--- Log opened Mon Aug 29 00:00:01 2005
00:00:57< runelind> jack-: yeah I got it working
00:01:03< runelind> copy and paste ++
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03:37:00< vasi> !logs
03:37:00< Melian> logs are at http://meme.b9.com/cview.html?channel=fink&date=today or http://fink.aquaflux.org (currently down), or http://hollowvoice.org/~ranger/irc_logs/, or gopher://newmanbe.homeunix.net/1/irclogs/freenode/fink
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06:33:52-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis
06:33:52-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005]
06:33:52[Users #fink]
06:33:52[ Erik____] [ gopherd] [ Melian] [ pogma] [ regeya_] [ vasi] 
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06:44:53< newmanbe> Ha! So gopherd isn't so bad after all if cmeme get's disconnected sometimes too. ;)
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06:54:08< vasi> hi chris01
06:54:42< chris01> hi vasi
06:55:01< chris01> you have been busy with fink lately?
06:55:09< vasi> yep :-)
06:55:38< vasi> i just assigned a bug to you...i think you were the one who did the UseBinaryDist stuff, right?
06:56:16< chris01> I saw it.
06:56:40< chris01> Well, it was not me alone... I was just pushing it.
06:56:59< vasi> ah...well do you have an opinion on the topic of the bug?
06:57:19< vasi> (i can always reassign to dmacks since he isn't here to object ;-)
06:57:49< gopherd> On behalf on dmacks, 'I don't want it'.
06:57:56< gopherd> s/on/of/
06:58:45< vasi> :-)
06:58:51< gopherd>  /msg MemoServ dmacks You owe me one.
07:01:14 * vasi passes the bug to gopherd
07:01:35< chris01> vasi: I think it would be better if find_debfile would find the deb.
07:01:40< chris01> since it is there.
07:02:32< vasi> ok...do you see any problem with using 'apt-get --print-uris --ignore-breakage install $package' to get the deb's location?
07:02:39< Darien> well, gnome sucks
07:02:50< newmanbe> Darien: Hmm?
07:02:59< Darien> I installed GNOME, but it's completely broken
07:03:02< Darien> no panel defaults
07:03:19< Darien> when I double-click on 'Computer' it tells me there's no handler for it
07:03:20< newmanbe> Completely broken?
07:03:22< Darien> I can't run the control panel
07:03:29< Darien> there are no applications in the menu
07:03:45< newmanbe> Maybe *your* setup is broken for some reason.
07:04:14< Darien> well I don't know why *my* setup would be broken, I just installed it using fink install gnome-bundle
07:04:36< newmanbe> Permissions issues is one thing that comes to mind.
07:04:56< Darien> I fixed my permissions quite a while ago when I was trying to get KDE to antialias text
07:05:42< Darien> I wiped all my conf files for GNOME and GTK to no avail
07:06:01< vasi> the menus are known to be broken (i think)
07:06:13< Darien> menus I can deal with
07:06:23< vasi> i think dmacks was working on it
07:06:26< Darien> but not being able to run preferences or open folders or files is kind of unusable
07:06:33< vasi> if you can help debug all these issues that would be great :-)
07:06:41< Darien> if I knew how, I would
07:06:58< vasi> well check your Console.log for one thing
07:07:03< vasi> it might say something useful
07:07:13< vasi> if you know C at all, you can try looking at the code
07:09:09< vasi> you can try the Gentoo or Darwinports versions too, to see if there's any differences...that can help us narrow down the issues
07:09:11< vasi> (pkgsrc too)
07:09:18< vasi> if all the packaging systems have the same problem, then file a bug on bugs.gnome.org since it's their problem
07:09:28< Darien> hah
07:09:39< Darien> (gnome-file-types-properties:23582): libgnomevfs-WARNING **: Deprecated function.  User modifications to the MIME database are no longer supported.
07:09:52< Darien> I get that when I try to assign a handler to folders
07:10:10< Darien> but only at the console, not in GNOME
07:10:33< newmanbe> Darien: It might be best to ask your questions on the mailing list. This is generally a low activity time for #fink .
