--- Log opened Wed Sep 07 00:00:55 2005
00:06:13-!- gopherd__ [n=irclogge@tor/session/x-ba9d23b20758316b] has joined #fink
00:06:13-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis
00:06:13-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005]
00:06:13[Users #fink]
00:06:13[ Airo      ] [ Clef    ] [ gopherd_    ] [ jtyler_    ] [ mee_bot  ] [ RangerAway] 
00:06:13[ armenb    ] [ cmeme   ] [ gopherd__   ] [ kane-xs_   ] [ Melian   ] [ RLD_osx   ] 
00:06:13[ beniamino ] [ dmacks  ] [ grub_booter ] [ kito       ] [ muesli   ] [ runelind  ] 
00:06:13[ BleedAway ] [ eno-away] [ gzl         ] [ KraMer     ] [ newmanbe ] [ swix_     ] 
00:06:13[ brendan   ] [ Erik____] [ htodd       ] [ lisppaste  ] [ notFeanor] [ usataway  ] 
00:06:13[ cianhughes] [ gecko2  ] [ jack-       ] [ mcp        ] [ pnorman  ] [ vasi      ] 
00:06:13[ cirdan    ] [ gopherd ] [ JosephSpiros] [ mdmonk-away] [ pogma    ] [ zorton    ] 
00:06:13-!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 42 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 42 normal]
00:06:17-!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug  3 17:57:20 2003
00:06:28-!- Irssi: Join to #fink was synced in 19 secs
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00:20:59< vasi> dmacks, you wanted me?
00:23:58-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
00:24:11< msachs> Evidently not.
00:24:46< vasi> meh
00:24:52< vasi> how does it msachs?
00:25:02< msachs> Not bad.
00:25:11< msachs> Been busy settling into the new place and starting classes back up.
00:27:03< msachs> You?
00:27:44< vasi> also back to school...got mondays and fridays off this term, woot!
00:27:56< msachs> I have Mon, Wed, and Thu off :)
00:27:58< msachs> What're you taking?
00:28:12< vasi> damn i hate you :-P
00:28:29< msachs> Well it's my last semester, so I'm just going through the motions, really.
00:28:57< vasi> my major is Comp Eng...only really serious courses are Signals & Systems 2, and Computer Graphics
00:29:09< vasi> (this term)
00:29:26< msachs> Mm.
00:29:31< msachs> Sounds cool.
00:30:04< vasi> engineering curriculum up here is crazy though, the major is 115 credits over 3 years....i've not seen a single student who has finished it in 3 years
00:30:31< msachs> Oh, wow.
00:34:33< vasi> it's almost all core courses too, only two electives in all the 3 years
00:34:47< vasi> us canucks are all nuts :-)
00:36:00< vasi> !seen drm
00:36:00< Melian> drm <n=drm@ip68-108-245-119.sb.sd.cox.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 2h 51m 6s ago, saying: 'bbl'.
00:36:05< msachs> Ya nutters.
00:36:34< msachs> Oh, did you know that Calgary has the nickname "cowtipping"?  Because it came up during trivia tonight, and our token friend from the great white north had never heard that nickname.
00:38:01< vasi> nickname? i thought cowtipping was an activity
00:38:37< vasi> folks at cornell were always spreading rumors about ppl doing it, and how one should go about it without getting killed by a large angry animal
00:38:42< msachs> Mmm.
00:38:56< msachs> Probably one of those things that is talked about people having done more often than is actually done.
00:39:10-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink
00:39:23< vasi> clearly :-)
00:48:54-!- kane-xs [n=kane@fia236-131-100.dsl.mxposure.nl] has joined #fink
00:54:00< dmacks> vasi: Any thoughts about my last PkgVersion change?
00:55:37< vasi> yikes...you're modifying a parameter in _expand based on a parameter to get_description!?
00:55:50< vasi> at least set it back after, or make a copy of _expand, no?
00:56:23< dmacks> Wait, did I change the actual _expand and not make a copy? Oh crap...it's a whole struct!
00:56:35< vasi> yah
00:56:43 * dmacks <- idiot
00:57:34< dmacks> I had grand plans to add an override flag to param_expanded, then said "screw the general case, I'll do it quick'n'dirty". Guess it was too dirty:(
00:57:59< vasi> well it might be nice to distinguish between different ways to use %p
00:58:19< dmacks> (There are a coupla tracker items related to this)
00:58:38< vasi> i'm not sure exactly what the different use cases are for this kinda thing
00:59:02< vasi> if you could try to clarify what different ways we want to use different things, i can definitely make the indexer respect that
00:59:43< vasi> (btw, do you have any objection if i make get_options and set_options in Config object methods instead of module functions? it's kinda silly for them to be global if Config isn't
01:00:03< vasi> (i'll try to retain a compatibility-mode for callers that use the old way)
01:00:28< dmacks> The primary alternate (?) case is when fink is installed in some arbitrary location but we want a "standard" result (so DescDetail on the web PDB shows /sw instead of the path to fink on SF)
01:00:49< dmacks> I hate hate hate Config
01:00:58< vasi> so where is fink.conf and such, in this case? and do we want it to be able to build things?
01:01:13< vasi> lol, well i'm about to do some hacking on Config so tell me what you want changed :-)
01:01:54< dmacks> fink itself is self-consistent...there's the usual /some/wacky/path/{etc/fink.conf,dists}
01:02:40< dmacks> But when I $pv->say get_description, I want it to treat %p as /sw
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01:02:55< vasi> just get_description, or are there other cases?
01:03:20< dmacks> I think that's the only one...that's the accessor webPDB and 'fink info' use.
01:03:46< vasi> ok, so then just stick with the quick'n dirty solution you've got now, but change _expand back after
01:04:13< vasi> or make a copy of the hash, my %expand = %{$self->{_expand}};
01:04:19< dmacks> Which is preferable?
01:05:07< vasi> aesthetically i prefer making a copy
01:05:15< vasi> doesn't really matter though
01:05:45< vasi> just make the copy, modify the copy, use the copy in param_expanded
01:05:55< vasi> and then it gets thrown out, and nothing's modified
01:06:00< dmacks> That's not how param_expanded works:)
01:06:20< vasi> i thought it takes an argument for the expansion hash?
01:06:32< dmacks> Nope...it uses _expand. 
01:07:19< vasi> ok, so keep using expand_percent explicitly like your patch already does
01:07:26< vasi> but just pass in a ref to the modified copy
01:07:58< vasi> i don't think we need to get any fancier than that
01:08:05< dmacks> Sounds good to me.
