do.
18:33:37< sugoi> k
18:34:01< newmanbe> The X11 SDK is probably an optional install for Apple Developer Tools.
18:34:25< sugoi> which cd i can't find...
18:34:51< newmanbe> You could download it...
18:34:52< newmanbe> !adc
18:34:54< Melian> Go to http://connect.apple.com/ to download the latest developer tool updates.  You will need to create an account, but registration is free.
18:34:56< sugoi> searching now
18:34:57< newmanbe> !xcode
18:34:58< newmanbe> Melian: test
18:34:58< Melian> No, newmanbe, you're not online any more.
18:35:00< sugoi> i've been looking on adc
18:38:41< sugoi> i read on fink.sourceforge.net ... Under fink-0.16.2, you will need to install the X11 SDK package, as well. After you do this, Fink will create a system-xfree86 virtual package
18:38:49< sugoi> =( but where is this x11 sdk !
18:38:59 * sugoi sniffles
18:39:10< newmanbe> In the XCode download.
18:39:28< sugoi> xcode tools?
18:39:38< sugoi> i installed XcodeTools1.5__CD.dmg already
18:39:53< newmanbe> Is that what it's called? Might be.
18:40:35< sugoi> but i did this already ... thus, is xcodetools not what you're referring to?
18:41:57< sugoi> i also read on developer.apple.com "You should install the X11 SDK as well, which is included on the Panther Developer CD'
18:42:07< sugoi> ...must i find that cd? =(
18:42:15 * sugoi keeps searching
18:46:44< atheken> http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/x11formacosx.html
18:47:05< atheken> ~40MB download.
18:47:17< atheken> anybody running or attempting to run MonoDevelop?
18:47:40< newmanbe> That may or may not have the SDK.
18:47:53< newmanbe> atheken: There apparently have been problems.
18:47:59< atheken> I am having the issue referred to by the the fink FAQ 9.14
18:48:10< atheken> yes, I know.
18:50:35< atheken> what is the command to get gnome to start?
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18:55:56< drm> hey RangerRick
18:56:32< sugoi> sorry i was away
18:57:25< sugoi> atheken: i already downloaded X11User.dmg from that link
18:57:50< atheken> hmmph. that's all I've got installed I think.
18:57:50< sugoi> and i still am required to install xfree86 or xorg in order to install kdevelop
18:58:03< atheken> I see.
18:58:11< atheken> does kdevelop have code completion?
18:58:14< drm> sugoi:which version of OS X are you using?
18:58:20< sugoi> 10.3
18:58:22< sugoi> atheken: no
18:58:47< drm> sugoi: i'm pretty sure that the only "link" to an X11User.dmg is to a version for 10.2, not 10.3
18:59:02< drm> (unless its a link to an illegal copy :/)
18:59:38< drm> there should be a way to install X11 from your 10.3 install disk (or in the /Applications/Installers folder, or maybe /Applications/Utilities/Installers)
18:59:53< sugoi> What’s New in this Version
18:59:58< sugoi> : Bundled: Optional install from the third Mac OS X v10.3 Panther CD. 
19:00:06< sugoi> as i read from the link atheken posted
19:00:18< sugoi> and the installed didn't complain
19:00:21< drm> ah, ok, it was a link to instructions? nevermind
19:00:29< drm> i thought it was a link to an actual .dmg
19:00:34< sugoi> it is
19:00:37< sugoi> i must be confused
19:00:45< sugoi> http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/x11formacosx.html
19:00:53< sugoi> and there is a download option in the bottom right corner
19:01:32< atheken> you can't run it unless you've got OSX anyway - so I can't see why they wouldn't post it.
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19:02:32< sugoi> i have the powerbook g4 install disks 1 and 2, as well as the powerbook g4 software restore disks 1 and 2
19:02:34< drm> sugoi: ok, that didn't used to be there :)... looks good to me
19:02:42< sugoi> would either of those have the sdk i need?
19:02:53< sugoi> drm: alright, i installed that dmg
19:03:04< drm> sugoi: but you need not only X11User but also X11SDK
19:03:05< sugoi> and "fink install kdevelop" says i still need xfree86 or xorg
19:03:12< sugoi> drm: exactly!!!
19:03:15< drm> there are two separate installs
19:03:20< sugoi> where the heck is that?
