--- Log opened Thu Sep 08 00:00:03 2005 --- Day changed Thu Sep 08 2005 00:00:03-!- beniamino [n=ben@adsl-64-164-10-189.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #fink 00:04:16-!- kbroderick [n=kbroderi@rich-dsl6-236.greenmountainaccess.net] has quit [] 00:24:05 * pogma googles dmalloc and finds a phone # 00:24:15< pogma> http://www.uptime.at/uptime?cid=4584 00:26:43< sn9> there are 3 ppl on that page 00:28:39< pogma> but only one of them is dmalloc :) 00:32:52-!- grub_booter [n=charlie@213.118.2.191] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:39:07-!- ringerc [n=craig@dsl-202-72-144-62.wa.westnet.com.au] has joined #fink 00:48:08-!- eno-away [n=eno-away@adsl-64-170-120-98.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:58:03-!- shres [n=sshreyas@202.144.95.244] has joined #fink 01:05:18-!- mbroeken [n=broeken@hst32165.phys.uu.nl] has joined #fink 01:07:44-!- mbroeken [n=broeken@hst32165.phys.uu.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 01:23:09-!- sid77__ [n=sid77@host-84-222-61-124.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has quit ["http://slackintosh.workaround.ch/"] 01:29:03-!- mbroeken [n=broeken@hst32165.phys.uu.nl] has joined #fink 01:30:08-!- sid77 [n=sid77@host-84-222-61-124.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #fink 01:30:12-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 01:30:21-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #fink 01:37:25< htodd> great 01:37:35< htodd> quicktime/itunes update broke my finder 01:37:55< sn9> really? in what way? 01:38:06< htodd> It keeps restarting 01:38:11< sn9> ugh 01:38:19< htodd> every minute or so 01:38:39< sn9> glad I chose to update iTunes without updating QuickTime 01:39:32< htodd> lessee, what if I fix permissions.... 01:39:44-!- vasi [n=vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Client exiting"] 01:39:46< sn9> maybe you have a 3rd-part QT component that's not quite compatible? like DivX? 01:39:59< htodd> why would it keep restarting my finder? 01:40:08< htodd> maybe it's time to visit macfixit 02:21:49-!- chris01 [n=chris01@212.126.165.246] has joined #fink 02:38:22-!- cianhughes [n=cian@cian.ws] has quit [Client Quit] 02:40:52-!- eno-away [n=eno-away@adsl-64-170-121-118.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #fink 02:51:21-!- beniamino [n=ben@adsl-64-164-10-189.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:06:51-!- JesseW [n=chatzill@pdpc/supporter/student/JesseW] has joined #fink 04:16:11-!- nkuttler [n=nkuttler@mauritius.asta.uni-saarland.de] has joined #fink 05:01:02-!- hennker [i=flullup@dsl-213-023-248-252.arcor-ip.net] has joined #fink 05:30:15-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 05:30:23-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #fink 05:34:45-!- mcp [n=hightowe@83.136.81.245] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 05:34:52-!- _mcp [n=hightowe@wolk-project.de] has joined #fink 05:35:06-!- _mcp is now known as mcp 05:37:21-!- shres is now known as shres_meeting 05:39:31-!- sid77 [n=sid77@host-84-222-61-124.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has quit ["http://slackintosh.workaround.ch/"] 05:39:49-!- alejo [n=tanks@84-72-231-240.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #fink 05:41:59-!- shreyas [n=sshreyas@202.144.95.243] has joined #fink 05:55:40-!- shreyas is now known as shres 05:56:28-!- nkuttler [n=nkuttler@mauritius.asta.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:56:29-!- shres_meeting [n=sshreyas@202.144.95.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:05:08-!- shres [n=sshreyas@202.144.95.243] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:07:30-!- JesseW [n=chatzill@pdpc/supporter/student/JesseW] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:09:47-!- nkuttler [n=nkuttler@dsl-084-058-196-197.arcor-ip.net] has joined #fink 06:22:14-!- shres [n=sshreyas@202.144.95.243] has joined #fink 06:46:03-!- joab [n=joab@p28-6.kthopen.kth.se] has joined #fink 06:49:12-!- shres [n=sshreyas@202.144.95.243] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:01:59-!- joab [n=joab@p28-6.kthopen.kth.se] has quit [] 07:37:51-!- nkuttler_ [n=nkuttler@dsl-084-058-196-197.arcor-ip.net] has joined #fink 07:39:14-!- kbroderick [n=kbroderi@rich-dsl6-236.greenmountainaccess.net] has joined #fink 07:45:46-!- kbroderick [n=kbroderi@rich-dsl6-236.greenmountainaccess.net] has quit [] 07:46:25-!- kbroderick [n=kbroderi@rich-dsl6-236.greenmountainaccess.net] has joined #fink 07:47:05-!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink 07:47:57-!- nkuttler [n=nkuttler@dsl-084-058-196-197.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:53:49-!- geewz [n=gregreed@ppp122-142.static.internode.on.net] has joined #fink 07:59:11-!- sid77 [n=sid77@host-84-222-61-124.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #fink 07:59:43-!- chris01 [n=chris01@212.126.165.246] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:01:19-!- geewz [n=gregreed@ppp122-142.static.internode.on.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:23:16-!- das_ [i=das@sparky.doit.wisc.edu] has joined #fink 08:26:08-!- kbroderick [n=kbroderi@rich-dsl6-236.greenmountainaccess.net] has quit [] 08:33:51-!- mbroeken [n=broeken@hst32165.phys.uu.nl] has quit [] 08:35:12-!- RangerAway is now known as RangerRick 08:41:02< cirdan> hey rangerrick 08:41:11< cirdan> mm, randal seems annoyed ;-) 08:42:46< pogma> he often does 08:43:01< cirdan> hehe 08:44:36< RangerRick> funny thing is, he's very amiable in person 08:44:43< RangerRick> but he always seems to come off as an ass on the list 08:46:15< cirdan> :-) 08:46:57-!- kbroderick [n=kbroderi@rich-dsl6-236.greenmountainaccess.net] has joined #fink 08:48:45< cirdan> not so much of an ass, just very direct :-) 08:48:57< cirdan> which many people would take offence to 08:53:34-!- kbroderick [n=kbroderi@rich-dsl6-236.greenmountainaccess.net] has quit [] 08:54:06-!- nkuttler [n=nkuttler@dsl-084-058-196-197.arcor-ip.net] has joined #fink 08:55:18-!- kane-xs_ [n=kane@fia236-131-100.dsl.mxposure.nl] has quit [] 08:57:10-!- zizban [n=Chris@pool-141-154-151-219.wma.east.verizon.net] has joined #fink 09:07:32< akh> Yeah--I had to self-censor my replies. 09:10:59-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink 09:12:11< zizban> for us? you shouldn't have 09:12:41-!- nkuttler_ [n=nkuttler@dsl-084-058-196-197.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:13:54< dmacks> Okay, I won't. 09:14:56-!- nkuttler [n=nkuttler@dsl-084-058-196-197.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["leaving"] 09:15:10< pogma> dmacks: read your mail 09:15:41< pogma> Hi, by the way :) 09:15:59< dmacks> reading...reading...reading... 09:16:16< dmacks> Wow...strange things are afoot. 09:16:26< cirdan> ? 09:16:40< akh> Did the dog not bark in the middle of the night? 09:16:51< akh> (obscure Sherlock Holmes reference) 09:17:10< pogma> I think dmalloc may be gone for a while 09:17:27< zizban> kidnapped? 09:17:30< zizban> gulag? 09:17:31< dmacks> "Oh you want Steve the spy! Try apt 1G." 09:17:48< zizban> heh 09:17:57-!- beniamino [n=ben@adsl-64-164-10-189.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #fink 09:18:33< akh> We thought my uncle Steve was a spy for a while. 09:18:43< akh> (seriously) 09:20:05< dmacks> pogma: Well, we've got until 14-oct to get an upgrade plan in place...that's when finkmirrors.net registration expires. 09:20:28< pogma> crap, thats sooner than I thought 09:20:40< akh> ick 09:21:30< dmacks> Hmm...his DNS contact info is in germany not austria. 09:21:39< pogma> you know what, I forgot to CC RangerRick on that mail 09:22:02< dmacks> Cool...we'll cook up a plan then just tell RR to implement it for us. 09:22:08< cirdan> i have an address somewhere for him... 09:22:19< cirdan> maybe work, maybe home, dunno 09:22:46< cirdan> also, since it is registered as fink as the company, maybe we can get the domain transferred to us 09:22:47-!- Fang [n=Fang@AToulon-151-1-58-136.w86-193.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #fink 09:23:24< pogma> there's a plan, /me nominates cirdan to deal 09:23:39-!- Fang [n=Fang@AToulon-151-1-58-136.w86-193.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 09:23:50< cirdan> heh 09:24:04-!- Fang [n=Fang@AToulon-151-1-58-136.w86-193.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #fink 09:24:06< dmacks> So you have the official company papers cirdan? 09:24:36< cirdan> i do 09:25:08< dmacks> Anyone know how assaholic dotster is? 09:26:14 * pogma failed to parse that question 09:26:36< cirdan> umm 09:26:36< cirdan> not sure 09:26:44< akh> dmacks: (I did parse the question) yes. 09:27:27 * cirdan misses old internic 09:28:15< dmacks> pogma: dotster is the finkmirrors.net registrar. /me made up a word to describe the level of tendency to be an ass. 09:28:54< pogma> Okay 09:29:15< pogma> We have email addresses for the mirror providers? 09:30:06-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 09:30:14-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #fink 09:31:09< dmacks> finkmirrors.net/sponsors.html has some info 09:31:13< htodd> anyone know how to fix Finder crashes? 09:31:36< htodd> or good at reading apple crash logs? 09:31:40-!- cls [i=cls@hlfxns01bbf-142068210221.ns.aliant.net] has joined #fink 09:32:15< akh> htodd: Not I. I just send all of the logs to Apple and let them deal with it. 09:32:15< pogma> fink/mirror/ChangeLog 09:32:36< pogma> looks like it has email addresses of mirror poviders 09:32:46 * pogma kisses absent dmalloc 09:32:54< htodd> if I leave my finder open, it crashes every 30 seconds or every minute 09:32:55< dmacks> heh 09:32:58< cirdan> heh 09:33:04< dmacks> htodd: Reinstall it? 09:33:11< akh> htodd: ouch. 09:33:13< cirdan> htodd: rm -rf ~? 09:33:19< htodd> reinstall the finder? 09:33:36< cirdan> htodd: make a new account and see if it dows it t still 09:33:51< dmacks> Try nuking your pref file. 09:33:59< dmacks> nm...cirdan's solution is much cleaner. 09:34:14< htodd> I didn't think about that. I'll try that 09:34:31< cirdan> often there is a bad cache or pref domewhere 09:34:34< cirdan> but not always 09:34:36< cirdan> ;-) 09:38:09< htodd> well, so far so good for the other account 09:38:13< htodd> now to nuke some prefs 09:39:11< cirdan> htodd: mv rather than rm :-) 09:39:20< htodd> is it the plist in preferences usually? 09:39:21< dmacks> Gotta love authors with a sense of humor "The problem is that some of the network code is a heap of shit...and needs to be rewritten." 09:39:22< htodd> cirdan: good call 09:39:31< cirdan> i'd move all out of the Library dir and move one dir back at a time 09:39:44< cirdan> start w/caches and prefs :-0) 09:42:39< cirdan> htodd: also use TinkerTool to add a quit meny to the finder... 09:42:47< cirdan> and maybe change the scroll bars too 09:42:49< cirdan> ;-) 09:44:20< htodd> I have a quit, fortunately 09:44:21< RangerRick> so we have a megahal bot in our channel for a group of friends, who was trained on rap lyrics 09:44:24< RangerRick> 10:29 <@TriGone> one of my co-workers got an email from Motricity today for a Java job 09:44:28< RangerRick> 10:29 < Hank> TriGone: A job for the flavour of vaginal odor. Their noses are trained to be java! 09:44:31< RangerRick> haha 09:44:35< dmacks> ha! 09:44:59< htodd> otherwise this thing would be so annoying as to be unusable 09:45:11< cirdan> hahaha 09:45:26< RangerRick> 10:30 <@Yellek> Hank: ewwww 09:45:28< RangerRick> 10:30 < Hank> Yellek: Triluna is the only reliable way to the bathroom - ewwww. 09:45:30< RangerRick> hahahaha 09:45:32< RangerRick> awesome 09:46:05< htodd> btw, I don't get it 09:48:30< RangerRick> htodd: it's an AI bot that learns from other people's speech 09:48:43< htodd> ok 09:48:54< RangerRick> it doesn't intrinsically know any language, it just figures out patterns based on what it sees, if you spoke spanish to it, it would speak spanish 09:49:14< cirdan> pretty cool, really 09:49:28< RangerRick> it can be surprisingly lucid at times 09:49:31< htodd> that makes more sense. I thought it was supposed to mean something. 