01:09:35< dmacks> Committed.
01:09:50< vasi> so, about Config?
01:10:22< dmacks> I had a grand scheme to consolidate "options" and "param"s and defaults into a single namespace.
01:10:59< runelind> still
01:10:59< runelind> no
01:11:00< runelind> koffice
01:11:03< runelind> *thwump
01:11:05< runelind> *
01:11:47< vasi> well there *is* a difference between params and options...params are saved into fink.conf, options aren't
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01:12:37< dmacks> Purely semantic though. Some options override some params. Sometimes we want to override an option (or param) with a caller-specified value.
01:13:07< vasi> hmm, we can't really make Config totally object-oriented cuz too much depends on 'use Fink::Config qw($basepath);'
01:13:09< dmacks> If they're distinct namespaces, why do we use different names for corresponding tokens.
01:14:17< dmacks> It seems silly to have to set values (from cmdline or caller-local) then check both namespaces when we want to know what value is in effect.
01:14:34< vasi> do we really check both namespaces?
01:14:40< dmacks> Sure!
01:14:54< dmacks> We have a whole complex accessor just to handle verbosity.
01:15:54< vasi> oh yeah...ugh
01:16:14 * dmacks experimented with a stack thing, where each param is a listref.
01:16:15< vasi> with trees it makes sense to have them separate i guess, since they kinda mean different things
01:16:35< vasi> but not with other things...ugh
01:17:01< dmacks> [0] could be a hardcoded default, [1] is fink.conf, [2] cuold be cmdline, etc.
01:17:21< vasi> maybe we can just make get_option default to the output of param ?
01:17:34< vasi> so an option overrides a param?
01:17:38< dmacks> So param("foo") returns $self->{"foo"}->[-1]
01:18:02< dmacks> Local (temp) values are just push/pull-ish operations.
01:18:37< vasi> hmmm, that makes a fair bit of sense
01:18:37< dmacks> People have requested user-land fink.conf, so now that becomes just another value in the stack.
01:19:35< vasi> given that nothing ever happens if we just talk forever til we find the perfect solution...
01:19:36< dmacks> (obvioously the functions that handle parsing the various prefs could only allow certain fields...don't want to have user override of Distribution:)
01:19:53< vasi> i'm gonna start by trying to object-ify config as much as possible
01:20:02< dmacks> Good.
01:20:04< vasi> which gives us more freedom to screw with the underlying way it works
01:21:41< vasi> basically, i'm going to have get/set_options use $self if $_[0] is a ref to Config...otherwise, assume it's an old-style call and use a global default Config object
01:22:51< vasi> not sure exactly what to do about the globals...i guess just try to sync them with the current default Config object
01:23:35< vasi> and write methods so you can access them in a better way
01:24:30< dmacks> Maybe the $config object could have a _options hash?
01:24:53< vasi> yeah, that's the intention :-)
01:27:03< dmacks> Ah found it... exp/dmacks/perlmod/Fink/Base_stack.pl
01:28:58< vasi> eeek, a lot of magic :-)
01:29:04< dmacks> Yeah.
01:29:56< vasi> !seen TheSin
01:29:56< Melian> thesin <~TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 33d 13h 17m 14s ago, saying: 'talk about a good day to com back, might get the TV to keep :D'.
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01:30:05< vasi> hmmmph
01:30:12< dmacks> (he's been here more recently than that)
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01:30:14< vasi> we've gotta figure out what to do with Shlibs
01:30:20< dmacks> Shoot it in the head?
01:30:25< dmacks> Or shoot it out of HEAD?
01:30:32< cirdan> hey vasi 
01:30:34< vasi> might have to :-(
01:30:39< vasi> cirdan, fixed up your branch?
01:30:39< cirdan> my branch works fine now
01:30:41< vasi> cool
01:30:42< cirdan> yeah
01:30:44< vasi> i'll check it out
01:30:48< cirdan> one word needed changing
01:30:52< vasi> hehe
01:31:10< cirdan> cause i made osx/darwin versions much easier to find out
01:31:19< cirdan> that's the main part of the branch, really...
01:31:30< cirdan> the smaller part is the dist-up call ;-)
01:31:32< vasi> Shlibs is useful and all....but it currently causes breakage, and half the code in Shlibs is incomprehensible to anybody but TheSin
01:31:40< dmacks> Ayup.
01:31:48< cirdan> vasi: sounds like most of fink's code :-)
01:32:02< vasi> cirdan, you clearly have never tried to read TheSin's code :-P
01:32:15< dmacks> Nah, TheSin doesn't understand much of the more recent parts of fink's core:)
01:32:16< cirdan> can't be worse than real_install...
01:32:21< vasi> there's obscure, and there's obscene
01:32:33< vasi> hey, i cleaned up a lot of real_install a couple weeks back
01:32:37< cirdan> heh
01:32:44< cirdan> not when i was looking at it
01:32:54< cirdan> my eyes still hurt thinking about it
01:33:04< vasi> all the part about choosing between packages is modularized into functions now
01:33:30 * dmacks keeps meaning to swap plasmids HEAD <=> bdo-depends
01:33:40< cirdan> ok, sleep
01:33:44< vasi> nite cirdan
01:33:44< cirdan> must awake in 4 hrs
01:34:10< vasi> ack
01:34:52 * dmacks off to pack.
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02:36:53< elfurbe> I've got a bit of a conundrum.  I see here: http://fink.sourceforge.net/pdb/package.php/ncftp that there is an ncftp package for fink.  But if I pop open terminal and type "fink install ncftp" I get an error.  what gives there?
02:38:52< elfurbe> anyone?
02:42:00< elfurbe> oh.  it's only in unstable.  now I'm back with it.
02:42:09< elfurbe> thanks for all the help
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03:31:21< slapaho> hey guys
03:31:33< slapaho> i just installed fink/fink commander, now im trying to "fink install imagemagick"
03:31:35< slapaho> and it's not working
03:31:38< slapaho> a dependency is failing
03:31:44< slapaho> can anyone help please?
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03:47:25< dmacks> slapaho: Please tell us the exact and complete error message. Otherwise there's no way for us to know which dependency is failing or why:)
03:47:28< dmacks> !lisppaste
03:47:30< Melian> You can use lisppaste to paste errors at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink , instead of flooding the channel.
03:47:37< slapaho> ok...
03:48:54< slapaho> Failed: Can't resolve dependency "x11" for package "imagemagick-5.5.1-23" (no matching package/versions found)
03:48:58< slapaho> that's what it' says
03:49:06< dmacks> Did you install x11?