07:10:39< Darien> yeh
07:10:39< newmanbe> !mailinglists
07:10:53< Darien> I'll have to come back to that, it's time to get ready for work
07:10:59< newmanbe> Be sure to check the archives first. ;)
07:11:03< chris01> vasi: I think print-uris should be ok. However, i am vaguely remembering that we used it once in fink, but can't find it anymore. And i can't remember why it should have been removed.
07:11:07< newmanbe> No Melian...
07:11:09< vasi> if you're very very polite, you can try asking the guys on irc.gnome.org to help you debug
07:11:29< vasi> chris01, i saw that stuff in the patch-tracker item...i don't know either why it was removed
07:11:38< Darien> heh, I don't like the sound of that
07:11:50< vasi> i guess it made things more complicated than letting apt do things itself?
07:12:03< chris01> vasi: ah, yes... that would make sense
07:12:17< vasi> but if we're just using it for checking, then i think we'll be ok...
07:12:18< newmanbe> Complications lead to not working, not working lead to good!
07:12:25< newmanbe> For DarwinPorts anyway. Hehe.
07:12:39< vasi> ie: capture the path, check if it's a file-path (starts with /)
07:12:47< vasi> and if it is, check if the .deb is really there
07:13:00< vasi> we don't have to do the download/verify/etc games, since it's already on the system
07:13:45 * newmanbe runs a program that randomly changes things on a hard drive.
07:16:38< chris01> vasi: makes sense
07:16:54< vasi> i'll try implementing it at some point...
07:17:17< vasi> (one of these years we'll actually get 0.25 released even :-)
07:17:31< chris01> wow!
07:17:55< chris01> What about moving 0.24.10 to stable? 
07:18:17< Darien> anyone know if darwinports has kde3.4 in binary?
07:18:23< Darien> or GNOME2.6
07:18:46< Darien> crap, gotta go, thanks for the help so far guys
07:18:48< Darien> will be back later
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07:19:10< vasi> chris01, uh we're planning on doing that soon
07:19:33< vasi> where soon is an undefined value
07:19:52< vasi> i think fink needs a project manager :-)
07:28:43< snu> are you volunteering?
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07:46:13< vasi> snu, too busy hacking
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07:59:58< sid77> re
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08:23:22-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis
08:23:22-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005]
08:23:22[Users #fink]
08:23:22[ armenb   ] [ Gavrila] [ kane-xs   ] [ Ksilebo] [ pnorman   ] [ usata ] 
08:23:22[ BleedAway] [ gecko2 ] [ kbroderick] [ mcp    ] [ pogma     ] [ vasi  ] 
08:23:22[ Clef     ] [ gopherd] [ kito      ] [ mdmonk ] [ RangerRick] [ zorton] 
08:23:22[ eno-away ] [ gzl    ] [ knghtbrd  ] [ mee_bot] [ runelind  ] 
08:23:22[ Erik____ ] [ jack-  ] [ KraMer    ] [ muesli ] [ swix_     ] 
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08:23:23-!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug  3 17:57:20 2003
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08:34:04< chris01> has anybody here experiences with finks openldap package?
08:34:38< chris01> I am having troubles updating it to 2.2.26
08:34:51< chris01> and using apples openssl at the same time.
08:35:36< RangerRick> I seem to recall it being really tricky to package
08:35:54< RangerRick> trying to make a non-/crypto version?
08:37:10< chris01> RangerRick: indeed
08:37:33< RangerRick> cool
08:37:41< chris01> RangerRick: do you feel like helping me?
08:37:55< chris01> I could send you what i have so far.
08:38:18< pogma> experimental!
08:38:21< RangerRick> I'll be pretty busy today, just trying to catch up (moved this weekend)
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08:38:47< chris01> pogma: ?
08:38:57< chris01> RangerRick: ok, I keep on trying. 
08:39:04< RangerRick> chris01: check it into experimental, then anyone can look at it  :)
08:39:47< chris01> ah... stupid me.... sure, i will do.