19:03:26< drm> the X11SDK is an optional install when you install the Developer Tools
19:03:34 * sugoi is excited, not impatient
19:03:39< drm> you can't do "default"
19:03:43< drm> hehe
19:04:06< drm> so re-launch your developer tools installer, and customize
19:04:14< sugoi> optional install, you're saying if i would read carefully when running the install from mounting the dmg, i would have/see an option to install the sdk?
19:04:30< drm> yes: select "custom install" on the second or third screen
19:04:39 * sugoi kicks himself .. softly
19:04:44< sugoi> thank you very much
19:04:48< sugoi> =)
19:05:22< sugoi> for future note, is this also available on any of the four cds i do have in my possesion (refer to the list recently explained)
19:05:25< drm> sorry, with 10.3 i guess its called XCode, not developer tools
19:05:31< sugoi> no prob
19:05:42< drm> sugoi: no, X11SDK is only part of the developer tools
19:05:54< sugoi> xcode!?? , well i already installed XcodeTools1.5__CD.dmg
19:05:55< sugoi> okok
19:06:06< drm> sugoi: right, its a custom install there
19:06:09< sugoi> still different? (referring to xcodE)
19:06:14< sugoi> oh
19:06:16< sugoi> so, not with the X11User.dmg
19:06:23< atheken> sorry.
19:06:24< sugoi> but rather the xcodetools
19:06:45< drm> X11User is a custom install among the 4 CD's you have; X11SDK is a custom install for XCode
19:07:01< atheken> the actual SDK should just be a .pkg you can run.
19:07:06< sugoi> aahhh
19:07:09< sugoi> kk
19:07:20< sugoi> trying it now (will take moment -- have to download to mac off my server backup)
19:07:28< drm> sugoi: you only need X11SDK if you are compiling stuff, so apple doesn't give it to you with the X11User stuff
19:07:39< sugoi> that makes sense
19:07:56< drm> and apple doesn't make X11 available by default at all (i guess they are afraid of confusing people with a different GUI)
19:08:18< drm> RangerRick!
19:08:44< atheken> just the RANGER I was looking for.
19:08:50< atheken> new errors!
19:08:53< atheken> yay!
19:09:29< sugoi> drm: side note, do you know the cmd line option to mount a dmg?
19:10:12< sugoi> im coming from linux (specifically gentoo if you care to know), so some details im still unfamiliar with on macs
19:10:25< atheken> open *.dmg
19:10:40< drm> atheken: that assumes he is not logged on remotely
19:10:44< sugoi> open mounts as well..interesting
19:10:46< sugoi> drm: oh, i am
19:10:47< sugoi> =)
19:11:07< drm> sugoi: "open" is great... "open" takes a file, and opens it with whatever it is supposed to be opened with :)
19:11:22< sugoi> except if im ssh'd in?
19:11:32< drm> when i go back to linux now, i find myself typing "open" and then kicking myself
19:11:41< sugoi> i can use it directly when installing, just was curious about mounting
19:12:00< drm> sugoi: it will still open the file, but launching the installer on the desktop doesn't do you any good if you are ssh'd in
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19:12:10< sugoi> np
19:12:12< akh> drm:  open or launch and "fink install" are my nemeses.
19:12:13< sugoi> thanx
19:12:26< drm> there is a way to mount the volume with something more complicated
19:12:33< drm> akh: why?
19:12:52< akh> drm:  Same reason -- on Linux, I should have said.
19:13:02< akh> sugoi: There's also hdiutil
19:13:08< drm> akh: ah, gotcha
19:13:15< sugoi> coo
19:13:17< drm> akh: shall we port fink to linux? :)
19:13:33< akh> I'd be OK with that--I'd have less cruft in /usr/local.
19:14:00< drm> man, we could start the "what the foo is /sw" wars all over again!
19:14:10< akh> hehe
19:14:13< atheken> what DOES sw mean?