09:49:43< RangerRick> feanor brings in a megahal bot into #fink sometimes 09:50:46< cirdan> yeah, but he only speaks when spoken to 09:51:26< RangerRick> we configured hank to speak randomly in response to general channel chit-chat for a couple of hours a day 09:51:26< zizban> the way it should be with bots 09:51:34< pogma> and children 09:51:40< zizban> yup 09:51:42< pogma> :) 09:51:45< zizban> heh' 09:51:52< dmacks> In a programming class, I wrote one that interacted with sheet music. Feed it some scores, and then we could get "$somegroup Replugged" 09:51:57< RangerRick> I didn't say "throw in in the closet", I said "speak randomly" 09:52:08< dmacks> haha 09:52:14< RangerRick> s/in in/it in/ 09:52:53< cirdan> :-) 09:52:55-!- jtyler_ [n=jtyler@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:53:14< zizban> heh 09:55:28-!- jtyler_ [n=jtyler@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has joined #fink 10:01:28< RangerRick> dmacks: was the gtkhtml3.8.15 necessary because they really upped the library lib? or because they switched to -revision without realizing the impact it would have on rpath platforms? 10:03:18< dmacks> They really upped the library major-lib. 10:03:21< RangerRick> hm, no, they're still using -version-info 10:03:29< RangerRick> yeah, was just looking through 10:03:29< RangerRick> weird 10:03:43< dmacks> Look at the drm/pogma/dmacks discussion from last nite. 10:04:52< RangerRick> we control finkproject.org don't we? re: the mirror thing 10:04:57< RangerRick> we could have mirrors.finkproject.org 10:05:02< cirdan> RangerRick: yes, i do 10:05:11< RangerRick> that's what I thought 10:05:34< cirdan> i think we shoiuld only use mirrors.* for stuff we totally control, like sancho etc. 10:05:47< cirdan> other hosts we should use the hostname that the mirror ppl give us 10:05:51< pogma> needs new fink releases to stable/unstable 10.3 and 10.4 10:06:29< pogma> maybe 10.2-gcc3.3 too as that probably has finkmirrors.net in it somewhere 10:06:43< akh> We may well hit 0.24.98 at this rate. 10:07:03< dmacks> I'll start cleaning my gun 10:07:09< cirdan> hehe 10:07:21< cirdan> *chick-chick* 10:07:27< cirdan> ready 10:07:31< zizban> at this rate we'll 1.0 this year! 10:07:37< akh> Can you get it across the border? ;-) 10:07:48< akh> (dmacks' gun) 10:08:09< cirdan> dmacks is only 100mi from me :-) 10:08:37< akh> I thought it was for vasi. 10:09:11< cirdan> oh 10:09:13< akh> Since he set the .99 minor digit on HEAD versions. 10:09:16< dmacks> Maybe I'll find one that can hit 'im from here... 10:09:20< cirdan> sure, guns are easy 10:09:36 * cirdan cleans his mortar tube... 10:10:31< dmacks> Customs Agent: "What's your business?" dmacks: "Just coming to retrieve my bullet that fell on your side of the border" 10:10:42< akh> heh 10:12:58< akh> Then again, we could just bump HEAD to %v.999, couldn't we? 10:13:15< akh> (using %v loosely) 10:14:31< dmacks> We need the new dpkg version-negation syntax. 10:14:51< RangerRick> ? 10:16:49< zizban> --Destroy 10:16:57< dmacks> I think it was vasi who observed that they're toying with somthing like "0.25.0~1" to mean "just less than 0.25.0" 10:17:36< cirdan> heh 10:17:45< dmacks> Remind me again why we hard-code mirror names in fink core? 10:17:46< cirdan> kinda cool, actuaclly 10:18:08< cirdan> gotta have it somewhere? 10:18:24< dmacks> (that way one can handle 1.1pre2 and such) 10:18:39< dmacks> Um...how about the whole fink-mirrors pkg. 10:20:20 * akh wonders if it's a vestigial organ from before the fink-mirrors package was introduced. 10:20:25< RangerRick> could be 10:22:24 * dmacks wonders if fink can't handle trying to process a mirror-type that has no mirrors. 10:22:42< akh> I"d imagine not. 10:23:13< zizban> vestigal organ....mmmmm 10:23:21-!- cianhughes [n=cian@cian.ws] has joined #fink 10:24:46 * zizban signs up for Fast Lane 10:25:24 * akh has two transponders. 10:25:37< zizban> I'm only getting one...too much $$$ 10:25:39< dmacks> *phew*...fink and fink-mirrors use hard-coded Source sites, not mirror:sf 10:25:48< zizban> besides I'm the one who has to travel for work :) 10:26:27< akh> zizban: Yah--I got two because occasionally my wife and I would have to drive into Boston separately. 10:26:39< zizban> oh ya that makes sense 10:26:51< akh> That's over now--she' 10:26:56< akh> s got a 1.9 mile commute. 10:27:25< akh> But we've already shelled out the money, so no reason not to keep the boxes. 10:29:09< akh> Especially for me, since I'm prone not to carry cash, and I'd have to drive all the way to the Natick Service Plaza (assuming eastbound) for an ATM if I got on the Pike without some. 10:33:09< zizban> ah 10:33:14< zizban> I see 10:39:53 * akh hopes that I won't need gnome-vfs2-ssl for anything. 10:40:45< dmacks> "Why?" /me asks innocently... 10:40:45-!- regeya [n=shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has joined #fink 10:41:02< akh> Because it borks the installation and removal of gst-plugins. 10:41:12< dmacks> ? 10:41:48< dmacks> Oh, /me thought you were concerned that if we remove --disable-howl, we're gonna hafta tweak the deps and rev-up every package that uses gnome-vfs2? 10:42:44< RangerRick> akh isn't on 10.4.3 seed yet :) 10:42:54< akh> Nope. The gnomevfs plugin of gst-plugins throws the FAQ 9.14 error message even with DYLD_FALLBACK_LIBRARY_PATH=: 10:43:03< akh> On 10.4.2 10:43:19< RangerRick> when 10.4.3 comes out, I'll up the deps 10:43:27< regeya> at 10.4.2 at this point, eh? 10:43:52< dmacks> Which pkg has gstreamer-0.8.pc? 10:44:21< RangerRick> should be gstreamer-dev 10:44:40< dmacks> 'k. (nothing broken...just didn't know which pkg to build to get it) 10:44:40< akh> yup 10:45:07 * akh thought _most_ of the .pc files were in the appropriate -dev. 10:45:25< dmacks> Didn't even know gstreamer vs gst-plugins 10:45:33< akh> ah 10:47:38-!- chris01 [n=chris01@212.126.165.246] has joined #fink 10:54:23-!- regeya [n=shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has left #fink ["Leaving"] 10:54:45< dmacks> Awesome...we're gonna have a package called "poppler". /me can't wait to report a bug in it as "the problem with popplers" 10:55:21< dmacks> Aw damn, and I just packed my Futurama DVDs:( 10:59:25< zizban> heh 11:01:01-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has quit ["leaving"] 11:01:36 * cirdan thinks we should be using popcorn rather than some script reported on the mailinglist 11:01:39< cirdan> to see what packages ppl use 11:03:01< RangerRick> yeah 11:03:05< RangerRick> did we ever finish making popcon work? 11:06:21< cirdan> i think clef had it working 11:06:30< cirdan> there have been updates to the server since them, i'm sure 11:10:28< akh> And it requires a working MTA. 11:10:45< cirdan> sancho has a working mta 11:10:57< akh> Yeah, but on the client side. 11:11:19< cirdan> i believe /usr/bin/sendmail is a working mta 11:11:36< cirdan> err, sbin 11:12:16< akh> Right--that wasn't the case prior to TIger--it required some file hacking to enable it. 11:12:25< cirdan> really? 11:12:30< cirdan> i thought it just worked 11:12:37< cirdan> well, have the user fix the file then :-) 11:12:56< cirdan> depend on postfix | fix-sendmail-config 11:13:00< cirdan> :-) 11:13:46 * akh should try harder to figure out why my Fink postfix doesn't allow incoming mail. 11:13:47 * RangerRick can test, he has a 10.3 install with no changes to the system other than system updates :) 11:14:25< akh> Yeah--mine's hacked to enable postfix. 11:15:10< RangerRick> hm, won't work on many systems, I'd bet 11:15:16< RangerRick> Sep 8 12:17:20 Benjamin-Reeds-Computer postfix/smtp[22624]: 99F9C13C0DF: to=, relay=mail1.befunk.com[66.139.77.96], delay=2, status=deferred (host mail1.befunk.com[66.139.77.96] said: 450 : Sender address rejected: Domain not found (in reply to RCPT TO command)) 11:15:22< RangerRick> depends on whether sancho requires FQDN 11:15:34< RangerRick> and valid domain name 11:16:12< cirdan> RangerRick: is befunk.com set to be a local domain? 11:16:31< RangerRick> no, it's a mail server in the real world, totally disconnected from this box 11:16:47< zizban> it will soon be zetafunk.com 11:16:51< zizban> :) 11:16:56< RangerRick> hah, no 11:17:00< RangerRick> I'm over BeOS 11:17:09 * RangerRick knows when to leave a sinking ship 11:17:09< zizban> heh 11:17:13< zizban> yup 11:17:18< cirdan> s/sinking/sunk/ 11:17:28< RangerRick> even if the ship was better than anything on the water, sometimes you just have to abandon it 11:17:32< akh> If only everybody here on #fink would give up lost causes like that. 11:17:37 * RangerRick looks pointedly at newmanbe's S.S. Gopher 11:17:37< RangerRick> ;) 11:17:38 * cirdan loves sunken ships...good for fishing :-) 11:17:48< cirdan> hehe 11:17:49< zizban> yepper 11:17:53< cirdan> gopher is cool though :-) 11:18:04< akh> Yeah, so was Betamax. 11:18:08< RangerRick> it is, and it is also a pointless technology 11:18:27< sn9> archie, anyone? 11:18:27-!- asari [n=chatzill@p4115-ipbf501marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #Fink 11:18:33< akh> hehe 11:19:05< asari> is drm here? ... no 11:19:15< cirdan> !seen drm 11:19:16< sn9> !seen drm 11:19:26< cirdan> !lart netsplits 11:20:25< zizban> heh 11:20:55< sn9> bot's not responding, but drm last /parted at 21:57 PDT 11:21:58< cirdan> Melian: help 11:23:06< asari> thanks, sn9 11:23:28< sn9> yw 11:24:19< cirdan> uh-oh 11:24:20< cirdan> Unable to handle kernel paging request at virtual address 369f961e 11:24:34< sn9> hmm. Melian doesn't have an idle time in /whois 11:25:07< cirdan> yes she does 11:25:12< cirdan> whois changed 11:25:20< cirdan> whois is now local 11:25:25< cirdan> you need to do a server whois 11:25:32< cirdan> new ircd 11:25:37< sn9> ah. whoops 11:25:41< cirdan> damn, my box is fux0rd 11:25:53< cirdan> kswapd is zombied 11:26:17 * zizban emails his spirtual advisor 11:26:34< zizban> "Once you Vatican you can never go back again" --Homer Simpson 11:29:34< sn9> ehhh, /quote whois gives the same result as /whois 11:30:14< cirdan> /whois melian melian 11:30:33< cirdan> for irssi, to make it default, alias whois to wii, not wi 11:33:07< sn9> i switched from irssi to xchat quite some time ago, but that still works. can't believe i forgot about /wii 11:33:36< cirdan> most of the time it's not neeeded 11:33:42< zizban> I use irssix at home 11:33:49< zizban> and xchat at work on windows gag 11:34:13< cirdan> zizban: putts + ssh -> home | irssi :-) 11:34:17< cirdan> err, putty 11:35:13< zizban> good idea 11:35:18< zizban> why do I forget about that? 11:35:24< sn9> last i checked, xirssi wasn't in fink, but i turned out to like xchat much more anyway 11:35:31< cirdan> my irssi is always on my linux box, i just ssh in :-) 11:35:35< zizban> its irssix 11:35:46< zizban> its cocoa 11:36:45< sn9> and i can ssh -X home /sw/bin/xchat 11:37:44< zizban> my linux boxes's HD died 11:38:15< cirdan> zizban: evms + raid :-) 11:38:25< zizban> heh 11:38:41< sn9> what brand was it? western digital sux 11:39:14< cirdan> hah 11:39:19< cirdan> WD has been the best for me 11:39:21< zizban> Its a Maxtor 11:39:24< cirdan> well, much better than maxtor 11:39:28< cirdan> and thier warrenty service rocks 11:39:35< cirdan> i hate maxtors now 11:39:38< cirdan> wish i never bought any 11:40:37< zizban> me too 11:41:29< sn9> it's been many years since i've had a dead seagate, but i hear they're going back to that 11:41:39< zizban> back to being dead? 11:41:50< sn9> back to dying 11:42:26< sn9> the seagates i have show no problems 11:43:07< zizban> ahhh 11:44:39< sn9> the toshiba runs very hot, though 11:45:50 * akh exercises my Western Digital drive (Sam's Club special) with an openoffice.org build. 11:46:11< cirdan> heh 11:46:28< zizban> Sam's club sells OO.o on a hard drive? 11:46:41< cirdan> hehe 11:46:42< akh> hah 11:49:01< akh> grrr...silly buildconficts+swappy code. fink removed openldap-ssl-dev for openoffice.org, then swapped in libgettext3-dev (probably for amarok, maybe for oo.org), and proceeded to reinstall openldap-ssl-dev. 11:49:40< zizban> what he said ^ 11:50:40< akh> i.e. fink reinstalls a buildconflicted package immediately after another package is installed. 11:51:18< akh> (the latter not infrequently being libgettext3-dev) 11:51:29< zizban> nice 11:52:01< akh> Wonder if that should be a 0.25-blocker ? 11:52:58< sid77> whoa OOo get into fink? 11:53:05< sn9> yup 11:53:40< sn9> x11 section 11:53:52< akh> RangerRick: I got the ever-popular "blacklisted compiler" error for amarok-1.3.1-21 11:54:17< zizban> oh ya I've seen that 11:54:33< zizban> I'd to build that new simplekde 11:55:01< sn9> gcc_select 11:55:51< akh> sn9: Yeah, I know--but it should at least let me (or rather, the uninitiated) know. 11:55:58< zizban> I tried that but too much work for something I am just curious about 11:56:16< sid77> so, when "ehi I want also neooffice in!" ? 