03:52:27< dmacks> x11 is supplied by your choice of several differnt packages, including some that you install manually (not through fink). None of the fink ones are available in your configuration, and obviously fink can't be much help dealing with things outside of fink.
03:53:43< dmacks> See http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/x11 chapter 3
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04:02:25< slapaho> i just upgraded to xcode 2.1 or w/e
04:02:36< slapaho> got gcc 4 on there now
04:02:47< slapaho> did source=> selfupdate
04:02:49< slapaho> and that all ran
04:03:20< slapaho> i need to get my damn package database updated
04:03:28< slapaho> this system doesn tseem as good as freebsd ports
04:03:37< slapaho> ports would just install x11 if imagemagick needed it
04:03:53< dmacks> Feel free to go away and use freebsd ports.
04:04:29< slapaho> fucking low self esteem computer geeks can't take opinions
04:04:36< dmacks> Fink would just install it too if you configured fink to do so.
04:04:36< slapaho> dont cry, bitch
04:05:27< dmacks> The fink instructions are covered with information about how to install x11.
04:05:44< slapaho> i cant even update my package database
04:05:59< slapaho> what an unintuitive piece of shit
04:06:41< dmacks> If you'd like to make *consrtuctive* suggestions, we'd love to hear them. If you'd like to ask questions that aren't covered at length in the docs, we'd love to help.
04:07:08< slapaho> well i went through the docs
04:07:31< slapaho> tools=>interact with fink was grayed out
04:07:33< slapaho> i couldnt even do step 2
04:07:35< slapaho> and step 1 ran fine
04:07:49 * dmacks hasn't used FinkCommander in years.
04:08:01< dmacks> Did you install Apple's X11User.pkg?
04:08:48< slapaho> i have x11SDK.pkg
04:08:55< dmacks> That's not the same thing.
04:09:10< slapaho> where do i get x11User.pkg from?
04:09:23< dmacks> Your Tiger install disk. Not XCode.
04:09:29< slapaho> aww fuck
04:10:08< dmacks> Feel free to tell Apple how you feel about their making it so easy to get an incomplete and useless x11 installation.
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06:12:28-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis
06:12:28-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005]
06:12:28[Users #fink]
06:12:28[ Airo      ] [ eno-away   ] [ gzl         ] [ lisppaste  ] [ newmanbe  ] [ sid77_  ] 
06:12:28[ armenb    ] [ Erik____   ] [ htodd       ] [ mcp        ] [ notFeanor ] [ swix_   ] 
06:12:28[ BleedAway ] [ gecko2     ] [ jack-       ] [ mdmonk-away] [ pnorman   ] [ usataway] 
06:12:28[ brendan   ] [ gopherd    ] [ JosephSpiros] [ mee_bot    ] [ pogma     ] [ zorton  ] 
06:12:28[ cianhughes] [ gopherd_   ] [ jtyler_     ] [ Melian     ] [ RangerAway] 
06:12:28[ cirdan    ] [ gopherd_1  ] [ kane-xs     ] [ msachs     ] [ RLD_osx   ] 
06:12:28[ Clef      ] [ gopherd__  ] [ kito        ] [ muesli     ] [ runelind  ] 
06:12:28[ cmeme     ] [ grub_booter] [ KraMer      ] [ Murrito    ] [ shreyas_  ] 
06:12:28-!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 44 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 44 normal]
06:12:32-!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug  3 17:57:20 2003
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07:20:26< RangerAway> man, that guy was an ass
07:21:13< newmanbe> slapaho?
07:23:32< RangerAway> yeah  :)
07:24:29< RangerAway> yay, got a patch for monodevelop
07:24:35< RangerAway> so it'll build against the new boo
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07:26:32< newmanbe> Hmm, it doesn't work to print the source for a LaTeX docuement...
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08:11:49 * zizban cancels one appointment for the day
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08:17:04< pogma> drm!
08:17:16< cirdan> pogma!
08:17:17< cirdan> drm!
08:17:58< zizban> cirdan! pogma! drm!
08:18:22< pogma> heh, this isn't #opendarwin, sorry :)
08:18:30< pogma> Hi cirdan, zizban 
08:18:46< cirdan> xar?
08:18:46< zizban> what? you don't like #fink anymore?
08:18:49< pogma> cirdan: I tried dmalloc at those emails you pasted yesterday
08:18:59< cirdan> so did i
08:19:05< cirdan> they all were forwarded to the same place
08:19:29< cirdan> i think i have his phone# somewhere...
08:19:29< pogma> zizban: No, nt that, the greeting in #opendarwin is "<nick>!"
08:19:48< cirdan> from the nonprofit...
08:19:48< pogma> cirdan: Cool!
08:19:54< zizban> ahhh
08:20:02< cirdan> not sure...
08:20:13 * cirdan wonders if he has the scanned docs still
08:20:27< cirdan> yay
08:20:48< cirdan> ./foo/Fink_legal_docs 2004.08.23.tar.bz2.gpg
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08:25:40< cirdan> crap
08:25:40< cirdan> no in there
08:27:02< cirdan> we need to start doing something with this nonprofit...
08:27:31< cirdan> cause right now is' costing $25/month just to have a bank account
08:29:49< zizban> let's party!
08:34:02-!- RangerAway is now known as RangerRick
08:36:31< drm> cirdan!
08:36:47 * RangerRick joins the janet reno dance party
08:37:08< zizban> heh
08:37:33< drm> RangerRick: was that Scottish in the commit msg this morning?
08:37:38< drm> "nwe boo"
08:37:38< RangerRick> nwe boo?
08:37:40< RangerRick> haha
08:37:43< RangerRick> new boo!
08:38:14< cirdan> drm, i fixed the bad line in my branch, it works again :-)
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08:38:58< drm> cirdan: good... i was actually looking for you to ask about gcdmaster
08:39:19< pogma> so, no contact for dmalloc? :(
08:39:29< pogma> bbraun will want to know what to do
08:39:31< drm> its based on cddrdao code, cirdan, and both packages are rather out of date compared with upstream
08:39:36 * cirdan does have his address somewhere...
08:39:51< cirdan> cdrdao is old?
08:39:59< cirdan> eh
08:40:02< cirdan> i'll look later then :-)
08:40:18< Gavrila> what's the difference between tiger provided version of vim and fink's one?
08:40:56< cirdan> fink's has an x11 version
08:41:01< cirdan> maybe newer
08:41:06< Gavrila> cirdan, what If I don't want the X11 one?