19:14:16< drm> software
19:14:23< drm> i guess
19:14:31< drm> its lame, but hey
19:14:40< atheken> i thought "swEET"
19:14:47< drm> sure, that works too
19:14:51< atheken> or "swEATER"
19:14:59< drm> swat team
19:15:45 * drm summons RangerRick from the depths of warcraft or whatever
19:16:14< drm> last chance :)
19:17:11< drm> ok, i will try again later
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19:18:04< sugoi> drm: ok, running the XcodeTools.mdmg i had no option to install the x11sdk, BUT, in a sub dir there is indeed a x11sdk.pkg, i plan on running that
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19:36:42< akh> silly wired vs. wireless
19:37:24< atheken> airport.
19:38:34< akh> yah
19:42:32< dmacks> Does anyone have a 'grepdylib' that searches for a given symbol in a given list of .dylibs?
19:43:09< brendan> nm *.lib|grep :)
19:43:15< dmacks> Got *something* that is giving an indirectly-referenced-dylib error, need to figure out which lib has a broken .la
19:43:31< brendan> s/lib/dylib
19:43:55< dmacks> nm takes exactly one filename at a time
19:44:22< brendan> for i in *.dylib; if nm $i | grep foo; then echo $i; fi; done;
19:44:23< brendan> :)
19:44:55< brendan> s/if/do if/
19:45:07< dmacks> Ya that'll work:)
19:45:27 * dmacks spoiled by lesspipe's magic I guess
19:47:36< dmacks> 'less *.dylib | cat | less' works, but I don' wanna get yelled at by Useless Use Of Cat purists.
19:48:12< brendan> huh? what happens if you pull out the cat?
19:48:53 * brendan doesn't use lesspipe because it breaks 'v'
19:49:38< dmacks> In some rare cases the initial less didn't work properly. Never figured out the exact trigger for it.
19:50:46< brendan> for your bashrc: grepdylib () { symbol="$1"; shift; for i in "$@"; do if nm $i | grep $symbol; then echo $i; fi; done }
19:51:03< dmacks> Ooh, pretty! Thx
19:52:06< sugoi> is there a method to switch to su perminantly on a given console on macs?
19:52:29< brendan> su bash? :)
19:52:35< dmacks> sugoi: 'sudo -s'?
19:53:41< brendan> yeah wait a minute, su is just sudo -s. I just never use su.
19:54:34< sugoi> ok cool
19:54:35< sugoi> thanx
19:55:25< sugoi> and one last question...for now. when i ssh in, tcsh is used (which i can't stand =P), and i always use /bin/bash, is there some ssh conf file i can modify to request bash always be used?
19:56:03< brendan> you can probably just put 'exec bash' in your tcshrc
19:56:15< akh> You can set that with the Netinfo Manager.
19:56:26< dmacks> Use 'chsh' to change your default shell for that user?
19:56:32< akh> Ah
19:56:43< sugoi> brendan: i've used that, but i dont like having to exit twice 
19:56:53< dmacks> 'exec' wouldn't require a second exit.
19:56:58< brendan> with exec  you only exit once (and I was assuming you didn't have permission to change your shell)
19:57:10< sugoi> brendan: this is my machine
19:57:15< sugoi> i can do what i want
19:57:17< brendan> then change your shell :)
19:57:56< lisppaste> dmacks pasted "libtool WTF?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11820
19:58:16< sugoi> ok, i wasnt familiar with exec -- chsh, a command after i've ssh'd in?
19:58:43< brendan> just chsh once. (although I personally can't remember whether it works right on OS X)
19:58:52< brendan> NetInfo definitely does
19:59:06< sugoi> ill try netinfo first, system prefs i assume
19:59:11< brendan> hmm, I ran into that libresolv thing once before...
19:59:25< brendan> /Applications/Utilities
19:59:30 * dmacks never understood why netinfo is not part of prefs.
19:59:48< brendan> too hard to use
19:59:57< brendan> and too easy to break things with it
20:00:02< dmacks> Yeah.
20:00:17< sugoi> =P
20:00:20< sugoi> hide the good stuff
20:00:21< dmacks> ...in which case maybe User prefs should expose the more useful bits? (like default shell)
20:00:28< brendan> amen
20:00:39< brendan> except mac users aren't supposed to use Terminal :)
20:00:50< dmacks> (chsh links against DirectoryService.framework, so presumably it works correctly)
20:00:53< sugoi> ugh
20:01:54< dmacks> brendan: Yeah, I can pass an explicit -lresolv and it links cleanly. /me hates libtool. More than before.
20:02:24< dmacks> pogma: Any clue what's happening here?