08:39:53 * pogma promises to use suggestions longer than one word in the future, sorry chris01 
08:39:57< sid77> fink keeps swapping in and out gettext-dev/libgettext-dev, is it ok?
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08:40:06< pogma> yes
08:40:18< sid77> k
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09:29:34< auslander> plis could someone help understand this:
09:30:14< auslander> fink needs help picking an alternative to satisfy a virtual dependency. The candidates:
09:30:27< auslander> (1)	 xfree86: Free X11 implementation for Darwin and Mac OS X
09:30:27< auslander> (2)	 xorg: Free X11 implementation for Darwin and Mac OS X
09:31:59< chris01> auslander: check the fink FAQ
09:31:59< chris01> e.g. at:
09:32:11< auslander> chris01 but i have the X11 installed
09:32:31< auslander> so i dont want to end up with xfree or xorg
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09:32:42< chris01> http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-general.php?phpLang=en#x-options or http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-packages.php?phpLang=en#apple-x11-wants-xfree86
09:34:17< auslander> thanks a lot chris01, i hope to finally undestand why that message pops
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09:52:00< chris01> RangerRick, pogma: the openldap package built against the system openssl!
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09:52:23< chris01> I will check it into my experimental tree. Could you have a look at it?
09:53:08< RangerRick> woot
09:53:09< RangerRick> sure
09:53:13< RangerRick> I'll test-build
09:54:00< chris01> RangerRick: thanks a lot. They should be there now
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10:02:29< RangerRick> building irght now
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10:18:31< cirdan> hey snu 
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10:24:39< lisppaste> RangerRick pasted "WTF?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11212
10:30:01< chris01> mhm... apr doesn't seem to like my updated openldap package:
10:30:20< chris01> ld: Undefined symbols: _ldap_flush_cache
10:30:26< chris01> during configure
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10:57:52< chris01> RangerRick: how did your openldap build go?
11:04:38< mcp> anyone an idea why when I start kde with startkde in my .xinitrc file every single character is a square instead of a letter?!
11:04:55< mcp> kde 3.4.2 with apple X11 from Tiger 10.4.2
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11:19:54< dwt> HI there! Anybody here?
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11:21:25< chris01> dwt: nope
11:21:31< dwt> :)
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11:22:32< dwt> I've got a problem linking a linux app on os x
11:22:43< drm> what's the problem?
11:22:49< dwt> http://paste.lisp.org/display/11186
11:23:06< dwt> Theres libGL in /usr/X11R6
11:23:15< dwt> and another one in the OpenGLl.framework
11:23:34< drm> that was a warning, not an error
11:24:14< dwt> Maybe I don't get this, but doesn't this preven the app from running?
11:24:22< drm> the -twolevel_namespace thing in darwin lets the linker handle multiple definitions
11:24:55< snu> <3 dyld
11:25:04< drm> essentially, when multiple libs are linked in which define the same symbols, the linker keeps track of the originating lib as well as the symbol name
11:25:07< dwt> it should - but it should also be on by default, right
11:25:08< dwt> ?
11:25:30< drm> dwt: there is a -twolevel_namespace flag in your link line, so everything should be cool
11:26:16< dwt> hm - you are right, it actually did produce output
11:26:56< dwt> however I am not able to start it - first it warns about missing outorelease pools (thats probably the cocoa OpenGL wrapper)
11:27:13< dwt> and then it dies with a 2005-08-29 18:25:25.124 foobillard[11414] *** Uncaught exception: <NSInternalInconsistencyException> Error (1002) creating CGSWindow
11:27:13< dwt> Trace/BPT trap
11:27:50< drm> you know about the crash logs in /Library/Logs/CrashReporter? they may give a clue
11:28:15< dwt> looking there
11:28:33< dwt> Strange... nothing there.
11:28:47< drm> maybe because it died with Trace/BPT trap
11:29:31< drm> well, you are getting an Apple error (NextStep, actually :)... sounds like your linux program is making assumptions about windowing which are not valid here, perhaps?