08:41:20< Gavrila> I mean I want the classic vim
08:41:52< cirdan> fink install vim
08:42:13< pogma> or /usr/bin/vim ?
08:42:13< drm> cirdan: fink uses cdrdao 1.1.7 from October 2002... latest is 1.2.0 from May 2005
08:43:16< cirdan> pogma: hmm, i also have mail from david@frosted.net
08:43:17< drm> cirdan: gcdmaster is one of my stoppers for the 10.4 upgrade
08:43:18 * cirdan really wishes he didn't loose all his inbox from 2002 -> this spring
08:43:29< cirdan> ok drm
08:43:29< zizban> ouch
08:43:44< cirdan> i'll get to it today
08:43:59< drm> pogma: dmacks sent a friendly message to his uptime.at email yesterday... i dunno if he got an answer
08:43:59< cirdan> drm, you see my mail about the bug tracker?
08:43:59< mcp> RangerRick: kdepim works fine for me now.
08:44:06< drm> cirdan: sure did... haven't had time to look, but almost anything is better than the SF one :)
08:44:08< pogma> drm: I have sent a number of friently messages
08:44:09< Gavrila> I can't install vim, it says it's abroken package
08:44:45< cirdan> drm it would prolly be good if we made a web frontend to it...
08:44:45< pogma> to a number of email addresses :(
08:45:06< cirdan> but reportbug is pretty nice
08:45:30< cirdan> we just need a python person to work on it a litttle
08:45:30< RangerRick> mcp: awesome
08:46:44< drm> pogma: :(
08:46:47 * cirdan just tried a new different email address
08:49:24< Gavrila> how ca n I open a .deb package in tiger?
08:49:39< Gavrila> open I mean unpack
08:49:39< cirdan> dpkg
08:49:46< Gavrila> cirdan ok tnx
08:49:51< cirdan> dpkg -x foo.deb extracts it
08:49:53< cirdan> -i installs
08:50:47< drm> needs sudo in front of the dpkg command
08:50:53< Gavrila> tnx
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08:51:33< RangerRick> or ar x foo.deb  ;)
08:52:49< cirdan> then tar -xzf data.tar.gc
08:52:52< cirdan> gz
08:53:03< cirdan> ;-p
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08:59:32< Snaggle> what's a good way to set up an upgrade path from an OpenSSL (with non-ssl variant) to one that uses system-openssl?  Should I just have it conflict/replace with the previous -ssl package?
09:00:52< zizban> I did that. conflicted/replaced the old ssl
09:01:02< RangerRick> depends on the package
09:01:10< zizban> but it does depend
09:01:11< RangerRick> do you currently have an ssl and non-ssl version of the same package?
09:01:28< RangerRick> if so, you'll have to do the -unified trick or something similar because of conflicts, most likely
09:01:37< RangerRick> if not, changing it and conflict/replacing is just fine
09:01:45< RangerRick> reminds me, I have to write up some stuff on the wiki about this
09:01:56< RangerRick> if you don't mind hanging on for a half hour or so, I'll write it up there so it's documented  :)
09:02:06< Snaggle> yes.  have foo and foo-ssl, wanted to have just foo at the end of the day
09:02:20< RangerRick> do current versions of foo conflict foo-ssl?
09:02:24< RangerRick> and vice-versa?
09:02:57< RangerRick> if so, you can't just get rid of foo-ssl and have foo replace it, there will be upgrade issues
09:03:15< Snaggle> yes, they each conflict/replace each other
09:04:35< Snaggle> even better is that the package is dependent on a library that also exists as non-ssl and -ssl, which would also have to undergo the same treatment
09:06:13< RangerRick> the first thing to do is to update that dependent library, if you can
09:06:38< Gavrila> what's the best editor in osx for programming?
09:06:59< cirdan> vim
09:07:05< cirdan> or XCode
09:07:15< Gavrila> XCode is it good really?
09:07:17< Snaggle> rangerrick: does it matter if the library links to system-ssl while the program links to it and to fink-ssl?
09:07:34< cirdan> well, if you're using xcode to build...
09:07:35< Gavrila> cirdan, where woulkd you get a good configuration for vim on osx?
09:07:40< Gavrila> cirdan, no
09:07:40< RangerRick> Snaggle: that I'm not sure
09:07:56< Snaggle> i guess i can try :)  they build fairly quickly
09:08:10 * Snaggle slaps the stoopid openssl license.
09:08:14< Gavrila> does XCode support other languages other than C/C++?
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09:09:31< RangerRick> anyone know what's up with the section: stuff in the wiki?
09:09:42< RangerRick> is there a reason to do it that way, other than making it look funny?  :)
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09:13:58< Gavrila> did anyone answered me before? I just clicked the wrong button
09:15:28< Snaggle> gavrila: nope
09:16:19< Snaggle> last question before I go work: can it finally be clarified in the SSL wiki section what happens if a GPL package has an explicit clause saying it can link to OpenSSL source?  When i asked last month, the decision seemed to be that it was unknown if openssl needed to reciprocate in order for that to be allowed license-wise
09:22:36< RangerRick> Snaggle: that's something we'll have to get answered by someone more in the know, but I'll update the wiki to have a TODO  :)
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09:46:32< cirdan> whee.
09:49:17 * RangerRick holds his hands up in the air
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10:13:42-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis
10:13:42-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005]
10:13:42[Users #fink]
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10:13:42[ chris01   ] [ gecko2  ] [ jtyler_     ] [ Melian     ] [ RangerRick] 
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10:13:43-!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug  3 17:57:20 2003
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10:20:52< RangerRick> hm, snaggle's gone
10:21:40< RangerRick> oh well, any comments on http://wiki.opendarwin.org/index.php/Fink:Policy:system-openssl ?
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10:39:02< chris01> RangerRick: it looks and reads nicely. Thanks!
10:39:24< RangerRick> werd
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12:12:13-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis
12:12:13-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005]
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12:21:14< lisppaste> RangerRick pasted "libgettext3 stable to unstable upgrade fails" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11457
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12:38:05< zizban> gettext? ick
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12:56:28-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis
12:56:28-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005]
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12:56:28[ armenb    ] [ eno-away   ] [ htodd       ] [ mdmonk-away] [ pogma     ] [ vasi    ] 
12:56:28[ asari     ] [ Erik____   ] [ jack-       ] [ mee_bot    ] [ RangerRick] [ zizban  ] 
12:56:28[ BleedAway ] [ Fang       ] [ JosephSpiros] [ Melian     ] [ regeya    ] [ zorton  ] 
12:56:28[ brendan   ] [ gecko2     ] [ jtyler_     ] [ msachs     ] [ RLD_osx   ] 
12:56:28[ chris01   ] [ gopherd    ] [ kane-xs     ] [ muesli     ] [ runelind  ] 
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12:56:32-!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug  3 17:57:20 2003
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13:03:58< akh> ugh--paste.lisp.org is slow.