11:57:40< zizban> no neofffice for you--it's Java 11:58:23< akh> And it's a self-contained .app anyway--not much need for package management. 11:58:44< zizban> and it...ummm.sucks as well 11:59:22< RangerRick> akh: dammit, guess I need to set CC and CXX :) 11:59:32< akh> zizban: I still prefer it to MS Office. 12:00:21< akh> RangerRick: Yeah--it even built a .deb after configure bombed. 12:00:28< zizban> akh: true 12:00:30< cirdan> heh 12:00:56< sn9> a .deb for MS Office? intriguing... 12:01:09< zizban> ya it's 1.4 gigs 12:01:22< zizban> ms-office-11-suck.deb 12:02:06< cirdan> no.. 12:02:12< cirdan> i think suck is the version, not the revision 12:02:15< cirdan> :-) 12:03:21< zizban> heh 12:03:44< akh> No--it should be in the package name. 12:04:02< cirdan> but it's more than the name :-) 12:08:18< akh> Yeah. :-) 12:09:14 * akh wishes MIT would mandate open doc formats (and PDF) like the state government. 12:09:42< sid77> akh, I know neooffice would never (or at least difficulty) come in, I was just joking 12:10:02< akh> sid77: I assumed so. ;-) 12:10:45< sid77> btw: iirc you or someone else already did a joke aboute ooo and neooff 12:10:58< zizban> I wonder it'll take MS to throw $$$ at the legislature to change the state's policy 12:11:13< akh> sid77: Yeah, very likely. 12:11:38< cirdan> i really hope they dont change 12:12:05< akh> zizban: One would hope they'd use the money in the general coffers rather than lining their pockets, but... 12:12:06< cirdan> would love to see someone finally tell ms to do to itself what it's been doing to everyone else for years 12:12:27< zizban> me too 12:12:40< sn9> one must be optimistic -- maybe the state's policy can spread elsewhere 12:13:37< akh> That's possible--especially given the cost of licenses. 12:13:45< zizban> yepper...we need a big state to follow--like California 12:14:49< sn9> here in CA, it would most likely have to happen county-by-county 12:15:23< cirdan> heh 12:15:26< akh> It'd be ironic if WA did that. 12:15:32< cirdan> haha 12:15:56< cirdan> sn9: no, the stae sets a policy that ms licesnes are not to be renewed after 6 months or so 12:16:20< cirdan> and within 18 months all docs use new format 12:16:43< zizban> yep 12:17:06< sn9> right, but in this state, that likely wouldn't happen until a bunch of counties did it first 12:18:07-!- ircleuser [n=xynpagw@83.235.97.45] has joined #fink 12:18:10< cirdan> WARNING: surgeon general says MS is bad for your health 12:18:25< cirdan> this product contains code that is known to the state of calif. to cause cancer 12:18:30 * akh wants the standard to be latex, and all graphics to be EPS w/o preview. 12:18:32< cirdan> :-) 12:18:37< cirdan> hah 12:18:37< zizban> heh 12:18:45< zizban> Framemaker! 12:18:47< cirdan> akh: latex/dvi/something would really rock 12:18:55< zizban> I wish adode would make a os x version 12:18:58< zizban> bastards 12:19:16< cirdan> they are still pissed at apple over iMovie/Final cut 12:19:19< cirdan> :-) 12:19:22< sn9> much easier to accomplish that way than to try to gain converts among state legislators or referendum voters 12:19:34< zizban> heh 12:19:50< cirdan> sn9: but counties wont do it if it goes against state policy 12:20:07< cirdan> just cause a polict isn't written doesn't mean there is no policy :-) 12:20:10< sn9> cirdan: maybe in YOUR state... 12:20:24< ircleuser> Hello? Help please. Why is my fink-installer not accepting an install to my / directory. Claims it won't accept symlinks? Am running HFS+ Journalled Case-sensitive 12:20:54< zizban> it installs to /sw 12:21:05< akh> ircleuser: http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php?phpLang=en#non-admin-installer 12:21:09< sn9> HFS+ is not supposed to be case-sensitive. compatibility prob? 12:21:16< zizban> maybe 12:21:36< ircleuser> Yup. I know from osx 10.2.8 however, it claims that my / partition doesn't support symlinks... Suggestions please? 12:21:58< cirdan> install from source? 12:22:10< akh> Read the link and see if those suggestions are applicable? 12:22:14< cirdan> HFSX is case sensitive though... 12:23:21< sn9> ircleuser: what happens when you try to make a symlink manually? 12:23:26< ircleuser> cirdan: When installing 10.4 it suggests default filesystem as hfs+, journalled. non-default is hfs+, journalled, case-sensitive. I tried reinstall with defaults. 12:23:40< ircleuser> sn9: symlinks from a shell are fine. 12:24:23-!- sid77 is now known as sid77_ 12:24:34< cirdan> ircleuser: to be precicse, hfs+ is not case sensitive, HFSX is 12:24:40< cirdan> or can be, anyway 12:25:12< sn9> then fink must have a problem with HFSX 12:25:29< cirdan> we,, fink itself doesn't 12:25:31< cirdan> well 12:25:51< akh> The message may be a red herring, too. 12:26:05< ircleuser> default option when installing osx 10.4 on a clean machine is hfs+ journalled. Non-default is hfs+ journalled, case-sensitive (amongst others). I originally did hfs+ journalled case-sensitive (linux user by default), then re-formatted & reinstalled. 12:26:39< RangerRick> osx server maybe? I don't remember case-sensitive as an option on the install (or I'd have done it :) 12:26:46-!- chris01 [n=chris01@212.126.165.246] has quit ["bye"] 12:26:54< akh> 1) Are you installing as a user with admin privileges? 2) Have you tried repairing permissions? 12:26:56< cirdan> RangerRick: go to disk-util and you can preformat it that way 12:26:58< sn9> did you happen to notice what line in the script failed? 12:27:28< RangerRick> cirdan: I know that, but the way he's saying it, it's a pull-down option in the installer 12:28:27< cirdan> RangerRick: maybe new dvds allow it? 12:28:46< ircleuser> ok. One at a time: Rangerrick: osx 10.4 on the box (not server). akh: I have admin on my machine (no, I haven't tried repairing perms). cirdan 12:29:06< ircleuser> cirdan: used disk-util on bootdisk to format 12:29:30< ircleuser> sn9: Using graphical installer downloaded from fink site. 12:30:27< sn9> the graphical installer's gotta have an option to show logs or otherwise display what it's doing 12:30:27< cirdan> ircleuser: read the list that was suggested 12:30:30< cirdan> err, link 12:30:41< ircleuser> I'm using the osx 10.4 dvd on powerbook 1Ghz 1/2MB RAM 12:30:43< cirdan> sn9: it does 12:30:58< cirdan> ircleuser: hmm, might need more memory :-) 12:31:18< ircleuser> sorry: 1/2 Gb RAM 12:31:21< ircleuser> Sep 8 20:19:13 tet : / cannot be used as a target because: This volume does not support symlinks. 12:31:21< ircleuser> Sep 8 20:19:13 tet : It took 1.159720 seconds to process the volume "Tiger" 12:31:21< ircleuser> Sep 8 20:19:14 tet : It took 0.250141 seconds to process the volume "Arse" 12:31:32< zizban> Arse? 12:31:36< zizban> heh 12:31:52< akh> Could be bad permissions on / then. 12:32:07< ircleuser> sorry, naming convention. :) 12:32:14< zizban> its okay 12:32:30< ircleuser> sorry. on phone... 12:33:21< sn9> leave it to fink to try kicking the tiger's arse XD 12:33:41< zizban> heh 12:33:55< RangerRick> looks like this could be related: http://paste.lisp.org/display/8708 12:35:33< sn9> easy to verify -- just have ircleuser delete $basedir.tmp 12:36:14< sn9> OTOH, there could be a stray .DS_Store file 12:36:37< ircleuser> you recon I should kill all .DS_Store files? 12:37:09< sn9> not all everyehere. just in the "affected area" 12:37:34< ircleuser> what, from /? 12:38:11< sn9> /sw 12:38:32< sn9> and dump /sw.tmp, if any 12:38:57< ircleuser> \/sw doesn't exist 12:39:34< ircleuser> can't do backslash on this irc client 12:39:51< cirdan> /sure... 12:40:10< cirdan> / /foo 12:40:21< ircleuser> sorry, ^I^ can't do backslash on my client :( Just installed for question asking. 12:40:38< cirdan> odd, never saw a client that can't do / /foo 12:40:59 * RangerRick does /say if I want to do something that starts with / 12:40:59< ircleuser> using ircle (first client I saw) 12:41:03< cirdan> i'm pretty sure ircle couls 12:41:07< cirdan> could 12:41:13< cirdan> i used to do it, dont remember how though 12:41:18-!- Murr [n=neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink 12:41:18< sn9> i do //foo in xchat 12:41:18 * akh just resorts to putting a space in front. 12:41:26< cirdan> heh 12:42:16-!- Snaggle [n=nieder@128.252.206.171] has joined #fink 12:43:04< akh> But that's not important right now. I'd say ircleuser should try the "Repair permissions" suggestion from the FAQ, and if that fails then we're approaching the possibility of a bug in the Installer package. 12:43:30< ircleuser> will try... 12:43:51< akh> That, at least, is relatively easy to try. ;-) 12:44:16-!- Murrito [n=neeri@c-24-7-124-6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:44:56< ircleuser> ... 12:45:16-!- asari [n=chatzill@p4115-ipbf501marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.6/20050717]"] 12:45:54< Snaggle> I'm trying to migrate a package to using -unified, and noticed that if I follow the example given, I get lots of BuildDependsOnly errors... 12:46:10< sn9> hmm. i just looked at the InstallationCheck script in 0.8.0, and it doesn't issue that error at all. are you trying a cvs version of the installer? 12:46:17< cirdan> /ban *@* 12:46:44< RangerRick> Snaggle: hmm, that's a good point 12:46:48< Snaggle> I have foo-unified-shlibs builddepending on foo-unified, and foo-unified has BuildDepsOnly: true. This is the way it was when using just foo/foo-shlibs 12:46:53< RangerRick> right 12:47:23< Snaggle> but now, foo depends on foo-unified 12:47:24< RangerRick> yes, that would be a problem, which I don't have a quick answer to, Snaggle :) 12:48:00< akh> waive BDO for foo-unified until the next %r? 12:48:21< RangerRick> what next %r? that doesn't help 12:48:29< cirdan> ok, we really need a policy change 12:48:30< RangerRick> the ugprade packages still have to be there 12:48:32< Snaggle> would using Provides get around this? I haven't thought out all the upgrade paths yet 12:48:45< cirdan> no more .info name must match the parent package... 12:48:47< RangerRick> Snaggle: not unless nothing has ever had a versioned depend on your package 12:48:52< cirdan> and all devs need -dev 12:49:10< RangerRick> Snaggle: if something depends: yourpackage (>= 1-2) provides won't work 12:49:24< cirdan> my head spins when i try to guess if foo is a -dev or -bin package 12:49:31< ircleuser> ok. Repaired perms, time to continue... Doh! Failure 'cause I made a /sw dir as root... Remove, try again... SUCCESS!!! :)))) (Well, still installing, so cross fingers:) 12:49:40< RangerRick> cool 12:49:52< sn9> ircleuser: that'll do ya 12:50:01< Snaggle> oh well. My package has an explicit depends: otherpackage(=1-2) 12:50:22< akh> And no hitherto unknown bug in the Fink installer. 12:50:31< ircleuser> fails on appending to .bash_login, but's that 'cause I use a symlink to .bashrc :) Thanks people for the assistance! 12:51:08< cirdan> ircleuser: umm, don't symlink, they do differnt things 12:51:21< cirdan> just use source ~/.bashrc at the top of .bash_login 12:51:21< sn9> yeah, it's not smart 12:51:41< cirdan> that way stuff in .bash_login can overrule ~/.bashrc 12:51:43< Snaggle> how are version numbers dealt with when using provides? In another package I was testing, I noticed that if bar provides: doh, but I had two versions of bar.info, then doh was listed with the lesser version. Is this right? 12:51:51< cirdan> Snaggle: they aren't 12:52:20< ircleuser> The priority is .bash_login over .bashrc? 'sok. They are the same file, no? 12:52:23< cirdan> provides work anly with names, not versions 12:52:25< Snaggle> cirdan: so it just assigns the first one it finds for fink list? 12:52:32< cirdan> ircleuser: no, different 12:52:35< cirdan> man bach 12:52:40< akh> bash 12:52:41< cirdan> bash 12:52:47< cirdan> god, i can't type 12:53:13< RangerRick> man: http://www.wimp.com/orleans/ 12:53:21 * ircleuser now rushes to change .bashrc 'sploit and also install mcedit as the only shell editor worth mentioning ^flame, flame^ :))) 12:53:24< cirdan> basrc is for non-interactive shells, like when you run a cmdline app in an xterm window 12:53:35< cirdan> bah 12:53:38< cirdan> MPW > * 12:53:45< ircleuser> cirdan: Thanks 12:54:00< cirdan> bash_login is for login shells 12:54:21< cirdan> like if you did just `bash' on the commandline, you wouldn't get another login shell 12:54:26< cirdan> you'd need bash -l 12:54:40< cirdan> my login shells print out cool useful info :-) 12:54:52< akh> mine just says "FOO!" 12:55:19< cirdan> i have it give the last 5 email subjects, last few logins, uptime... 