20:02:26< brendan> it sucks.  but it's the only choice.
20:02:49< dmacks> pkgconfig!
20:03:01< brendan> ??
20:03:10< pogma> huh?
20:03:12< brendan> pkgconfig doesn't know how to make shared libraries
20:03:43< dmacks> Use libtool's "how to compile" parts but pkgconfig's flag-handling.
20:03:53< dmacks> pogma: http://paste.lisp.org/display/11820
20:04:03< pogma> dmacks: what version of gnu libtool?
20:04:10< brendan> "how to compile" _is_ flag handling :)
20:04:24< dmacks> Naw, I mean instead of .la files.
20:04:36< brendan> oh
20:04:52< dmacks> pogma: 'VERSION=1.5.2'. Yikes!
20:04:58< sugoi> ha!
20:05:01< sugoi> it worked
20:05:04< sugoi> thanx guys
20:05:06< dmacks> You're welcome!
20:05:51< pogma> dmacks: just add -lresolv ?
20:06:08< dmacks> pogma: Yeah. Seemed silly that I had to.
20:06:38< pogma> :)
20:06:45< atheken> wow, I didn't know that Konfabulator got purchased by Yahoo!
20:06:50< atheken> interesting.
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20:21:25< drm> ohayoo, asari-san
20:21:34< asari> hi, drm
20:22:27< drm> asari: pogma added the todai mirror to the list of mirrors in cvs, but it is not yet available to users...is it ready? should i release a new version of the fink-mirrors package which contains it?
20:22:40< asari> it's ready.
20:22:55< drm> ok, i'll do that
20:23:05< asari> thanks!
20:23:42< dmacks> pogma: I copied over ltmain.sh from libtool 1.5.18, but the same thing is happening:(
20:24:11< dmacks> Do I need to rebuild configure or something like that?
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20:33:35< atheken> ok, one issue with the MonoDevelop issue...
20:34:53< atheken> backing up the /usr/lib one and symlinking to the other solves this problem
20:35:36< atheken> (backup /usr/lib/libcrypto0.9.7.dylib, symlink the /sw/lib/libcrypto0.9.7.dylib)
20:37:01< drm> yikes
20:37:15< drm> that could lead to trouble later on
20:37:29< atheken> those two dylibs don't have the same md5sum
20:37:35< drm> right
20:37:40< atheken> AND they should.
20:37:44< drm> no
20:37:48< atheken> no?
20:37:52< drm> run "otool -L" on them
20:37:59< drm> probably they have different compatibility versions
20:38:35< drm> also, md5sum of executables and libraries on OS X can change, when prebinding is redone "ie, and installer or software update saying "optimizing")
20:39:51< atheken> I see.
20:40:11< dmacks> drm: IIRC, this is some problem with syptoms similar to not having DYLD_FALLBACK_WHATEVER set correctly.
20:40:35< atheken> I would expect an md5 to have the same sum for binaries that should be equivalent.
20:40:36< drm> well, i missed the beginning of the conversation, so i don't know what we are talking about :)
20:40:44< drm> atheken: not on OS X
20:40:47< dmacks> atheken: That's not true on OS X.
20:40:48< atheken> dmacks: looked at the faq, doesn't fix anything.
20:40:57< atheken> but true elsewhere?
20:41:04< akh> dmacks:  But there are instances where even with that set the same error message show up.
20:41:06< drm> true on linux
20:41:54< atheken> otool produces different results for the two dylibs.
20:41:57< akh> dmacks;  e.g. I had to replace gnome-vfs2-ssl with gnome-vfs2 because the former seemed to produce that error.
20:42:03< atheken> the /sw/lib version has an additional line for compat.
20:42:16< dmacks> akh (regarding DYLD_* magic): Yup, and this must be one of them:( Perhaps it's getting unset or reset to something else somewhere along the line. But dunno where.
20:42:25< akh> yah
20:42:37< drm> atheken: right, so its a problem if you symlink
20:42:55< atheken> yeah, ok.
20:43:21< atheken> will change back (did get rid of DYLD issue, created other issues)
20:45:48< atheken> akh: are you suggesting I change my gnome-vfs version?
20:46:25< akh> Not unless monodevelop uses gnome-vfs for something.
20:46:55< atheken> it's a dep.