13:04:12< RangerRick> networks' been pretty fuxored today
13:05:25< akh> I bleme MIT ;-)
13:06:26< akh> I think my Mac at work (I'm at home) went to sleep last night during a build.
13:06:51< akh> Although...we did get a new IT person.
13:07:27 * akh will tear somebody a new one if they decided to shut down my analysis machine for some bureaucratic reason.
13:08:31< akh> The gettext thing doesn't look any uglier than other case where a file has migrated between splitoffs, at least.
13:08:48< RangerRick> akh: apparently it's already fixed in his unreleased new gettext
13:09:29< akh> Ah.  I forgot to give feedback on that--got distracted by libiconv.
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13:42:50< RangerRick> whups: http://ranger.befunk.com/gallery/screenshots/aho
13:43:28< akh> That ain't good.
13:43:45< cirdan> heh
13:43:49< cirdan> hey, new itunes/ipods
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14:35:39< asari> wow, many fink users mail us!
14:36:09< RangerRick> we should really get that auto-submit thing working, the debian one
14:36:14< RangerRick> rather than manual e-mails from users
14:36:44< asari> yes, upstream version of popcon (on Debian) can handle HTTP
14:40:20< RangerRick> hah, gnome 2.12 came out today  :P
14:40:32< akh> I'll add a note on the wiki.
14:41:09< akh> At least KDE is pretty current.
14:42:32-!- sid77 [n=sid77@host-84-222-61-190.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #fink
14:42:46< asari> akh, where has wiki  gone?
14:42:56< asari> ldx3.psfc.mit.edu:2500 ?
14:43:34< akh> asari:  We've moved it (and that computer is apparently down, much to my disgust)
14:44:00< akh> http://wiki.opendarwin.org/index.php/Fink
14:44:04-!- msachs [n=msachs@24.34.72.223] has quit []
14:44:19< RangerRick> http://wiki.opendarwin.org/index.php/Fink
14:44:20< asari> Thanks
14:44:30< asari> thanks, two :)
14:44:33< akh> It's even linked on the fink main page now.
14:44:39< akh> (I had to look it up there)
14:44:50< asari> oh, really.
14:45:00< akh> It's in the Resources section.
14:46:02 * asari found it
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14:49:32< vasi> hi asari :-)
14:49:42< asari> hi vasi
14:49:52< vasi> thanks for your response
14:50:40< asari> Ah, you are vasi!
14:50:50< asari> didn't know :)
14:50:59< vasi> heh
14:51:12< vasi> have you ever used gnome-app-install on Linux?
14:51:25< asari> nope
14:51:58< vasi> it's a very nice "install more software" program....really designed for users
14:52:06< vasi> (so not at all like FinkCommander :-)
14:52:46< asari> We are also trying to localize FinkCommander, actually
14:53:27< vasi> that's a good step
14:54:13< vasi> anyway, i have to go now...new iTunes installer wants a reboot
14:54:23< cirdan> RangerRick: for libpaper, check how debian does it
14:54:27< vasi> see y'all later
14:54:30 * RangerRick is gonna have to wait hours for itunes to finish upgrading the database  :P
14:54:31< asari> seeya
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14:54:44< cirdan> pretty sure there is a global file and they use debconf for the user to pick a default papersize
14:54:54< cirdan> i can help ya w/debconf...
14:55:01< cirdan> it's a little weird, but not too hard
14:55:08< RangerRick> ah, ok
14:55:10< cirdan> just copy what another package uses
14:55:16< cirdan> fink makes it weird
14:55:18< cirdan> bbiab
14:55:25< RangerRick> or I can set a default and let the user edit it  :)
14:55:29< cirdan> bah
14:55:31< cirdan> debconf!
14:55:36< cirdan> thats why it exists
14:55:39< cirdan> :-)
14:55:57< RangerRick> that's why vim exists  :)
14:56:24< RangerRick> I just hate interactive stuff when 99% of the users will want a4 or letter anyways  :P
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15:01:17< cirdan> RangerRick: the user cna pick to use noninteractive
15:01:18< cirdan> :-p
15:02:04< akh> meh--can't send anything about my system until I go in to Cambridge and reboot the damn thing.
15:02:32< RangerRick> 2but they won't  :)
15:03:05< akh> Make 'em use US letter.
15:03:56< akh> We aren't responsible for those goofy foreign paper sizes.  :-D
15:04:06< akh> (kidding)
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16:08:19< newmanbe> Woot!
16:08:45< newmanbe> gopher://igneous-rock.homeunix.net/0/goto?fink-20050907
16:09:17< newmanbe> Then you replace the channel and the date, and ta'da, less typing.
16:10:03< newmanbe> And if you enter an invalid response, you see how I implemented it...
16:10:35< RangerRick> http://hollowvoice.org/~ranger/irc_logs/  :)
16:10:45< newmanbe> !lart RangerRick for using HTTP.
16:10:45 * Melian says "boot to the head" and knocks RangerRick over for using HTTP.
16:11:00< RangerRick> !lart newmanbe for thinking it's still the 90's
16:11:01 * Melian readies the nuke launcher and fires some rounds at newmanbe for thinking it's still the 90's
16:11:21< newmanbe> But do people send you e-mails thanking you for the service you provide?
16:11:30< RangerRick> sometimes
16:11:53< RangerRick> you probably get gopher nuts thanking you just because you've doubled the size of gopherspace  <g>
16:11:57< newmanbe> I'm sure they are not from famous people with opendarwin.org e-mail addresses. ;)
16:12:07< RangerRick> I've got an opendarwin.org e-mail address :)
16:12:44< newmanbe> E-mailing yourself doesn't count.
16:13:09< RangerRick> does too!
16:25:50 * newmanbe wacks vim.
16:26:10< newmanbe> The permissions have changed! You don't need to report me to myself that I'm not on the sudoers list!
16:35:55< cirdan> yo
16:36:10< newmanbe> Hello.