12:55:47-!- zizban [n=Chris@pool-141-154-151-219.wma.east.verizon.net] has quit ["e=mc2...galaxies in the void of space...I'm hungry!"] 12:56:07< ircleuser> So, you suggest bash_login as the main alias & env setting file, & bashrc as the 'set reduced perms file'? 12:56:18< cirdan> sure 12:56:25< cirdan> i even have a .bash_alias :-) 12:56:48< ircleuser> does bash look for a .bash_alias? 12:56:58 * ircleuser does man bash <> 12:57:03< cirdan> no, i source it in my .bash_login 12:57:59< ircleuser> /bash_alias returned nada. I don't like sourcing files - I think it's insecure (just my opinion though :) 12:58:30< cirdan> heh 12:58:45< cirdan> same security as anything else 12:58:49< cirdan> no more, no lesss 12:59:12< cirdan> if you can't trues the files in $HOME, something is wrong 12:59:25< cirdan> trust 12:59:51< ircleuser> symlinks only give you one file to look after, sourcing means you have to look after ^many^ files. 13:00:36< cirdan> unless you have a+w on your files, or ~, a symlink won't save you 13:00:41< ircleuser> you can source from /etc/profile if you're feeling brave (linux user). This gets overridden, then all users are vulnerable. (Again, just an opinion) 13:00:43-!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has quit [] 13:01:42< cirdan> anyway, if i can get to a term on your machine, i can prolly become root 13:01:47< cirdan> at least in 10.3 i can 13:01:58< cirdan> as long as i can exec a file 13:02:01< ircleuser> Any file with a u+s with group or world executable could potentially lead to a 'sploit, and no, you can't have a shell :) 13:02:43< cirdan> so sourcing is the least of your worries 13:02:44< sn9> under 10.2 i had my own /etc/profile, but with 10.3, i just took what it gave me 13:02:45< cirdan> :-) 13:03:44-!- geoffrey [n=geoffrey@host81-152-60-247.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #fink 13:04:05< ircleuser> I'm a co-mac/linux user & I try to copy the paranoia from both :) (btw. if anybody asks, Slackware is ^the^ best linux x86 distro around :-) 13:04:26 * ircleuser dons flameware outfit 13:04:31< ircleuser> brb\ 13:04:50< geoffrey> none of the KDE packages exist in my fink install :| 13:05:03< RangerRick> geoffrey: they're only in unstable 13:05:05< RangerRick> !unstable 13:05:13< geoffrey> ah 13:05:13< RangerRick> damn, Melian doens't remember anything? :P 13:05:18< geoffrey> since tiger? 13:05:28< sn9> RangerRick: Melian crashed 13:05:29< RangerRick> http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php?phpLang=en#unstable 13:05:29-!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink 13:05:31< cirdan> RangerRick: kswapd zombied... 13:05:37< cirdan> and melian's status is D 13:05:44< RangerRick> sn9: yeah, didn't realize the stuff disappeared too :) 13:05:49< RangerRick> geoffrey: yeah, it's not been in stable in tiger yet 13:05:52 * RangerRick is working on that 13:06:00< geoffrey> ok 13:08:40 * ircleuser is back without a slash/ 13:08:44< ircleuser> ;-) 13:08:49< akh> heh 13:08:52-!- Snaggle [n=nieder@128.252.206.171] has left #fink ["Leaving"] 13:09:25 * cirdan thinks ircleuser needs a name 13:09:41-!- ircleuser is now known as theBeast98765 13:09:44< theBeast98765> :) 13:10:45< theBeast98765> Strange, my namechange should stop ^all^ channel conversation... 13:11:21 * theBeast98765 muses: or maybe it's the fact that my friend has popped over to steal my broadband connection... 13:12:03< sn9> is that a zip code? 13:13:05 * cirdan looks at the sequence of numbers...then looks at sn9 13:13:23-!- theBeast98765 is now known as TB04531 13:13:31< sn9> hey, it's not my zip code 13:14:22 * akh is on Panther now and can't use the Zip Code Lookup Dashboard widget. ;-) 13:14:36< cirdan> heh 13:14:53< cirdan> akh: run panther in a chroot :-) 13:14:55< sn9> 98765 and 43210 13:15:21< RangerRick> 90210! 13:15:35-!- TB04531 [n=xynpagw@83.235.97.45] has left #fink [] 13:15:40-!- TB04531 [n=xynpagw@83.235.97.45] has joined #fink 13:15:47< TB04531> aha! 13:15:59< cirdan> weird 13:16:05< akh> cirdan: I just use a removable so that I have the same Panther environment regardless of which computer I use it with. 13:16:24< sn9> i never really understood the point of /cycle 13:16:33 * TB04531 is back. Now seeing his channel posts reflecting on his screen. 13:16:50< TB04531> ex ircle-user (or whatever) 13:17:01< TB04531> Once again guys, thanks for the assistance. 13:17:07< sn9> yw 13:17:49< cirdan> TB04531: /cycle cycles between the user's different personalities 13:17:57< cirdan> duh... 13:18:22< sn9> Usage: CYCLE, parts current channel and immediately rejoins 13:18:35-!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has left #fink [] 13:18:37-!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink 13:18:47-!- cirdan [n=chris@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has left #fink [] 13:18:49-!- cirdan [n=chris@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink 13:18:54< cirdan> whee... 13:18:55< TB04531> Just figured out, my friend is downloading large amounts of data on my connection. No bandwith left for me. Will leave to drink beer now :) 13:19:05< akh> That's a shame. ;-) 13:19:22< cirdan> it's like a self-inflicted netsplit 13:19:27< cirdan> :-) 13:19:36-!- sid77_ [n=sid77@host-84-222-61-124.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has quit ["http://slackintosh.workaround.ch/"] 13:19:37< akh> Only faster. 13:19:52 * TB04531 says /cycle doesn't work with ircle. 13:20:07< cirdan> same great annoyance, less time 13:20:39< akh> It's like a 5 second vs. 2 minute prostate exam. 13:21:03< akh> (if it's annoying, why prolong it?) 13:21:14< cirdan> hehe 13:21:28 * TB04531 has heard (unofficially) that prostrate prodding can be fun (unofficialy?) 13:21:51 * akh is still too young to have had to worry about that. 13:22:01 * cirdan reaches to take TB04531's voice away... 13:22:37< sn9> in my messed-up fonts, that looks like "foo young" 13:22:42< akh> Ugh--this "no laptop" thing is the pits. 13:22:50< akh> sn9: mmm...egg foo young 13:23:03 * TB04531 has remembered why he installed fink - mcedit - only the best & easiest linux text editor around :) 13:23:35 * akh hasn't tried it. 13:23:45-!- beniamino [n=ben@adsl-64-164-10-189.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:24:15< TB04531> Serious lack of escape commands, colon-based commands and general cryptic bullshit makes this a no-brainer :0 13:24:24< cirdan> vi > * 13:24:45< sn9> * includes vi 13:25:06< sn9> it can't be better than itself 13:25:16< TB04531> Dr. Crypic loves escape-command-colon type editors, however, I live in the real world :) 13:25:20< cirdan> sure, it just keeps getting better 13:25:34< cirdan> TB04531: it's so much faster though 13:25:48< TB04531> Sorry, couldn't resist :))) No offence and thanks once again for the assistance! 13:26:21 * TB04531 says mcedid - double escape gives you the quit-save option. 13:26:39< cirdan> ZZ :-p 13:27:09< sn9> gvim is the best thing since sliced bread 13:27:52< cirdan> takes too long to start 13:27:53 * TB04531 prefers unsliced, wholemeal, oatflake bread :) 13:28:37< sn9> doesn't take nearly as long as kate, kwrite, or nedit 13:29:29 * cirdan wants an x11.app interface to windowserver 13:29:33< cirdan> no more x11.app 13:30:07-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 13:30:13-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #fink 13:31:19< TB04531> Btw. Time to leave. Time to go out and eat panigiri pic & drink cheap panigiri wine (living in a spa town in greece has it's benifits :) 13:32:27< TB04531> Sorry, benefits (too much veissbeer or whatever) 13:33:23-!- shres [n=sshreyas@59.92.130.61] has joined #fink 13:33:42< sn9> hmm. just noticed that gtk doesn't seem to have a Greek input method 13:33:45-!- beniamino [n=ben@adsl-64-164-10-189.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #fink 13:34:49< TB04531> sn9: I have a greek food eating method. Going out now for Loutraki panigiri pig & beer. :))) 13:35:09-!- Albie [n=ambs@bl6-36-61.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #fink 13:35:42-!- Fang [n=Fang@AToulon-151-1-58-136.w86-193.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:35:49< TB04531> G'night and thanks ppl. Really appreciate all the help you've given me. 13:36:51-!- TB04531 [n=xynpagw@83.235.97.45] has left #fink [] 13:41:23< akh> That reminds me. I'm out of beer. 13:43:06< sn9> this font problem still greatly irks me. come to think of it, i seem to remember something similar shortly after i first installed fink, and the problem turned out to be an env var snafu. anybody know all the env vars involved in antialiasing? 13:44:34< cirdan> chown -R $USER ~.kde ~.qt 13:45:52< sn9> i already own my .qt, and i don't have a .kde 13:46:37-!- das_ [i=das@sparky.doit.wisc.edu] has quit [] 13:46:43< sn9> but i just rmdir'ed my .qt for good measure 13:47:02-!- das_ [i=das@sparky.doit.wisc.edu] has joined #fink 13:47:44-!- das_ [i=das@sparky.doit.wisc.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 13:48:02-!- das_ [i=das@sparky.doit.wisc.edu] has joined #fink 13:50:05< sn9> nobody knows, eh? 13:51:53< akh> guess not 13:52:28< RangerRick> sn9: not if it's not bad ownership on ~/.qt or ~/.qt/*rc 13:53:33< sn9> i think it's probably some kind of env var responsible for this visual travesty 13:54:38< sn9> i havent really installed any K apps through fink, but it's killer in the GTK ones like xchat and Pan 13:57:44< sn9> GDK_USE_XFT doesn't seem to have any effect 13:58:14-!- ferringb [n=bharring@gentoo/developer/ferringb] has joined #fink 13:58:26< sn9> the other possibility is that the freetype2-hinting package is simply broken in the 10.3 tree 14:02:12 * akh wonders if the ROKR can use one of its stored songs as a ringtone. 14:03:26-!- beniamino [n=ben@adsl-64-164-10-189.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:08:45-!- sid77 [n=sid77@host-84-222-61-124.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #fink 14:11:29< cirdan> heh 14:12:51< akh> Probably not--and no Bluetooth, either. 14:14:10< akh> Not nearly enough technology for me to want one. 14:16:40-!- Albie [n=ambs@bl6-36-61.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:17:33-!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has quit [] 14:19:05-!- Albie [n=ambs@bl6-36-61.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #fink 14:21:47-!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink 14:22:16< akh> grr--shouldn't have installed the Quicktime update on 10.3 14:22:33< akh> (/me guesses( 14:25:55< akh> Looks like it messed with my system frameworks. 14:26:54< sn9> did you already have 7.0.1? 14:27:11< akh> I'm not sure. 14:27:25< akh> probably. 14:27:35-!- Murr [n=neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:28:18 * akh was just trying to shut Software Update up. 14:29:27< sn9> the frameworks went all newfangled between 6.5.2 and 7.0 14:29:28 * akh suspects QuickTime because I had the same error a couple of days ago, and a clean reinstall of XCode fixed it. 14:30:17< akh> Though it's not a quicktime header. 14:30:55< akh> I'll try another clean XCode install. Dang I hate building .apps. 14:31:12-!- ambs_ [n=ambs@bl5-163-154.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #fink 14:31:42< akh> I may just commit the package and say "with the caveat that I couldn't test the Aqua part because of an insane system" 14:32:05< akh> (the non-aqua stuff works) 14:32:27-!- shres [n=sshreyas@59.92.130.61] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:37:15< akh> Similar errors in are archives were attributed to Installer.app :-( 14:37:19< akh> our 14:38:45-!- ferringb [n=bharring@gentoo/developer/ferringb] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:40:15< sn9> i ran into that when i tried to install Virex 7.5 -- that fails if the fink package "fileutils" is present 14:40:46< akh> I've seen that kind of thing, too. 14:41:05< akh> I wish we could repackage Xcode as a .deb. 14:41:44< sn9> Network Ass. left out the "/bin/" in their installer scripts 14:42:59< akh> Yup. And on 7.2 they used some fink-built libraries and installed them in /sw. 14:43:18< sn9> i remember that 14:43:50< akh> Apparently there's a clue gap. 14:44:19< cirdan> heh 14:44:30< cirdan> we can 14:44:35< cirdan> just can't distrib it 14:44:37< cirdan> :-) 14:45:12< sn9> speaking of pathnames, i think i might be on to what's screwing up my fonts 14:45:32< akh> cirdan: Good point. I just like the idea of having everything build-depend on an appropriate xcode splitoff. 