11:29:59< dwt> I guess so
11:30:10< dwt> I would like to run it with the X11 based opengl implementation
11:30:28< dwt> Would I do that with somethign like LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
11:30:38< drm> not really
11:31:15< drm> on OS X, we use DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH, but we use it much less frequently because our libraries record the path names of things they are calling, not just the names
11:31:29< drm> and setting DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH can mess things up royally :)
11:31:40< dwt> Uh oh...
11:31:58< drm> if you hafta, use DYLD_FALLBACK_LIBRARY_PATH
11:32:17< lisppaste> dwt annotated #11186 with "crashlog" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11186#1
11:32:42< dwt> Hm, if I want to substitute one sdl implementation for the other, how do I go about it?
11:33:13< dwt> Simply adding those libs to DYLD_FALLBACK_LIBRARY_PATH?
11:33:25< drm> no
11:33:49< drm> is that an Apple implmenetation of SDL that got linked in?
11:34:06< dwt> As far as I can see from the crash log it did
11:34:20< mcp> re
11:34:21< drm> you might try using Fink's sdl
11:34:31< rudy_> hello evil professor drm
11:34:46< drm> since Fink libs are ahead of system libs in the library search path, it will find those first
11:34:50< drm> hi rudy_
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11:35:12< chris01> RangerRick: still here? I updated the openldap package in my exp dir. I also added a apr package to build against that. But this fails.
11:35:16< rudy_> torturing your math students yet?
11:35:22< dwt> hm - as far as I can see from the sdl-config script it does use the fink one
11:35:24< drm> dwt: are you using fink to compile this, or doing it by hand?
11:35:34< drm> rudy_: i'm on sabbatical this year
11:35:37< dwt> I'm doing it by hand as it's not in fink
11:35:49< drm> !compile-myself
11:36:00< chris01> RangerRick: if you feel like you could try to build apr and help me to resolve this problem.
11:36:12< drm> dwt: grr, no bots today... read the FAQ about self-compiling, using fink stuff
11:36:17< dwt> ok
11:37:06< mcp> anyone an idea with my problem?
11:37:12< drm> chris01: BTW, when removing a package that had shared libs, normally one replaces it with a package foo-shlibs which only installs the shared libs... this is for users who might still have an old .deb that needs those
11:37:31< rudy_> sabbatical!
11:37:37< rudy_> another word for SLACKING! :)
11:37:40< chris01> drm: you mean about neon23?
11:37:55< drm> chris01: right... unless we know that nothing has linked to it for a long time
11:38:17< drm> rudy_: nah, sabbatical has more letters than slacking
11:38:22< drm> fancier :)
11:38:25< chris01> drm: i figured that it wasn't used for a _very_ long time and nothing in the current trees depends on it.
11:38:31< drm> chris01: ok
11:38:32< rudy_> sure, a fancier word for slacking :)
11:39:12< chris01> drm: i have  something positive for you: positive feedback for fink-0.24.10. It seems to do its job perfectly.
11:39:19< chris01> ;)
11:39:26< drm> chris01: thanks for that!
11:40:33< dwt> Hm, I actually do have the -I/sw/include and -L/sw/lib alreaddy (via configure)
11:40:43< drm> dwt: ok
11:41:03< dwt> and adding them via environment vars didn't solve the problem.
11:41:27< dwt> It seems the fink version links in the Cocoa implementation - that's odd to me
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11:42:52< drm> dwt: i guess you need to ask people who have successfully ported stuff that uses SDL...look at the names of maintainers of SDL-using fink packages
11:43:13< dwt> Ok, I'l have a look! Thanks to you for your help so far!
11:43:25< drm> bbl
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11:50:01< lisppaste> mcp pasted "xpdf 3.00-15 build error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11214
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12:17:02< akh> meh
12:17:20< akh> silly powerbook has decided it doesn't like my charger.
12:17:33< akh> (or vice versa)
12:17:50< rudy_> akh: blame either mit or johns hopkins?
12:18:03< akh> I'll blame MIT, sure.
12:18:18< akh> Though it happened over the weekend.
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12:19:25< akh> I don't know if my karma's good enough for it to be the power cord and not the computer which is broken.