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16:48:09-!- You're now known as gopherd
16:53:56< runelind> koffice finally finished compiling :D
16:54:04< runelind> so I'm sure RR will release a new version that I'll have to recompile
16:56:13-!- RangerRick is now known as RangerAway
16:56:28< RangerAway> actually it's been pretty solid, haven't gotten any failure reports
16:57:32< newmanbe> That's because you only read e-mail from yourself.
16:58:11< RangerAway> hm, good point
16:58:15< RangerAway> either way, I'm satisfied by the response
17:00:24-!- alejo [n=tanks@84-72-231-240.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit []
17:00:27< runelind> I've been emailing back and forth with some guy named charlie root for a while
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18:23:08< akh> no Mac access makes akh something something...
18:43:14-!- zizban [n=zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
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19:00:10< akh> Heh:  "I can not stress that too much. You need to reboot soon."
19:00:28< akh> (kernel update)
19:01:16-!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #fink
19:01:19< vasi> cute
19:01:30< akh> Those zany Debian folks.
19:02:04< zizban> heh
19:03:05< akh> cool--only 27 packages would get removed by a dist-upgrade (down from 34)
19:04:07-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink
19:04:33< dmacks> Who killt the wiki?
19:04:41< akh> The old wiki?
19:04:52< dmacks> Naw, the new one.
19:05:08< akh> ??  It worked a few hours ago.
19:05:52< dmacks> Well thanks for killing off mysqld when you finished then.
19:05:56< vasi> hmm, silly mysql
19:07:26< akh> Wasn't me--I just did a non-editing drive-by.  ;-)
19:07:35< dmacks> Riiiight
19:08:01< akh> And my box is down, so the old wiki isn't available either.
19:08:25 * akh suspects an anti-wiki conspiracy is afoot.
19:08:55< dmacks> Or maybe that's just what They *want* you to think.
19:09:10< akh> Hmmm
19:09:14< dmacks> ...a conspiracy to make you think there's a conspiracy.
19:09:28 * akh goes downstairs to start making a hat out of Reynolds wrap.
19:09:32< akh> ;-)
19:09:56< zizban> heh
19:09:58< zizban> :)
19:12:22< dmacks> Is there any reason we have a libhowl package, whose sole contents are Depends:libhowl-{dev,bin,shlibs} ?
19:12:54< zizban> recursive depends?
19:12:58< akh> Flagrant misunderstanding of the packaging policy?
19:13:30< akh> Maybe it was for upgrade purposes...
19:13:38< dmacks> Hmm, that could be.
19:14:28< dmacks> Nothing in 10.{3,4T} uses it, so maybe oughta nuke libhowl and have the -dev Provides it?
19:14:50< akh> If the maintainer's AWOL, go for it.
19:15:06 * akh browsed the commits archives...
19:15:22-!- slapaho [n=username@pool-71-113-50-90.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit []
19:15:37 * dmacks did a minor fix, then a major overhaul of it
19:15:51< zizban> nuke it
19:16:10< dmacks> Shuold we wait for dmalloc to fix his pkg?
19:16:14< dmacks> Bwaaaahahahahaha!!
19:16:28< akh> Has he been missing for > 2 weeks?
19:16:38< dmacks> Hells yeah
19:16:58< vasi> think he's ever gonna show up to fix finkmirrors dns?
19:17:12< akh> But come to think of it, 1 month has been the cutoff time.
19:17:20< dmacks> dunno. Maybe he and miga were kidnapped.
19:17:34< akh> Or ran off together or something.
19:17:45< dmacks> Heh
19:19:06< akh> I'm still thinking that it's the whole European summer holiday thing.
19:19:28< dmacks> Well, he gets a reprieve, since I need RangerAway to make some compensating adjustments to distcc.
19:20:09< vasi> some of our european folk are still around
19:20:38< akh> Dunno then.  So are we going to try to leapfrog to GNOME 2.12 ? ;-) 
19:20:50< dmacks> We've already been doing that:)
19:20:55< zizban> what do you mean "we"? :P
19:21:04< akh> The editorial "we" of course.
19:21:12< zizban> heh
19:21:18< dmacks> I mean I've been forcing it on everyone, including those present at the moment.
19:21:22< akh> "we" == "The Fink Project"
19:21:35< akh> dmacks:  Ah.
19:22:48< zizban> maybe we ought to bribe someone to do it?
19:22:58< dmacks> I've been doing highest stable-branch version, regardless of what number that might be (since not all pkgs' version numbers correspond to the GNOME Project as a whole)
19:22:59< vasi> i think we should just declare that we have a completely up to date Gnome 3
19:23:01< akh> zizban:  You buying?
19:23:29< vasi> given that there are no bits of Gnome 3 around...we're technically up to date...right?
19:24:10< akh> vasi:  Yeah--and we could have an empty bundle-gnome3 package that removes all of the other GNOME stuff.
19:24:28< zizban> heh
19:24:34< dmacks> That'd be a hell of a time-saver, especially for user support.
19:24:42< vasi> 'zactly
19:24:51< dmacks> "You don't even need XCode or X11!"
19:24:52< zizban> "fink no longer supports GNOME. Roll your own"
19:25:34< vasi> has jfm talked to anybody about his evolution work?
19:25:41 * dmacks raises hand
19:25:48< akh> "You can't spell Fink deb repository without KDE!"
19:25:57< dmacks> ha!
19:26:08< vasi> bleh
19:26:14< zizban> heh
19:26:43< akh> vasi:  We've got to support the desktop environment that's actually got full maintainership.
19:27:10< zizban> we don't even have xfce4
19:27:11< vasi> no reason not to support both
19:27:15< zizban> not that I'm complaining
19:27:20< vasi> nor E17
19:27:29< akh> zizban:  Package it up!
19:27:55< zizban> ha!
19:27:57< dmacks> Maybe we oughta go with KDE8 also...no reason to have that suite languishing back in the realm of Actual Availability.
19:28:11< zizban> I actually hate xfce4
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19:28:44< vasi> E17 is to Linux as Dashboard is to OS X
19:29:13< vasi> it's a place where ppl can play with stupid GUI ideas without bothering the rest of us
19:29:17< zizban> a useless add on?
19:29:34< dmacks> Say it ain't so, zizban!
19:29:43< zizban> heh
19:30:01< zizban> actually the mount saint helens widget is pretty cool
19:30:20 * akh uses the ZIP code lookup widget fairly often.
19:30:54< vasi> mebbe it's just my old system, but they all seem slow
19:31:18< akh> Couldn't tell you--my systems aren't any too speedy, themselves.
19:32:02< akh> And right now one of them's in Cupertino (unless Apple has regional repair sites), and the other's comatose in my office.