14:46:08< sn9> libfreetype is in both /sw/lib and /usr/X11R6/lib 14:46:41< akh> sn9: That should nominally be OK, though. 14:47:03< sn9> how can i tell which is being used? 14:47:30-!- Albie [n=ambs@bl6-36-61.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:47:35-!- ambs_ is now known as Albie 14:48:11< akh> maybe otool -L , e.g. "otool -L xchat" for xchat. 14:48:53-!- ringerc [n=craig@dsl-202-72-144-62.wa.westnet.com.au] has quit ["zzzz"] 14:49:39< sn9> that says xchat is using /usr/X11R6/lib. what the hey? 14:50:06< akh> It may be deliberately set up to use that one. 14:50:24-!- geoffrey [n=geoffrey@host81-152-60-247.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 14:50:36< cirdan> akh: and it can 14:50:53< cirdan> just require the user to have the tools mounted 14:51:45< akh> cirdan: Yeah--but they'd have to know to do that. So were pushing the ignorance frontier back a bit, but not eliminating it. 14:52:19< akh> time to revert to Tiger and get back my missing iTunes songs. 14:53:18< sn9> doing 'fink rebuild pan' as an experiment... 14:53:42< akh> cirdan: I guess we could do that for X11 and XCode, both--just throw an error message that says to have the appropriate .pkg files under /Volumes or /Users 14:53:56< akh> (not unlike applex11tools) 14:56:34-!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has quit [] 15:02:25-!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink 15:03:20 * akh can't wait until my laptop is back so that I can just reboot _it_ to do crossplatform checks. 15:06:04< runelind> I'm tired of installing gettext and libgettext :) 15:06:19< runelind> I don't know what they do, I just know I have to install it every couple of days 15:08:16< akh> runelind: But do you have fink-0.24.9 or later? 15:08:24-!- ylon [n=ylon@24.53.140.59] has joined #fink 15:08:37< sn9> this is bizarre! checking GTK_LIBS... -L/sw/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgdk-x11-2.0 -lXrandr -lXinerama -lXext -lXft -lfreetype -lXrender -lfontconfig -lX11 -lXcursor -latk-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lm -lpangoxft-1.0 -lpangox-1.0 -lpango-1.0 -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -lglib-2.0 -lintl -liconv 15:09:16< sn9> -L/sw/lib is specified FIRST, and it still goes to /usr/X11R6/lib! 15:09:36< RangerRick> sn9: even libfreetype.dylib is there? 15:10:40< sn9> in /sw/lib, there's libfreetype.6.dylib, but that's what otool shows it using from /usr/X11R6/lib anyway 15:12:43< RangerRick> right, but if there's no libfreetype.dylib, it won't link against the one in /sw/lib 15:12:49< RangerRick> which would explain why you're getting x11's 15:12:59< RangerRick> which in fink is intentional 15:13:29< RangerRick> as of 10.3, we don't want to use fink's freetype, unless it's specifically asked for by packagers by using the freetype219 package (which has everyting in /sw/lib/freetype219) 15:13:49< runelind> Package manager version: 0.24.10 15:13:56< sn9> oy! 15:14:27< akh> runelind: Then what are you griping about? ;-) At least your builds don't croak from being unable to switch between the two. 15:14:41< runelind> I want selfupdate to find *cool* thinks :) 15:14:42< RangerRick> as time goes by, less and less things use gettext, more and more use gettext3 15:14:48< runelind> /s/thinks/things 15:14:51< RangerRick> it will get better :) 15:15:32< runelind> I would still really like to have some tool where I can alt-tab between apps in xdarwin 15:15:52< runelind> I guess cmd+~ works, but not very well 15:16:14< akh> Does it work in KDE? 15:16:18 * akh checks 15:16:35< runelind> in kde you have to use alt+tab 15:16:51< akh> Which is what you said. 15:17:20< sn9> what's the point of having freetype(non-219) packages if nothing is gonna use them? 15:17:41< akh> sn9: legacy, I'd guess. 15:18:02< akh> They'll probably go away once nothing depends on them anymore. 15:18:24< runelind> akh: but if you're running x apps rootless you can't switch between them easily 15:18:35< akh> Ah, yeah. 15:18:48< cirdan> yes u can 15:18:54< cirdan> dont use x11.app 15:19:03< runelind> I'm using darwinx 15:19:04< sn9> the thing is, fink provides both hinting and non-hinting versions, and X11.app doesn't 15:19:50< sn9> at least the hinting version should provide a libfreetype.dylib in that case 15:19:58< RangerRick> sn9: the old ones are for upgrades from 10.2 and stuff 15:20:41< RangerRick> sn9: the reason we don't is as of tiger, they use a reasonably modern freetype that even the freetype people recommend over the hinting engine, and there were so many problems with non-twolevel libraries causing conflicts between x11 and the fink one that it was just not worth trying to maintain our own 15:20:54< ylon> anyone know how to permanently set the ulimit -u limit to something such as 500? 15:21:00< RangerRick> now that all the freetypes are twolevel, people have moved a lot of stuff to using freetype219 when they need updates 15:21:27< RangerRick> since those conflicts don't happen anymore 15:21:55< RangerRick> ylon: vim /etc/sysctl.conf I believe 15:22:29< ylon> ok, I'd read that /etc/sysctl.conf wasn't behaving quite right in X.3 15:22:30< sn9> then this is correct for the 10.4 tree, but i don't see why that should be extended to the 10.3 tree 15:23:05< RangerRick> ylon: I think on 10.3 you make an /etc/rc.local_tuning or something like that 15:23:10< RangerRick> try digging through /etc/rc 15:23:33< RangerRick> something about sysctl on osx, you can only set them once, or you need to set them during rc, or something like that 15:23:53< RangerRick> been a while since I dug into it for postgresql 15:24:06< RangerRick> hm, no, sysctl.conf should work, looking at it 15:24:26< RangerRick> not sure though, it's messy 15:29:55< ylon> Interesting: http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=200311151254441 15:29:59< ylon> This appears to be what I'm needing 15:31:01< akh> *sigh* /me wishes that builds from the same %v but different %r could use ccache. 15:31:44< newmanbe> Hmm, there was a highlight. 15:31:54 * newmanbe goes to see what work he was assigned. ;) 15:32:31< newmanbe> !lart RangerRick 15:32:34< RangerRick> nah, just me making fun of gopher :) 15:32:39< newmanbe> !lilosmite RangerRick 15:32:44< RangerRick> :) 15:32:47< akh> newmanbe: No Melian for you! 15:32:50 * newmanbe pokes Melian. 15:33:00< akh> (or anybody else) 15:33:20< RangerRick> actually, I have nothing against gopher. But I also have nothing against betamax, nor do I use it. :) 15:34:02< newmanbe> You probably don't use VHS as much either. 15:34:21< RangerRick> nope 15:34:58< sn9> 8mm 15:36:00 * akh starts my quixotic quest to make state office workers in MA learn TeX. 15:36:44< newmanbe> Doesn't the Commonwealth require open source stuff? 15:36:55< akh> Yup. 15:37:03< akh> At least, open file standards. 15:37:08< newmanbe> So what do they use? 15:37:21< akh> I'm not sure when this goes into effect. 15:37:21< ylon> a better solution: http://ruminate.net/pdm/mt/os_x_tips/os_x_tiger_104_process_limits_solution.html 15:37:21< newmanbe> For word proccessing-like stuff. 15:37:48< akh> newmanbe: Right now, MS Word I'd imagine. 15:38:08< newmanbe> Umm, okay... 15:38:11< akh> Eventually, probably OpenOffice. 15:38:32< newmanbe> Don't forget the .org . ;) 15:38:39< akh> oops. 15:38:46< RangerRick> ylon: interesting 15:39:11< akh> Maybe StarOffice--/me doesn't know offhand if that uses the same file standards as OO.org. 15:40:19< akh> It probably did back when it was free, but now...? 15:41:01 * newmanbe demands plain text files using ASCII encoding. 15:41:27< akh> TeX it is. :-) 15:41:42< newmanbe> Yep. :) 15:42:01< newmanbe> Though it would be more useful for me if it LaTeX as I don't know TeX. 15:42:46 * akh meant *TeX 15:42:52< newmanbe> Ah. 15:43:20< akh> And you gotta love the compression you can get on those files. 15:43:39< newmanbe> Yeah, TeX has been around for years (decades?). Probably even more stable than Microsoft. :) 15:44:09< sn9> UTF-8 > ASCII 15:44:19< akh> Except for the weird Xorg backwards compatibility thing that hasn't been seen on any other package. 15:44:30< sn9> UTF-8 > everything 15:44:32< newmanbe> sn9: If you need that sort of thing. 15:44:52< sn9> need it or not, it's still superior 15:44:55< newmanbe> In TeX, I think you can specify special characters as commands. 15:44:59< akh> yup 15:45:00< newmanbe> And bigger. :) 15:45:09< newmanbe> With that one extra bit per letter. 15:45:56< newmanbe> s/letter/character 15:46:16 * akh vanishes into the public transportation system, to be seen again in a few hours. 15:46:34-!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has quit [] 15:49:22< gopherd> . 15:51:03-!- gopherd [n=irclogge@tor/session/x-16ff517e56d1aab8] has joined #fink 15:51:03-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis 15:51:03-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005] 15:51:03[Users #fink] 15:51:03[ Airo ] [ Clef ] [ gzl ] [ lisppaste ] [ pnorman ] [ usataway] 15:51:03[ Albie ] [ cls ] [ hennker ] [ mcp ] [ pogma ] [ ylon ] 15:51:03[ alejo ] [ cmeme ] [ htodd ] [ mdmonk-away] [ RangerRick] [ zorton ] 15:51:03[ armenb ] [ das_ ] [ jack- ] [ mee_bot ] [ RLD_osx ] 15:51:03[ BleedAway ] [ eno-away] [ JosephSpiros] [ Melian ] [ runelind ] 15:51:03[ brendan ] [ Erik____] [ jtyler_ ] [ muesli ] [ sid77 ] 15:51:03[ cianhughes] [ gecko2 ] [ kito ] [ newmanbe ] [ sn9 ] 15:51:03[ cirdan ] [ gopherd ] [ KraMer ] [ notFeanor ] [ swix_ ] 15:51:03-!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 43 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 43 normal] 15:51:04-!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug 3 17:57:20 2003 15:51:12< newmanbe> University of Minnesota's Gopher client. 8) 15:51:15-!- Irssi: Join to #fink was synced in 13 secs 15:51:21< RangerRick> ahh, well then forget it! 15:51:25 * RangerRick grins 15:51:31< RangerRick> link? 15:51:32< sn9> anything that works on HFSX ought to work on UFS 15:51:49< newmanbe> Great thing I have HFSX! ;) 15:51:58< RangerRick> sn9: too bad we can't guarantee fink users have case-sensitivity enabled 15:52:11< newmanbe> It doesn't *need* to be UFS, it just needs to be a case sensitive file system. 15:52:18< RangerRick> to run? or just build? 15:52:19< newmanbe> To be built. 15:52:27< RangerRick> ok, just making sure 15:52:29< newmanbe> I'm told just to build it. 15:52:39-!- sid77 [n=sid77@host-84-222-61-124.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has quit ["http://slackintosh.workaround.ch/"] 15:52:50< newmanbe> Slackintosh? 15:52:54< sn9> you know, cd9660 is case-sensitive as well... 15:53:07< newmanbe> That person didn't read Apple's trademark guidliens. 15:53:15< newmanbe> s/guidlines/guidlines/ 15:54:14< cirdan> newmanbe: there are packages that are modded to be built on non-case sensitive fs 15:54:20< newmanbe> I realized last night that my advocating the death of the World Wide Web could be viewed by the government of the United States to terroristy. 15:54:24< cirdan> research tarfilerename: 15:55:06< RangerRick> good point 15:55:20< RangerRick> are there only specific headers that conflict or something, newmanbe? 15:55:20< sn9> you could call for the death of gopher instead 15:55:21< cirdan> and if it's still maintained, file a bug on it 15:55:35< newmanbe> It is maintained. 15:55:41< newmanbe> Well, it gets security updates.... 15:56:04 * newmanbe goes back to figuring out sed. 15:56:49< cirdan> bug fix #12: 15:57:01< cirdan> rm -rf $builddir 15:57:55 * sn9 goes back to badgering RangerRick about freetype. 15:59:05< cirdan> RangerRick: you can play w/my packages if you're bored :-p 15:59:11< RangerRick> cirdan: hehe 15:59:15< RangerRick> trying to avoid work 15:59:23< RangerRick> leaving soon though, so I guess it doesn't matter too much 15:59:42 * cirdan must remember to update cdrdao... 16:00:14< sn9> sn9: the reason we don't is as of tiger, they use a reasonably modern freetype that even the freetype people recommend over the hinting engine, and there were so many problems with non-twolevel libraries causing conflicts between x11 and the fink one that it was just not worth trying to maintain our own 16:00:15< sn9> then this is correct for the 10.4 tree, but i don't see why that should be extended to the 10.3 tree 16:00:31< RangerRick> why shouldn't it? 16:01:29-!