12:20:11< akh> (and I don't have a voltmeter handy to try a non-superstious method)
12:20:33< dmacks> How about the touch-the-wires-to-your-tongue method?
12:25:38< htodd> I BLAME HARVARD
12:25:38< akh> I did the equivalent--found my voltmeter (but the battery was dead) but got the charge light on the adapter to come on.
12:25:46< akh> htodd:  even better!
12:26:01< htodd> Actually, Stanford, since I have so much against Stanford
12:26:08< htodd> Plus, they're closer.
12:26:20 * akh is still bitter that they didn't admit me.  I can go for that.
12:26:49< htodd> I wanted to go to Stanford, too. Learn the secret handshake, never do study, and become successful
12:27:01< akh> Yup.  Damn them!
12:27:06< htodd> never study, that is
12:27:09< htodd> I need more sleep
12:27:21< akh> Understandable.
12:27:36< htodd> Stanford is on my short list of "never date women from".
12:27:49< akh> At least it's only a short list.
12:27:55< htodd> of course, I'm on most of their lists, so it probably doesn't matter.
12:28:24< akh> My roommate from grad school had a bias against Waukesha County, WI.
12:28:40< akh> Bad experiences.
12:28:52< akh> Or maybe it was the fact that he wouldn't put out...
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12:29:10< htodd> My list is Reed College and Stanford. Maybe UNC.
12:30:02< htodd> I'd say stay away from Wellesley, too, if they weren't staying away from me already.
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12:34:23< akh> htodd:  It's not unheard of them to stay away from all men.
12:34:41< dmacks> ha
12:37:29< dmacks> When I was in high school getting junk-mail about various colleges, I got stuff from [some all-women's school]. I was gonna apply for a minority scholarship.
12:38:13< dmacks> Pull some Title IX strings and be a walk-on for the football "team".
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12:56:02< akh> dmacks:  dunno.  Depends how big you are.
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13:58:05 * gecko2 added a remembercomment to his update for joe, which he postet a month ago
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14:31:57< vasi> hey dmacks
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14:38:31< dmacks> Can't talk now.
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14:55:09< vasi> that's ok, i prefer when i can do all the talking anyhow :-P
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15:00:03< crashtron> hallo, do someone know if there is a fink info file for Krename?
15:01:57< snu> crashtron: why don't you look yourself?
15:02:16< crashtron> i did
15:02:24< crashtron> found nothing
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15:03:23< crashtron> i also write one on my own but it does not work :-(
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15:07:56< crashtron> i use mirror:sourceforge:%n/%n-%v.tar.bz2 to get the source package but when i want to install fink wants to download http://distfiles.bne.qld.au.finkmirrors.net/krename-3.0.7.tar.bz2
15:08:07< crashtron> what is wrong?
15:09:11< chris01> crashtron: see http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/mirrors.php?phpLang=en#Master
15:10:10< chris01> crashtron: nothing is wrong. The fink mirrors won't have your tar ball yet, since your package is not yet released.
15:11:01< crashtron> yeah but fink should get the source from sf.net, don't?
15:11:09< chris01> crashtron: also: did your read http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/quick-start-pkg/ ?
15:11:25< chris01> crashtron: yes, it will eventually. After it tried a couple of mirrors first.
15:12:09< crashtron> but i use "mirror:sourceforge" i should got to sf.net directly?!
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15:14:18< vasi> crashtron, we have things set up so our mirrors automagically get URLs from fink...and then users can choose to try the mirrors first
15:14:19< chris01> crashtron: yes and no. By default: no, it will check the mirrors first. But you can set how fink should behave in /sw/etc/fink.conf or by running 'fink configure'
15:14:29< vasi> if you run 'fink configure' you can choose a different option
15:14:40< chris01> vasi: genau
15:14:46< chris01> :)
15:14:50< crashtron> gut das
15:15:08< vasi> ge-who?