19:32:48< dmacks> Why don't you just leave the broken one in your office and take the other one for something useful? That surely accomplishes the business objective, no?
19:33:58< akh> Both are MIT-owned, so they're both business boxes.
19:34:13< dmacks> Ah
19:34:47< dmacks> Am I likely to find someone in #od to kick the wiki?
19:34:55< akh> Maybe.
19:35:24< vasi> wikicking
19:35:35< akh> WikiKicking
19:37:31< zizban> WikiWacking
19:37:48< dmacks> Heh..."the theory has more holes than a crocheted bathtub"
19:38:13< akh> haha
19:38:20< zizban> heh
19:41:10< vasi> where's that from?
19:42:01< dmacks> Unfortunately, it's a (Utah state) gub'mint person, talking about evolution.
19:42:33< zizban> niiiiice
19:42:35< akh> Op-Ed in USA Today.
19:42:55< dmacks> ya
19:43:20< akh> Now if he was talking about our dependency engine, I'd have to agree.  ;-)
19:43:39< dmacks> :)
19:43:43< zizban> heh
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19:44:30< vasi> ha
19:44:34< vasi> dep engine doesn't have holes
19:44:41< vasi> it *IS* a hole
19:44:51< vasi> with pretty little ribbons to make it look nice :-)
19:44:52< dmacks> Clearly he was not...it's not intelligent, and only barely designed.
19:45:02< akh> he
19:45:06< vasi> hehe
19:46:42< vasi> i've never really understood the whole politicization of teaching evolution in the US
19:47:13< zizban> me either...it defies logic and common sense
19:47:17< dmacks> Maybe they can't untangle all the dependencies?
19:47:26< vasi> half of schools in Quebec used to be run by the catholic church (til 2000 or something)....and *THEY* could teach evolution
19:47:50< akh> Though the current Pope seems to be trying to backtrack on that...
19:47:51< zizban> well, that's Canada
19:48:13< dmacks> Catholics are fine with evo in general. It's some Protestant sects
19:48:15< vasi> yeah, "Benoit" isn't very popular here
19:48:40< vasi> dmacks, er kinda....many catholics still oppose evo even now that the pope says it's ok
19:48:51< vasi> out of tradition or something *shrug*
19:49:03< akh> Those are the ones that still won't eat meat on Fridays, most likely.
19:49:11< zizban> well, maybe die hard Catholics. My priest says creation and evolution are two different things
19:49:45< vasi> well my "early civ" teacher in high school was one of these anti-evo catholics
19:49:54< dmacks> Cathloics seem less bible-literalist.
19:50:03< akh> Yup.
19:50:21< akh> Though if you want to be totally literal, the earth is flat and pi=3.
19:50:24< vasi> i can't really say what catholics are like generally, cuz quebec has a very strange sort of catholicism
19:50:32< vasi> heh
19:50:36< zizban> heh
19:50:37< akh> LIke that strange sort of French?
19:50:49< vasi> not quite THAT strange
19:51:02< dmacks> The exchange rate must make confession "interesting"
19:51:12< zizban> well I recently returned to the Roman Catholic church but I've never encountered the fire and brimstone that the baptists spit
19:52:22< vasi> oooh did i tell you guys about the moonies who tried to enlist me at school? :-)
19:52:34< zizban> moonies?
19:52:38< zizban> what are those?
19:52:40< zizban> OH
19:52:44< vasi> as in Rev Sun Moon
19:52:46< zizban> reverend moonies?
19:52:47< dmacks> You get as far as a stadium wedding?
19:52:48< zizban> I see
19:53:03< vasi> i'm not sure if they're quite the same thing, these ones
19:53:12< vasi> but some kinda weird brainwashed korean baptists
19:53:18< akh> Yeah, those are they.
19:53:19< zizban> aye
19:53:28< vasi> who wander around the halls at school, approaching random folks and trying to "engage" them
19:53:54 * zizban is commitment shy
19:54:02< akh> heh
19:54:07< dmacks> ha
19:54:29< vasi> they're kinda nice, except for the disturbing habit of randomly quoting scripture whenever someone says something that doesn't conform to their worldview
19:55:07< dmacks> In college various groups came around during exam time...walk up to you on the street and ask "do you believe in dreams?" or somesuch, spout some bible, hand you a small tract.
19:55:09< vasi> one of them misquoted something from the original hebrew within earshot of me once....big mistake :-)
19:55:10< akh> Makes it easy--you only require a finite database to deal with everything.
19:55:20< dmacks> Awesome vasi!
19:56:12< zizban> heh
19:56:16< dmacks> We built a book-of-selected-readings monitor stand one year.
19:56:26< akh> nice
19:57:10 * akh runs into people protesting against some-company-or-other's labor practices pretty much every day.
19:57:23< akh> I'd need a lot of flyers to make something useful.
19:57:31< vasi> akh, we've always got at least 25 strikes going on around here...pretty normal
19:58:00< vasi> oooh we had some larouchies last year
19:58:26< vasi> talking about "plucking the chickenhawks" and building a "bridge of peace" across the bering strait
19:58:30< dmacks> In grad school PETA came to campus, chanted and paraded around the...chemistry dept and humanities buildings, but not the medical or animal facilities.
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19:58:43< zizban> missed the mark
19:58:46< vasi> heh
19:58:46< vasi> woops
19:59:08< akh> vasi: Which meaning of "chickenhawk" were they going for?
19:59:30< akh> 1) Warmonger who's never been in combat.
19:59:32< akh> -or-
19:59:43< akh> 2) Pedophile ?
19:59:51< vasi> #1
19:59:55< dmacks> Thinking back, do you picture them talking in a Foghorn Leghorn voice?
19:59:58< akh> Thought so.
20:00:20< vasi> i have no idea why they were here....why does Larouche care about canadians?
20:00:37< vasi> uh....i dunno if i ever talked to them...just saw the signs
20:00:56< dmacks> Maybe he realized nobody in *.us cares about him?
20:01:35< akh> One of the PI's on my project got in a "debate" with a Larouchie.  The latter claimed that fusion energy was being suppressed by the US government.
20:01:57< dmacks> Well *duh*
20:01:58< vasi> there's also this evangelical nut who's picketed in front of mcgill's gate for the past two years
20:02:03< akh> As if we were even close enough for that to be necessary.
20:02:19< akh> vasi:  Preaching the end of Montreal?