- brendan [n=nbrendan@albatross.kublai.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:01:37-!- citizen_0 [n=user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has joined #fink 16:01:50< newmanbe> Woot! 16:01:54< sn9> if the "reasonably modern freetype" is "as of tiger," then tiger and jaguar have a usable freetype, but panther doersn't 16:02:03< newmanbe> Now I just need to figure out what the regular expression for the end of a line is... 16:02:10< RangerRick> I meant panther 16:02:14< sn9> newmanbe: $ 16:02:21< newmanbe> That's what I thought. 16:02:24< RangerRick> as of xfree86 4.3 16:02:28< newmanbe> Oh, it probably has to be excaped. 16:03:12< newmanbe> es* 16:04:03< sn9> well, if the freetype ppl recommend what i'm now seeing over the hinting engine, they need to look at their screens once in a while... 16:04:23< sn9> s/look/look up/ 16:29:55-!- gopherd_ [n=irclogge@tor/session/x-d9b5b4b52c5e1262] has joined #fink 16:29:55-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis 16:29:55-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005] 16:29:55[Users #fink] 16:29:55[ Airo ] [ Clef ] [ gopherd ] [ jtyler_ ] [ Melian ] [ RangerRick] 16:29:55[ alejo ] [ cls ] [ gopherd_ ] [ kito ] [ muesli ] [ RLD_osx ] 16:29:55[ armenb ] [ cmeme ] [ gzl ] [ KraMer ] [ Murr ] [ runelind ] 16:29:55[ BleedAway] [ das_ ] [ hennker ] [ lisppaste ] [ newmanbe ] [ sn9 ] 16:29:55[ brendan ] [ eno-away] [ htodd ] [ mcp ] [ notFeanor] [ swix_ ] 16:29:55[ cirdan ] [ Erik____] [ jack- ] [ mdmonk-away] [ pnorman ] [ usataway ] 16:29:55[ citizen_0] [ gecko2 ] [ JosephSpiros] [ mee_bot ] [ pogma ] [ zorton ] 16:29:55-!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 42 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 42 normal] 16:29:56-!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug 3 17:57:20 2003 16:30:11-!- Irssi: Join to #fink was synced in 17 secs 16:35:15< sn9> is there any way to make 'otool -L' recursive? 16:39:31< brendan> shell script? 16:40:13< RangerRick> find -type -f | xargs otool -L 2>/dev/null | less 16:40:14< RangerRick> :) 16:40:34< runelind> is gnome pretty actively maintained? 16:40:41< RangerRick> runelind: getting there 16:40:43< RangerRick> but not yet :) 16:40:46< RangerRick> trying to get up-to-date 16:41:44< runelind> RangerRick: oh so you're the gnome maintainer as well? 16:41:58< RangerRick> no 16:42:04< RangerRick> there is no central maintainer 16:42:09< RangerRick> dmacks has been doing most of the update work 16:42:12< RangerRick> I've been helping a little here and there 16:42:18< runelind> ah, ok, that's why I was asking if it was pretty active 16:42:27< runelind> wondering if I would see 2.1.2 anytime soon 16:42:39< RangerRick> see: http://wiki.opendarwin.org/index.php/Fink:Packaging:Gnome 16:44:02< RangerRick> got gopher built without resorting to UFS :) 16:45:50< RangerRick> it even works 16:46:17< newmanbe> Wha! 16:46:23< newmanbe> It doesn't build for me. 16:46:32< newmanbe> You got the source from Debian? 16:46:38< RangerRick> it's called tarfilesrename and patch :) 16:46:41< RangerRick> yes 16:46:46< newmanbe> Oh. 16:46:50< newmanbe> Mind sharing? :) 16:46:57< RangerRick> getting there 16:47:03< newmanbe> Not at all like mind reading... :-p 16:47:06< RangerRick> I'll give it to you, I sure don't want to maintain it :) 16:48:25< newmanbe> Okay. 16:48:46< newmanbe> tarfilesrename is a feature in Fink or tar? 16:48:54 * newmanbe guesses Fink. 16:49:37< RangerRick> fink 16:49:48< RangerRick> what's the official homepage of gopher+ ? 16:50:36< runelind> someplace in minnesota 16:50:39< newmanbe> Umm, there isn't one. 16:50:40< newmanbe> BRB 16:50:44< newmanbe> runelind: Not anymore... 16:54:35< newmanbe> Okay, I'm back! 16:54:47< newmanbe> Let me look up the URI for the homepage of the Gopher Project... 16:55:03< mcp> good evening 16:55:07< newmanbe> mcp: Hello. 16:56:50-!- RangerRick is now known as RangerAway 16:57:53< newmanbe> Hmm, it isn't working. 16:58:01< newmanbe> I may have to e-mail the maintainer again. 17:00:47< newmanbe> gopher://gopher.quux.org/1/Software/Gopher I'll have to e-mail John Goerzen that it isn't working again though... 17:01:21-!- gopherd [n=irclogge@tor/session/x-16ff517e56d1aab8] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:01:23-!- You're now known as gopherd 17:03:59< RangerAway> it's not working in info-format yet, I'll let you know, probably tonight when I get home 17:06:27< newmanbe> Okay. 17:07:49 * newmanbe wacks his Internet Service Provider. 17:08:36< newmanbe> If something comes from a SMTP server of on of your clients, you should relay it! 17:08:57< newmanbe> In the good old days of last year it didn't block port 25 out... 17:09:45< mcp> re 17:12:24< newmanbe> Heh, they let me run a server even when I'm not supposed. 17:12:28< newmanbe> Or haven't noticed. 17:12:40< newmanbe> I wonder if they even would look for one on port 70... 17:24:28< mcp> is there something similar to netio on osx? 17:25:17< newmanbe> Maybe, what does netio do? 17:26:57< mcp> measures net throughput 17:27:24-!- hennker_ [i=flullup@dsl-082-083-247-233.arcor-ip.net] has joined #fink 17:27:41< newmanbe> In Activity Monitor.app, there is something like that. 17:27:48< newmanbe> So somewhere there is... 17:29:11< cirdan> darkstat can 17:29:13< cirdan> ntop... 17:30:10-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 17:30:18-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #fink 17:33:28-!- hennker [i=flullup@dsl-213-023-248-252.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:37:12-!- bkn [n=bkn@c-66-30-12-210.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fink 17:37:42< bkn> hello, has anyone been able to play audio with amarok in fink? 17:41:17< newmanbe> Can you play audio with any other KDE application programs? 17:42:24-!- hennker_ is now known as hennker 17:44:03< bkn> newmanbe, no, but i have amarok selected to use gstreamer as its backend. 17:44:35< newmanbe> Does anything else work for you with gstreamer? 17:44:58< bkn> newmanbe, and gstreamer is giving me an error, which is a different error that i was getting 2 days ago (gstreamer and amarok were recently updated) 17:45:10< bkn> newmanbe, yes i am able to get a test tone through gstreamer. 17:45:45< bkn> newmanbe, i talked with the folks in #gstreamer. they helped me with testing gstreamer on OS X. 17:46:06< newmanbe> Hmm, you'll have to wait until RangerRick comes back. 17:46:25< bkn> the command 'gst-launch-0.8 sinesrc ! adder ! audioconvert ! osxaudiosink' will produce a tone. 17:46:28< bkn> ahh okay. 17:46:49< bkn> newmanbe, thanks though. it's good to get some response ;) 17:47:52-!- Murr [n=neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:04:39-!- Macrobyte [n=macrobyt@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has joined #fink 18:07:04-!- Macrobyte [n=macrobyt@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:12:38-!- bkn [n=bkn@c-66-30-12-210.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:22:17-!- gopherd [n=irclogge@tor/session/x-a72b73524aadddf3] has joined #fink 18:22:17-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis 18:22:17-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005] 18:22:17[Users #fink] 18:22:17[ Airo ] [ Clef ] [ gopherd ] [ kito ] [ muesli ] [ runelind] 18:22:17[ alejo ] [ cls ] [ gzl ] [ KraMer ] [ newmanbe ] [ sn9 ] 18:22:17[ armenb ] [ cmeme ] [ hennker ] [ lisppaste ] [ notFeanor ] [ swix_ ] 18:22:17[ BleedAway] [ das_ ] [ htodd ] [ mcp ] [ pnorman ] [ usataway] 18:22:17[ brendan ] [ eno-away] [ jack- ] [ mdmonk-away] [ pogma ] [ zorton ] 18:22:17[ cirdan ] [ Erik____] [ JosephSpiros] [ mee_bot ] [ RangerAway] 18:22:17[ citizen_0] [ gecko2 ] [ jtyler_ ] [ Melian ] [ RLD_osx ] 18:22:17-!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 40 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 40 normal] 18:22:18-!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug 3 17:57:20 2003 18:22:30-!- Irssi: Join to #fink was synced in 13 secs 18:57:10-!- regeya [n=shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has joined #fink 19:03:21-!- mGiff [n=mGiff@ottawa-hs-64-26-147-197.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #fink 19:15:20-!- sn9 [n=danielg4@gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:19:11-!- vasi [n=vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink 19:19:52< vasi> !seen drm 19:20:24< pogma> me either (not seen drm) 19:25:28-!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink 19:25:33< vasi> hi akh 19:25:37< vasi> thanks for testing unison :-) 19:26:03< akh> No problem 19:26:30< akh> hmmm.../me wonders if today's the day I can update KDE. 19:26:48-!- Murr [n=neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink 19:26:52-!- regeya [n=shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:27:38< akh> meh--buildconflict doesn't work with Provides. 19:29:07< akh> At least it just stopped at setting the buildlock. 19:30:05-!- mGiff [n=mGiff@ottawa-hs-64-26-147-197.d-ip.magma.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 19:31:05< vasi> buildconflicts doesn't work properly, and never has 19:31:14< vasi> there's an open bug, i'll get around to it eventually 19:31:52 * akh ranted about another strange behavior earlier today. 19:33:09< akh> (buildconflicted package gets reinstalled after the very next package is installed, even if it's from a binary and /or isn't the package with the conflict) 19:35:02< akh> That's clearly a 1.0 - blocker. 19:35:05< akh> ;-) 19:35:29< vasi> yeah, same problem i think 19:35:35< vasi> and i'll get to it :-) 19:35:53< akh> Fair enough. :-) 19:36:02< vasi> it's going to wait until dmacks completely figures out our buildlocks strategy, since it may need to use the same mechanism 19:36:07< akh> ah 19:36:23-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink 19:36:38< vasi> in the meantime, you can update your fink from head and try out 'fink list' with different --trees and --exclude-trees options :-) 19:36:41< akh> Good summoning. 19:36:44< vasi> hi dmacks 19:37:07< dmacks> hiy'all 19:37:18< akh> hey 19:37:20< dmacks> Aw crap, missed Ranger again. 19:38:25< dmacks> vasi (regarding your ggz* pkgs...so they use libhowl-* and never the parent libhowl? 19:38:36< vasi> dmacks, that's right 19:38:39-!- drm [n=drm@kitp121.itp.ucsb.edu] has joined #fink 19:38:47< vasi> hey drm 19:38:53< drm> hey vasi 19:39:02< drm> hi dmacks 19:40:00< dmacks> Okay. I'm gonna kill libhowl itself soon then. 19:40:10< dmacks> hi drm 19:40:27< drm> did you see my message to fink-gnome-core about gconf2, dmacks? 19:40:46< dmacks> Yeah...your selfupdate didn't work. 19:41:03< drm> the patch file for the new version doesn't patch 19:41:26< dmacks> You read my response on-list? 19:42:23< drm> no, i'm not subscribed, and gmane doesn't have it 19:42:58< vasi> drm, i'd like your opinion on the patch to allow fink to support Module::Build for perl packages, when you have time: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=998741&group_id=17203&atid=317203 19:43:30< dmacks> gconf2 10.4T/unstable is in the 2.12.x series...I bet your cvs update didn't pull the latest .info for some reason, so you've got mismatched .info vs .patch 19:43:41< vasi> the current plan is that BuildDepends: module-build-pm5* would automagically cause Type: perl (5.*) packages to use Module::Build to build 19:44:24< drm> well, i cvs updated just before trying, but i'm willing to cvs update again... half a sec 19:45:18< drm> cvs update did not change the file, dmacks 19:45:36< dmacks> Maybe you've got a sticky tag on it? 19:45:43< dmacks> Wot's the Version in that file? 19:45:44< drm> moreover, the gconf2.patch that i have has entries like GConf-2.12.0 19:46:00< drm> which sounds right, since the .info is for 2.12.0-1 19:46:04< drm> but it doesn't patch! 19:46:19< dmacks> The msg you sent said it was building 2.10.x 19:46:40< drm> hmm...so it did 19:46:43 * drm tries again 19:49:31< drm> ok, my system must've been pretty darned confused before 19:49:43< drm> seems to be working now; thanks for your patience 19:49:51< dmacks> np:) 19:50:33 * dmacks spent 3 hrs fighting gnome-games...at least gconf I understand at all:) 19:50:39< drm> vasi: so BuildDepends is being used as a cue to build differently, rather than to load a package? 19:51:05< vasi> drm, it still means that the package module-build-pm5* is needed 19:51:11< vasi> so it retains that 19:51:23< drm> but it's something more than that, right? 