15:15:21< crashtron> yeah
15:16:18< crashtron> compiling know
15:16:23< chris01> vasi: http://dict.leo.org/?lang=de&search=genau
15:16:26< crashtron> oh now
15:17:14< vasi> ah, i didn't know it was learn-a-word-in-a-foreign-language day :-)
15:17:22< chris01> he :)
15:19:17< crashtron> will krusader be added to the distro?
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15:24:05< chris01> crashtron: you could read http://krusader.sourceforge.net/handbook/mac-port.html and submit the resulting .info file...
15:24:41< crashtron> there is already a .info file :-)
15:24:42< crashtron> http://krusader.sourceforge.net/down.php
15:26:24< chris01> crashtron: I would ask the guy from http://blog.wannawork.de/index.php/2005/07/29/krusader_mac_port if he submits the info file.
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15:27:45< crashtron> okay. i have to go now. bye
15:29:32< akh> *grumble* koffice didn't build...
15:31:27< chris01> RangerRick: if you are still here: thanks for updating the openldap package in your exp dir.
15:32:05< RangerRick> chris01: no problem
15:32:09< RangerRick> what's in there I *think* should be OK
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15:32:39< chris01> ok. I just built it here too. Seems fine. Still have to resolve the problem with apr.
15:32:51< RangerRick> I just finished a test build of that too
15:32:54< RangerRick> hang on a sec, I'll check it in
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15:33:59< chris01> oh, cool!
15:34:10< RangerRick> what you had was fine, but needed conflicts/updates work still
15:34:21< RangerRick> hm, no, still doesn't upgrade right
15:34:49< RangerRick> the problem is, things don't work if you're making a new placeholder package that depends on what used to be a real one
15:34:56< RangerRick> because the old one conflicts with that package (and probably not in a versioned way)
15:35:24< RangerRick> ie, the new apr won't upgrade over apr-ssl even with the apr-ssl replacement package because the old apr-ssl conflicts with apr, so it never gets that far
15:35:29< chris01> mhm... yes. I thought there might be a problem like this.
15:35:30< RangerRick> apt is smart enough to work around it, but dpkg isn't
15:35:34< RangerRick> that's hwy I ended up with -unified
15:35:39< chris01> uh oh...
15:35:44< RangerRick> it works for openldap because there's no non-ssl version of openldap to get in the way
15:35:57< chris01> yes, and i wanted to avoid another -xxxx variant
15:35:57< RangerRick> so then you make -unified, and all packagse that replace real existing packages are placeholders
15:36:01< RangerRick> and then it seems to work
15:36:17< chris01> yup, will probably have to do it. :-S
15:36:19< RangerRick> yeah, it sucks, but it's the only alternative I could find that worked how I wanted it
15:36:22< RangerRick> lemme rework it real quick
15:36:28< RangerRick> I've done it 30 times in the last week, I can do it real fast  ;)
15:36:31< chris01> sure. thanks.
15:36:33< chris01> hehe
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15:39:20< RangerRick> man, if we could get svn to be unified, I could fix my ssl/non-ssl kdesdk3-svn packages  :)
15:39:32< RangerRick> that would rock
15:41:28< chris01> yep... i am working on it... have to convince TheSin to move apr and apche2 to unified first
15:41:51< snu> "unified"?
15:42:20< cirdan> hey RangerRick 
15:44:39< RangerRick> hola
15:44:48< chris01> snu: "unified" meaning: -ssl and non-ssl unified into one package using the system supplied openssl package.
15:44:56< RangerRick> snu: combining old ssl/non-ssl split packages into one package that links apple's openssl
15:44:59< RangerRick> dang, beat me to it  :)
15:45:37< akh> You will be unified...resisitance is futile.
15:46:01< cirdan> RangerRick: i know nothing about the openssl stuff, but what about forcing the system ssl for the bindist, but allowing users to use either
15:46:03< snu> i tried to install subversion the other day, it was a bit sketchy
15:46:11< RangerRick> cirdan: different install_name's
15:46:20< RangerRick> they're not replacements for each other
15:46:20< cirdan> with auto-shlibs it won't be a problem
15:46:25< cirdan> RangerRick: they don't need to be
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15:46:32< RangerRick> how would you allow them to use either?