20:47:03< atheken> somewhere on the long list of deps.
20:47:06< akh> hmmm--it's worth a try then.
20:47:51< atheken> yup.
20:49:44< asari> portaudio and portaudio-shlibs package contains orphan symlinks. I should mail to the maintainer..
20:50:35< asari> how can I find the packages which depend on portaudio?
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20:52:18< drm> asari: i use the somewhat crude "grep portaudio /sw/fink/dists/unstable/main/finkinfo/*/*.info"
20:52:25< atheken> how does one clean out debs that have been built from unstable?
20:52:27< asari> okay
20:53:02< drm> RangerRick?
20:53:15< dmacks> atheken: *All* of them? Do you have unstable enabled in your fink.conf?
20:53:40< asari> drm: no package found :)
20:53:41< pogma> dmacks: sorry, wasn't paying attention. If 1.5 does not work 1/5/20 won't work either
20:53:50< atheken> I do have unstable enabled
20:53:56< pogma> 1.5.20 even
20:54:02< atheken> pogma: I just want it to recompile the unstable stuff
20:54:24< pogma> atheken: I wasn't talking to you, don't know what you want :)
20:54:44< dmacks> pogma: np. Do I need to 'autoreconf' or something like that after installing a new ltmain.sh? Or can I 'libtoolize'?
20:54:53< atheken> pogma, sorry late here, meant that for dmacks.
20:55:16< dmacks> atheken: And you want to nuke all unstable .deb?
20:55:36< atheken> pretty much.
20:55:57< pogma> dmacks: Do you need a new libtool ? You need to rerun aclocal, autoconf etc (yes autoreconf is easier)
20:56:14< dmacks> 'find /sw/fink/dists/unstable -name \*.deb' to see them all, then if you want to nuke them add -delete to the end of that command.
20:56:56< dmacks> pogma: /me is just trying to Make It Work, and figured "1.5.2 is crusty, let's upgrade"
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20:57:35< pogma> nothing in that area changed from 1.5.2 to 1.5.20, so you'll still need to add -lresolv
20:57:36< atheken> dmacks: references aren't maintained in some "magic" place?
20:57:48< pogma> darn, didn't say "hi" to drm
20:57:55< dmacks> pogma: Okay. /me puts elegance back in storage.
20:58:27< dmacks> atheken: There are symlinks in /sw/fink/debs, but when you delete the "actual" files they simply become dangling (and ignored by fink)
20:58:44< atheken> ok
20:58:50< atheken> any "cleaner" way?
20:59:11< atheken> uninstall the packages and then rm them?
20:59:19< akh> Yup.
20:59:26< dmacks> ?
20:59:40< dmacks> fink 0.25 will have much-improved 'fink cleanup' functionality.
20:59:43< akh> You can clobber all of /sw/fink/dists/unstable if you really must.
20:59:57< dmacks> akh: that still leaves the symlinks:)
21:00:11< akh> Oh, yeah.
21:00:33< dmacks> If you do binary downloading, 'fink scanpackages' will make sure apt-get's database is in sync.
21:03:27< atheken> dmacks: *unstable*
21:04:06< atheken> anyway guys, thanks for the help, I will let you know how things turn out.
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21:05:20< dmacks> pogma: So is this a known and/or understood libtool bug?
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21:15:45< dmacks> Does Tiger have a OCRNL symbol?
21:17:47< pogma> dmacks: it is a bug? Prove it! :-p
21:18:37< pogma> dmacks: it is defined in /usr/include/sys/termios.h
21:24:45< dmacks> "It is libtool; QED"
21:25:42< dmacks> More seriously, -lresolv is in depends_libs of a .la, that .dylib is passed to libtool, but -lresolv isn't passed to gcc.
21:26:13< dmacks> So gcc crashes because -lresolv is needed (indirect symbol ref)
21:27:01< dmacks> (the symbol is flagged "U" by nm in that .dylib and T in libresolv)
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21:49:25< dmacks> Wonder if the /. item about multilingual CMS will have anything better than our current system.
21:57:39< asari> this one?: http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/19/2319256&tid=185&tid=4
21:59:26< dmacks> Yup
22:00:05< asari> phpLang is small and good
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--- Log closed Tue Sep 20 00:00:05 2005

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