19:51:24< vasi> but it *also* has magic to make fink build differently 19:51:36< vasi> yeah...i'm kinda uneasy with this way, so that's why i want more input 19:51:43< drm> yeah...i'm uneasy too 19:51:46 * drm thinks 19:52:22 * dmacks is uneasy as well but only alternative is a new Type, which /me doesn't like any better. 19:52:52< drm> well, Type: PerlModule doesn't sound too bad 19:53:05< dmacks> Well, it would be less magic and less surprising to the casual .info reader/writer. 19:53:17< vasi> i personally wouldn't mind if we allowed more magic types 19:53:33< drm> and we could make module-build-pm5* an essential package, so that it would be there for building 19:53:56< vasi> (though we'd need to think about how to nicely define the different magic types) 19:54:23< drm> how to define, how to document, how to comment all the special cases in the code so that our successors can maintain it easily... 19:54:32< vasi> drm, no reason for it to be essential, just add it to BuildDeps either manually or automatically 19:54:36< vasi> drm, yes 19:54:52< vasi> there's no reason not to have a python type too, for that matter 19:54:55< drm> well, again, an automatic builddep (as a special case) is dangerous 19:55:12< drm> because somebody will forget about it, and break it someday 19:55:23< dmacks> If it's essential, we get a mess if someone wants to use it for a module that is not perl-versioned. 19:55:31< drm> i would rather have fink ensure that all of the build tools it might need are present 19:55:36< dmacks> crap...if it's *not* essential 19:57:01< dmacks> That's the same mess we have with intltool and XML::Parser. 19:57:13 * dmacks hates that we have /sw/bin/perl 19:57:57< drm> i thought intltool was ok now 19:58:39< dmacks> It's okay, but *very* fragile. 19:59:13-!- alejo [n=tanks@84-72-231-240.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit ["going underground, the jam"] 19:59:18< vasi> i'm not sure if i get why we'd get a mess 20:00:08< dmacks> Say I'm building foo-pm (*not* perl-versioned). I need to BuildDepends:module-build-pmXXX, but which XXX? 20:00:26< vasi> doesn't it just not matter? 20:00:36< drm> when you are building foo-pm, fink should be using /usr/bin/perl, no? 20:00:57 * drm doesn't remember 20:01:20< vasi> er, or rather shouldn't we just explicitly specify which perl module-build uses? 20:01:32< vasi> so 'perl5.8.6 Build install' 20:02:04< vasi> (if we're building with module-build-pm586) 20:02:15< pogma> hi drm 20:02:22< drm> hi pogma 20:03:15< cirdan> hey drm 20:03:28< cirdan> pogma. 20:03:36< drm> hey cirdan...i'm fooling with cdrdao and gcdmaster even as we speak 20:03:44< cirdan> so, anyone have a dotster account? 20:03:48< pogma> did you know that David, in German, is not pronounced "day-vid" :) 20:03:49< dmacks> For Type:perl (unversioned) we use "first 'perl' in PATH". 20:03:57< drm> pogma: yes :) 20:04:26< drm> dmacks: i guess that's because it shouldn't matter... but this will be a problem with module-build 20:04:27< cirdan> drm: any progress? 20:04:34< dmacks> Yup. 20:04:43< vasi> dmacks, for module-build we should do something different then :-) 20:04:44< cirdan> i'm ssh'd in to my box, so i can look now if not 20:04:55< vasi> pogma, good to know! 20:04:58< drm> cirdan: just started... looks like a fair amount of dependencies will need updating and so on 20:05:27< cirdan> drm: pogma liked the idea of trying to get control of finkmirrors.net 20:05:40< cirdan> since we have a fink corp and it's regidtered to fink 20:05:44< cirdan> registered 20:05:51< dmacks> Type:PerlModule (unversioned) would use /usr/bin/perl and implicitly insert BuildDepends on the corresponding module-build-pmXXX? 20:05:59< drm> cirdan: my main goal is to get rid of gtkmm and gnomemm (in favor of their gnome2 successors), which i think will work 20:06:26< drm> dmacks: not guaranteeing that this will work, without testing, but that's what I'd try 20:06:49< dmacks> So it acts like it's essential, but it really isn't:) 20:06:52< drm> cirdan: do we know which DNS provider he used? 20:07:00< cirdan> dotster 20:07:07< cirdan> whois finkmirrors.net 20:07:21< drm> dmacks: i guess one question is whether we can make a module-build-pm which has no XXX? wouldn't that solve it? 20:07:35< dmacks> That would indeed solve it. 20:07:36< pogma> his work, uptime.at is the main DNS provider, with a bunch of other "volunteer" providers 20:07:53< drm> cirdan: and how do we prove to dotster that we have the right to take it over? 20:08:06< cirdan> drm: fink letterhead! 20:08:08< cirdan> :-) 20:08:19< drm> anybody can make a letterhead 20:08:37< drm> pogma: former work? 20:08:43< vasi> dmacks, drm: isn't module-build pure perl? 20:08:45< pogma> yeah 20:08:50< vasi> why do we have a pm5* ? 20:09:07< drm> i have no idea, unless its because of dependencies 20:09:17< dmacks> Depends:archive-tar-pmXXX 20:09:55< drm> pogma: before bringing to uptime.at's attention that they are providing this DNS, perhaps we should have a backup plan in place 20:10:15< vasi> dmacks, ah 20:10:15< dmacks> We also have to be careful that our solution (and dozens of pkgs that use it) don't break if Module::Build really does start using compiled stuff. 20:10:51< vasi> dmacks, i consider that somewhat unlikely...since the whole point of module-build is to be pure perl 20:11:00< dmacks> True true. 20:11:06< vasi> but if it does happen, /usr/bin/perl should still work, right? 20:11:24< dmacks> We could always keep an older version (perl-unversioned) around too. 20:11:39< dmacks> ...if we could solve archive-tar 20:12:21< drm> pogma: does bbraun want to host the DNS? if not, perhaps somebody like das_? 20:12:36< dmacks> drm: I think we either have to have all the existing DNS providers change their records or else find new DNS providers and have Dotster change the DNS providers list. 20:12:45< cirdan> drm: i dont think there is a problem hosting it w/bbraun 20:13:11< dmacks> (...taking old-DNS-providers out of the loop until they either update to the new DNS records or just go away) 20:13:16 * drm is relatively ignorant about these things, although he "owns" a few domains himself 20:13:17 * cirdan is an admin on sancho and lamancha for doing fink stuff 20:13:24< pogma> bbraun and or newlywed das 20:13:39 * cirdan can host it on his cable line! yay 20:13:40< drm> ah, newlywed...didn't know that...probably kinda busy :) 20:13:58< cirdan> drm: he was active on irc, honeymoon is over ;-) 20:14:18< drm> i got a great invite yesterday... a formal invitation from a six-month old boy...i am invited to the wedding of his parents :) 20:14:26< pogma> http://daveandvalerie.com/pictures/wedding/wedding.html 20:14:30< cirdan> heh 20:14:44< dmacks> heh 20:15:33< pogma> 6 months old, don't they feel like they are rushing into things? :-p 20:15:34< dmacks> "The 5-week fetus of ... invites you to a wedding tomorrow" 20:15:42< drm> hehe 20:16:25< drm> pogma: you know, they were busy having a baby and all, too busy to have a wedding 20:16:29< dmacks> Coupla years ago I went to a shotgun wedding in Tennessee. It was...interesting. 20:16:39< cirdan> dmacks: hehe 20:16:54< pogma> dmacks: and your wife is still there? 20:17:02< dmacks> ha! 20:17:15< drm> actually, in this case there is a jewish/baptist thing to deal with, which i believe slowed things down 20:17:24< cirdan> oh yeah 20:17:28< cirdan> i bet :-) 20:17:29< akh> Definitely. 20:17:42< dmacks> Not for the couple's "coupling" apparently 20:18:06< drm> you don't know the half of it 20:18:11< akh> That's biology--much easier to accomodate than religion. 20:18:20< drm> (this is an IV baby actually) 20:18:43< akh> (feigned gasp of horror) 20:18:59< vasi> yow 20:19:06< vasi> not over the IV 20:19:12< vasi> over the jewish/baptist thing 20:19:27< akh> heh--apropos last night? 20:19:39< drm> well, it is of greater concern to the families of the couple than to the couple themselves, of course 20:19:55< akh> That's usually the way of it, yes. 20:20:10< dmacks> "Something Baptis't, something Jew'b, something borrowed, something in a test-tube"? 20:20:13< drm> and i imagine that "we're grandparents, let them get married already" must have been heard 20:20:41< drm> dmacks: blue test tube 20:21:27< drm> anyway, gotta run...later, all 20:21:30< dmacks> ta 20:21:34< vasi> toodles drm 20:21:42-!- drm [n=drm@kitp121.itp.ucsb.edu] has quit [] 20:21:42< cirdan> night drm 20:22:28< akh> Must be dinnertime. 20:23:00< newmanbe> < Oops. 20:23:13 * newmanbe goes to see what he just pasted. 20:23:15-!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:23:36< newmanbe> Hmm, no idea where that came from. 20:29:23-!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink 20:29:30< akh> msg NIckserv IDENTIFY Zaradel 20:29:52< akh> crap 20:29:55 * pogma watches akh kick himself 20:30:13< newmanbe> dmacks has done that too. 20:30:17< cirdan> hehe 20:30:20< dmacks> Yup. 20:30:26< cirdan> quite a number of people have... 20:30:35< newmanbe> In here? 20:30:44< cirdan> yes 20:31:25< akh> grrr 20:31:31< dmacks> Fro some reason my identd is very slow, so all attempts at auto-identifying seem to fail. 20:32:06 * akh is too used to having my ident in the keychain (Colloquy) 20:32:08< akh> stupid linux 20:32:13< newmanbe> identd is silly. 20:32:35< cirdan> heh 20:32:38< cirdan> taxoli 20:32:43< dmacks> One can learn a lot about people by looking at their low-security password choices:) 20:32:45< newmanbe> It's a nice idea though. 20:33:26< akh> msg nickserv 1234 20:33:28< dmacks> (that's a cannoli stuffed with chemotherapeutics) 20:33:45 * dmacks goes to reset luggage code. 20:34:02< akh> tamoxifoli would work, too. 20:34:39< akh> (with a bit of a stretch) 20:35:01< dmacks> 'cept I've never done any tamoxifen research, so harder to remember. 20:35:06< akh> ah 20:35:44 * akh went with my wife to a dinner talk on it (gotta love free food) 20:35:51< dmacks> nice:) 20:36:19< dmacks> I've been to talks on all kinds of crazy crap that I can't remember how to spell. 20:37:48-!- citizen_0 [n=user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:37:57< newmanbe> Whoa, irssi isn't taking up ~25% of my CPU. 20:38:25< akh> That's the problem with my area of physics--no industry people to pay for dinner/drinks. 20:39:20 * newmanbe wonders why kernel_task is hogging the CPU. 20:39:28 * akh finally bit the bullet and updated KDE here on my Linux box--I had to sacrifice a few apps but it was worth it. 20:39:40< dmacks> If you rode into a bar using that dipole thingy as a hover-skateboard, I bet you could get some free drinks. 20:40:04< akh> Yeah, but the stray magnetic field would play hell with pacemakers. ;-) 20:40:21< dmacks> When they keel over, you can drink their beer. 20:40:56< dmacks> Would make playing darts "interesting" too I bet. 20:41:08< akh> Yup. 20:41:46< akh> OMG--I haven't had a KDE menu here in so long! 20:42:28< newmanbe> I haven't KDE at all in so long. 20:42:31< dmacks> Anyone know anything about miga's status? Did half of Europe sink into the ocean or somesuch? 20:42:48< dmacks> (KDE reminds me about gnome-menus) 20:43:09< newmanbe> The ocean would go under the land. 20:43:25< newmanbe> dmacks: Check the Fink Developer Map. ;) 20:44:04< newmanbe> Because they are less dense, the oceanic plate goes under the more dense plate... 20:44:27 * dmacks thinks you are missing the point here:) 20:44:28< newmanbe> Don't 'ya love the theory of plate techtonics? 20:44:43< newmanbe> dmacks: Go check the map. ;) 20:44:48< newmanbe> Melian: seen miga 20:44:55 * newmanbe pokes Melian. 20:44:57< akh> !seen Melian 20:45:01 * newmanbe pokes cirdan too. 20:45:26< dmacks> It's just a theory...I have a theory that the continents rest upon a bed of Nerf balls, and I demand equal time in science classes! 20:46:10< newmanbe> Blaphamy! 20:46:19< newmanbe> Stone him! 20:46:32< dmacks> But I didn't say Jehovah! 20:46:43< newmanbe> You could be the Stephen of the hypothesis of the bed of Nerf balls. 20:47:05< dmacks> How many Steves are they up to now? 20:47:28< newmanbe> Heh. Haven't read your Acts of the Apostles lately? ;) 20:47:38< akh> dmacks, as long as the Nerf balls are no more than 6000 years old... 20:48:44< dmacks> Well some of them were old when they were created, so we're still okay. 20:48:51< akh> ah 20:48:57< newmanbe> Hmm, sounds fishy. 20:49:04< akh> That whole "Omphalos" thing. 20:49:06< newmanbe> How much will you pay me to believe it? 20:49:30< akh> It would be self-evident if you believed. 