20:02:21< vasi> claiming that somebody on the nursing staff at the jewish general hospital tried to rape him
20:02:24< vasi> actually
20:02:34< zizban> fusion is easy, making fusion with a net gain in energy, hard
20:02:42< dmacks> UPenn had an evangelical, ranted about heathens and lewdness, etc etc.
20:02:54< vasi> also claiming that israel is the anti-christ
20:03:01< vasi> (whatever that means)
20:03:03< akh> zizban:  actually, a "controllable net gain" is hard.  Net gain is easy.
20:03:07< akh> *boom*
20:03:10< dmacks> Oops, prolly should've taken his predilection for underage-boys somewhere further from campus.
20:03:26< zizban> heh
20:04:33< akh> Boston's South Station gets some evangelical types that seem to show up after 7PM between the subway and commuter rail stations.
20:04:44< dmacks> Well it is controlled...just the granularity of the control is much less.
20:04:49< zizban> gotta love it
20:05:00< akh> yup (to both)
20:08:20< dmacks> bbl
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20:18:00< vasi> hey, have you guys seen Simbabwe yet?
20:19:08< vasi> http://www.thedailygrind.net/work/software/content.php?id=848_0_10_0_M
20:20:13< zizban> ya
20:20:17< zizban> totally taseless
20:20:23< zizban> tastelessx even
20:24:30< akh> Guess I'd best reboot before my computer complains more.
20:24:42< zizban> have fun
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22:12:10-!- bmaret [n=smaret@pm475-12.dialip.mich.net] has joined #fink
22:12:56< bmaret> hi folks
22:13:21< bmaret> sorry for the non related Fink question
22:13:50< bmaret> but can anybody give me advice for a DSL provider in the US ?
22:32:20-!- drm [n=drm@ip68-108-245-119.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #fink
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22:36:14< drm> evenin
22:37:26< dmacks> alo
22:38:42 * drm waits for error reports about gettext
22:39:01 * dmacks can't provide one because it worked here.
22:39:07< drm> good
22:40:21< dmacks> Does this mean that gettext3->stable is on the horizon?
22:40:33< drm> yeah
22:40:45< drm> gotta move fink-0.24.10 to stable first
22:40:53< drm> and allow some time for testing gettext3
22:40:53< dmacks> Ayup.
22:41:03< drm> (the new one)
22:46:50-!- sn9 [n=danielg4@gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us] has joined #fink
22:58:36< dmacks> Does anyone have a .deb for gtkhtml3-shlibs from unstable?
22:59:02< dmacks> ...and could check 'otool -L' on its .dylib?
23:00:39< drm> shall i build one real quick?
23:01:26< dmacks> That'd rock.
23:01:57< drm> it will be from a 10.4 tree, though... might be different if it uses g++
23:02:14 * dmacks just needs install_name and compatibility_version.
23:02:18< sn9> i'm sure i could do it on 10.3
23:02:56< dmacks> (I'm trying to upgrade the pkg and I want to know if I need to change the Package name)
23:03:17< drm> the following 119 packages will be installed...hmmm...
23:03:21< dmacks> GNOME does some Weird Crap with their lib versioning.
23:03:47< dmacks> Heh. nm then...maybe I'll just diff the configure.in
23:04:42< drm> yeah, libtool version numbers should tell you (although i can never remember how to convert them to the numbers used in the library name)
23:05:19< dmacks> I assume libtool weirdness and gnome weirdness don't cancel each other out?
23:05:54< drm> gnome still uses libtool, right?
23:06:02< dmacks> Ayup.
23:06:10< drm> they may be mis-using it, though
23:06:39-!- bmaret [n=smaret@pm475-12.dialip.mich.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:07:03< dmacks> They seem to treat the whole libtool versioning distinct from package versioning sometimes.
23:08:05< dmacks> So libfoo-4.5.x installs libfoo-4.5.1.dylib compat 1.0.0 (compat resets for each minor-version of the lib)
23:09:21< drm> what does the install_name do?
23:09:42< dmacks> (oops...make that libfoo-4.5.0.dylib)
23:09:50< dmacks> *that* is the install_name
23:11:08< drm> so every time they change one of those, you gotta use a new package name
23:11:13< dmacks> Ayup.
23:11:46< dmacks> Fortunately they don't seem to use compat for anything in many libs (major.minor is a frozen API).
23:12:09< dmacks> So there's extra versioning info that suggests they're doing things they're not, just to make our lives crazy.
23:12:34< drm> they're basically trying to use pkgconfig to replace libtool versioning, i guess
23:12:41< dmacks> Yeah.
23:13:04< dmacks> the .la and .pc and least-versioned .dylib all contain major.minor in their name.
23:14:36< dmacks> ...which means our packages libfoo1.2.x-dev and libfoo1.3.x-dev don't conflicts/replaces each other. So if they really do never use libtool versioning our whole -dev splitoff and shared-library policy isn't needed:)
23:15:07< drm> right
23:15:53< drm> but it means cluttering your makefiles with -lfoo3.4 and crap like that
23:16:00< drm> which has to be changed everytime you update
23:16:36< drm> (i mean, if you're an upstream maintainer, that is)
23:17:06< dmacks> Well, you just use pkgconfig. The only place you specify the major.minor you want to link against is in your configure.
23:19:00< pogma> that's the gnome idea, and it works fine
23:19:31< pogma> some devs screw up though and have dup files in different lib versions
23:19:35< dmacks> Yup. I just wish they wouldn't then clutter up the namespace with additional libtoolage.
23:19:52< drm> there's a certain irony, though: consistently using their system shifts labor from packagers to upstream maintainers, but in fink, we have to do more work to get their system to work with our system :/
23:20:05< dmacks> yah
23:20:56< drm> but IBD (or some alternative) together with Shlibs.pm should solve this
23:22:42< dmacks> The constantly changing (?) package names means hidden dependencies aren't as much of a problem (thanks cairo:(
23:23:16-!- vasi [n=vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink
23:23:32< drm> evenin
23:29:25< pogma> hmm, UPS alarm beeped, but there seems to be power, how odd
23:30:17< drm> mine beeps daily
23:30:24< dmacks> We had one decide to do that during a staff meeting few weeks ago. People couldn't figure out why "unplugging the box that is beeping" didn't shut it up.
23:30:41< sn9> rofl
23:31:09< drm> i am told that the voltage in my office fluctuates rather dramatically
23:33:07< dmacks> Woohoo! First spam attempt on fink-auto-logs
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23:37:57< drm> dmacks: i'm getting "execution of patch failed" on gconf2
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--- Log closed Thu Sep 08 00:00:03 2005

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