20:49:33< akh> ;-) 20:49:50< newmanbe> How much will you pay to evangalize it? 20:50:21< dmacks> Those who don't believe are destined to a life of perpetual obscurity, like those damn Wiffleballists. 20:50:41< akh> Who? Never heard of 'em. 20:50:45< dmacks> Exactly. 20:50:47 * newmanbe calls RangerRick back. 20:53:32-!- pogma [n=peter@opendarwin/developer/pogma] has quit ["leaving"] 20:54:14 * akh wants an iTunes-enabled phone with Bluetooth and the ability to use my songs as ringtones. 20:54:28 * newmanbe wants the death of Apple! 20:54:40< newmanbe> Down with the GUI and the company that made it popular! 20:54:56< akh> Heh 20:55:21< dmacks> If it weren't for a GUI, I couldn't have lots of terminal windows open at once. 20:55:35< newmanbe> You would use virtual consoles and screen. 20:56:03< akh> And don't forget about the trees--no print preview. 20:56:20< vasi> the acronym "GUI" is silly 20:56:27< newmanbe> vasi: True. 20:56:31< vasi> a console is still 'graphical' 20:56:33< dmacks> Plain-test hardly needs a "preview" option though. 20:56:34< newmanbe> akh: You don't just use plain text? 20:56:37< dmacks> *text 20:56:47< newmanbe> vasi: Give me a better name and I'll use it. :) 20:56:48< akh> newmanbe: Not to plot thousands of points I don't. 20:57:19< newmanbe> Then you obviously shouldn't be doing that. 20:57:23< dmacks> In college we still had a few machines that were really tty interface. 20:57:57 * dmacks gives shout-out to proprietary legacy hardware 20:58:40< akh> When I with my research group in grad school, there were a few GraphOn terminals around. 20:59:01< akh> Ugly green text + graphics, w00t! 20:59:26 * dmacks nods, then convulses with the memory thereof 20:59:34< dmacks> I hate you. 21:00:14< akh> I think we used _one_ of them until like 1997, when it was replaced by a DEC workstation. 21:00:21< akh> mmm...VMS. 21:00:48< akh> Oh, wait, no--we had the workstation, and we replaced the graphon with a mac. 21:01:44< akh> DIdn't want to run our data acquisition sequencer on the same box that we did our plotting on. 21:01:46< dmacks> Ours were Adakos (however that's spelled) 21:02:10-!- msachs [n=msachs@c-24-34-72-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fink 21:02:14-!- pogma [n=peter@opendarwin/developer/pogma] has joined #fink 21:02:18< msachs> 'LO 21:02:26< msachs> Stupid caps lock, damn key should be drawn and quartered. 21:02:28< msachs> Hey pogma. 21:02:31< gopherd> Welcome back msachs and pogma! 21:02:33< dmacks> alo 21:02:49< akh> hi 21:02:50< pogma> msachs: did my email on the whole_archive thingy help? 21:03:01< pogma> sorry, I typed it in a bit of a hurry 21:03:02< msachs> You sent me an email? 21:03:09< pogma> Hmm 21:03:46< pogma> you asked me about libtool and -all_loadl 21:03:54-!- hennker [i=flullup@dsl-082-083-247-233.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["leaving"] 21:04:03< msachs> Yeah. 21:04:46< pogma> mailer shows a reply having been sent, oh well, I'll send another one :) 21:04:56< msachs> Oh, right, you did. 21:05:19< msachs> I have a bad habit of either acting on emails immediately or forgetting about them :) 21:05:30< pogma> don't we all 21:08:35< msachs> Yeah, it was just one package that was getting that error, pdflib. 21:10:30< msachs> So how've you been? I haven't been around lately. 21:10:56< dmacks> ...but now you're on parole? 21:11:28< pogma> fine, you're busy with school/work/life? 21:11:58< vasi> hmmm, i think "school/work" and "life" are mutually exclusive 21:12:20< msachs> Heya dmacks, vasi. 21:12:28< dmacks> heh 21:12:29< vasi> howdy msachs 21:12:46< msachs> Yeah, I've been busy with all three of those. 21:13:58< msachs> School shouldn't be too bad, I'm only doing three courses. 21:14:54< dmacks> Out of how many for which you are registered? 21:14:59< msachs> Work I'm only allowed to do 19.5 hours a week of, unfortunately, because of weird thingies and me still officially being an intern. 21:15:02< msachs> ;P 21:15:19< newmanbe> 19.5? 21:15:21< msachs> If I really wanted to be a bastard, I'd not even bother going to one and take one of the others pass/fail, I just need another couple of credits to graduate. 21:15:27< msachs> Yep. 21:16:05< dmacks> Prolly related to what would be considered "full-time employment" I assume? 21:16:17 * newmanbe unofficially makes you officially not an intern. 21:16:31< dmacks> /nick msachs_extern ? 21:16:37< newmanbe> lol 21:16:42< msachs> heheh 21:17:15< msachs> Sucked this week since I still got paid for labor day, so I really only get 11.5. 21:18:29< msachs> I mean I'm only in classes 9 hours a week, I need something to do with my time... 21:19:12< newmanbe> 19.5 + 9 = 30 21:19:19< dmacks> Write a pluging for Wiki to have pages do dynamic inclusion from external sources. 21:19:28< dmacks> *plugin 21:20:04< newmanbe> Or not because those are all exact numbers. 21:20:14< dmacks> (Or at least a way to make tables not look like ass.) 21:21:16< msachs> Have you seen zevils.com? I'm not the one to turn to for things not looking like ass... 21:22:32< dmacks> Looks okay in lynx, so what's the problem? 21:22:58< msachs> Yeah, that's my philosophy too... 21:23:12< msachs> I upgraded it from HTML 3 to XHTML by lowercasing the tags and sticking / on the end of br. 21:23:40< dmacks> I remember the crisis I went through when I first added a table to my homepage, spent a long time making it still look okay in lynx. 21:23:53< newmanbe> Eew. 21:24:02< msachs> It's alright if you stick br at the end of rows. 21:24:26< msachs> They told you to do that when I was learning HTML. And to remember to feed your brontosaurus if you want frames to work. 21:24:34< newmanbe> No, it's not alright! 21:24:50< newmanbe> You don't want frames! Working or otherwise. 21:25:47< akh> mmm...frames 21:26:46 * akh hears the call of the Dark Side. 21:27:05 * newmanbe get's out the light. 21:27:17< newmanbe> Gopher is the way! The truth! The light! 21:27:38< akh> Flash and Imagemaps all the way! 21:27:48< msachs> Don't make me summon Jakob Nielsen. 21:27:51< msachs> I'll do it. 21:27:57< akh> No text! 21:28:15< akh> *smack* 21:28:40 * akh recovers from that "episode" ;-) 21:28:48< dmacks> er, isn't Flash a bit too platform-independent? 21:29:04< akh> Yeah, but it's bloated. 21:29:14< newmanbe> Says the person with GNU+Linux/PowerPC. 21:29:18< dmacks> Well at least it's got that going for it. 21:29:52 * akh figures it's just as well that I never figured out how to get Flash to work for Firefox here. 21:30:07-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 21:30:09< akh> Konqueror seems to handle it OK, though. 21:30:13-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #fink 21:30:19< newmanbe> lisppaste: url? 21:30:31< akh> ssh...don't pressure it. 21:30:42< akh> lisppaste has been having a rough time. 21:30:45< lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste. 21:30:49< newmanbe> s/url?/Totally disgusting HTTP thingy?/ 21:31:47< akh> If you figure out a gopher pastebot, feel free to have it here too. 21:33:29< newmanbe> Heh. 21:33:35< dmacks> Signs your CPU is gonna catch fire soon: each frame of the 'expand this submenu' arrow rotation animation takes about a second. 21:33:44< newmanbe> Could use Gopher+ or just plain ol' telnet. 21:34:02 * akh starts an oo.org build. Hope my computer doesn't fall into a coma again. 21:34:14< akh> dmacks: Yeah, that's bad. 21:34:36< akh> Damn gettext-dev/buildlock crap again! 21:34:40< newmanbe> I think RangerRick lied to me. 21:34:44< newmanbe> Where's my package! 21:34:54< akh> What package? 21:35:09< newmanbe> U-MN's gopher client. 21:35:16 * RangerAway is working on it ;) 21:35:23< RangerAway> just got on the computer 21:35:27< newmanbe> Oh. 21:35:45< akh> It's been a good "summoning" night. 21:35:53< RangerAway> heh 21:35:54< dmacks> heh 21:36:01-!- RangerAway is now known as RangerRick 21:36:58< dmacks> RangerAway: When you get a chance, could you update distcc's deps? Starting in [whatever the current version is], the pkg "libhowl" is deprecated. 21:37:05< msachs> 'lo RangerRick 21:37:11< dmacks> (all dev now is in -dev) 21:37:56< RangerRick> dmacks: ok 21:38:37< dmacks> danke 21:43:04< akh> oy--why _does_ oo.org have to roll its own dependendencies? 21:43:55< newmanbe> Because it was made by the same people who made .app packages at NeXT. 21:44:26< dmacks> Because that way Todai gets to rediscover how much 10.3's ip6 resolver sucks? 21:44:42< akh> Even if it can't use the appropriate fink packages as depends, why can't they be splitoffized and Conflict/Replace the normal packages. 21:44:50< akh> ? 21:44:55< akh> dmacks: good point 21:46:58< newmanbe> I wan't window shade! Not the silly window minimization thing! 21:47:04< newmanbe> s/wan't/want/ 21:47:07< dmacks> So enable it. 21:47:18< newmanbe> dmacks: Where/how? 21:47:44< dmacks> akh: Do we know if oo.o specially patches python and other stuff, or just rolls its own copy of the normal one? 21:48:19< akh> newmanbe: I've got a program that does it. 21:48:30 * dmacks used to have one, dunno where anymore. 21:48:34< akh> dmacks: I've no idea. 21:48:42< akh> newmanbe: I use WindowShadeX. 21:48:51< akh> I bought it at about 10.0. 21:48:54< dmacks> So...what's the problem? 21:49:00< newmanbe> dmacks: Use the file searhcing thing that Apple has that I forgot the name to. 21:49:09< dmacks> Sherlock? 21:49:18< newmanbe> No, the thingy in 10.4. 21:49:34< akh> Spotlight. 21:49:40< newmanbe> Yeah, that's it. 21:49:46< dmacks> "dunno where anymore"=="no longer have it" 21:50:03< dmacks> Got lost when I installed 10.2, never cared enough to find it again. 21:50:28< akh> dmacks: I thought an attempt was made to use the Fink python but it didn't work. 21:50:34< dmacks> dunno 21:50:54< akh> You were on the thread! 21:51:03< dmacks> What's your point? 21:51:14< akh> Nothing. ;-) 21:51:19< dmacks> :) 21:51:43 * dmacks doesn't have the HD space to mess with it. 21:52:25 * newmanbe apparently doesn't have the CPU to mess with it. 21:52:50< newmanbe> kernel_task and irssi is sucking everything up... 21:52:54< newmanbe> s/is/are/ 21:53:00 * dmacks just learns that "catchup" in slrn only marks-read what is displayed, not "all msg-numbers up to the latest one" 21:54:21< akh> anybody remember whether Java.pkg is in the Tiger main install area or from XCode? 21:54:43 * newmanbe would imagine the main install. 21:54:56< newmanbe> If it was in XCode, it would probably be JavaSDK.pkg or something. 21:55:28< akh> Well, yeah, but it _does_ have headers. 21:57:56< dmacks> Please to stop trying to make sense out of Apple's .pkg layouts. 21:58:08< akh> OK. ;-) 21:58:10< newmanbe> lol 21:58:14 * akh goes to bed instead. 21:58:15-!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:58:55< vasi> toodles folks 21:58:59< dmacks> ta 21:59:33-!- vasi [n=vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Client exiting"] 21:59:46< newmanbe> Everyone is leaving... 22:01:34< RangerRick> run! 22:01:58< newmanbe> Goodnight. 22:02:10< newmanbe> 'cept I don't log off.. 22:02:17< RangerRick> http://ranger.befunk.com/misc/gopher.info http://ranger.befunk.com/misc/gopher.patch 22:03:02< RangerRick> all yours newmanbe 22:04:14-!- RangerRick is now known as RangerAway 22:06:05 * newmanbe wacks RangerAway. 22:38:48-!- mGiff [n=mGiff@ottawa-hs-64-26-147-197.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #fink 22:44:27-!- mGiff [n=mGiff@ottawa-hs-64-26-147-197.d-ip.magma.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 22:59:06-!- beniamino [n=ben@adsl-64-164-10-189.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #fink 22:59:12< beniamino> join #opendarwin 23:00:26< dmacks> heh 23:12:31-!- Murr [n=neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:41:38< beniamino> does anyone have tcl working under tiger... like, actually _working_? 23:43:48< beniamino> anytime i 'package require' anything, it dies with a bus error coz it's reading darwinports/os x packages 23:44:46< dmacks> I only have 10.3 and no dports here:( 23:52:15< beniamino> hmm... seems like having other tcls' packages in the path is a bad idea. asking for trouble 23:54:15-!- msachs [n=msachs@c-24-34-72-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:57:45 * dmacks nods at beniamino 23:58:44< beniamino> dmacks: is there a good way to 'help the maintainter to care' about it? i emailed the maintainer, filed a bug... 23:59:22< dmacks> Who is the maintainer, what's the package? --- Log closed Fri Sep 09 00:00:11 2005 .