15:46:38< cirdan> build dep on |
15:46:51< RangerRick> well, that would always link the fink one then
15:47:02< RangerRick> because you have to specifically set flags to get the faked one
15:47:07< RangerRick> well, it would always link fink if openssl097 is installed
15:47:10< akh> yup
15:47:14< RangerRick> if nothing's installed it'd fall through to /usr
15:47:24< cirdan> autoshlibs detects if the fink version is linked against and adds the dep if needed
15:47:27< RangerRick> cirdan: I think that's just asking for a lot of trouble without any benefit
15:47:39< cirdan> RangerRick: security updates
15:47:42< RangerRick> cirdan: yes, but what I'm saying is, | system-openssl-dev might as well not even have it
15:47:58< cirdan> RangerRick: it's main use would be for the bindist
15:48:44< chris01> snu: what were your problems with svn?
15:48:58< snu> first pass it installed the wrong version of berkely db
15:49:07< snu> tried again and it replaced it with the right one
15:49:09< snu> it was a bit odd
15:49:33< RangerRick> cirdan: security updates doesn't seem to be an issue in practice
15:49:50< snu> it is
15:49:50< chris01> snu: strange indeed. It could be that some other package during your built needed an older db4.
15:50:02< RangerRick> and it adds a lot of uncertainty to the build process
15:50:03< snu> RangerRick: the latest openssh whinges about the header version not maching the library version.
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15:51:20< RangerRick> fatal?  or just annoying?
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15:58:35< snu> chris01: yeah, something wanted 4.3 then something wanted 4.2 or soemthing
15:59:21< chris01> snu: but it finally built ok? I guess it is python still depending on 4.2. 
16:00:07< snu> yeah it did, then i decided i'd just install it myself.
16:00:17< snu> the packages are all out of date
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16:00:58< chris01> snu: which packages are out of date?
16:01:20< snu> svn, apache2
16:01:39< chris01> snu: you probably have to enable the unstable tree.
16:01:42< chris01> unstable?
16:01:50< snu> yeah, i looked in unstable too
16:02:04< chris01> svn is almost up-to-date in unstable.
16:02:17< snu> and i wanted to install trac anyway
16:02:23< snu> all of that stuff is a bit sketchy in fink
16:02:38< chris01> and it will be moved to stable pretty soon. once this is done i will release svn 1.2.4
16:02:44< chris01> trac is in fink too.
16:02:51< snu> yeah, i know. 0.8
16:02:53< snu> latest is 0.8.4
16:03:18< chris01> i see
16:04:12< dmacks> RangerRick: You seemed to understand the mozilla/firefox crypto issue...is there a way to build just the gecko layout engine?
16:04:51< chris01> snu: trac in fink is at 0.8.4, too.
16:07:17< RangerRick> dmacks: I don't understand it that well  ;)
16:07:24< snu> it was at 0.8 when i looked like yseterday
16:07:27< snu> so *shrug*
16:07:27< snu> :)
16:07:32< RangerRick> I just know they have their own crypto libraries, I don't know if it's possible to chop up their build system in such a way
16:07:53< RangerRick> going by how the mozilla install looks, I'm going to guess no (since it looks like they build everything as loadable modules)
16:08:29< RangerRick> I don't recall who made the original split-up mozilla package, they might have a better idea
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16:09:44< snu> are export restrictions really still an issue?
16:10:05< RangerRick> snu: maybe not
16:10:42< RangerRick> part of the problem is no one's stepped up to the plate and said "I've looked into all of the legal stuff, and I can confidently say it's not an issue."  and until someone we trust does, we're gonna keep dithering on the edge of getting rid of crypto/  :)
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16:12:18< dmacks> Okay.
16:15:12< chris01> RangerRick: apr now built fine here on 10.4 with your changes. Thanks! I committed to my exp dir. You can delete the files in your exp again.
16:15:19< RangerRick> ok
16:15:26< chris01> RangerRick: btw: feel free to change stuff in my exp if you want.
16:16:09< chris01> next step will be to try to build svn unified.
16:16:24< RangerRick> wooit
16:16:26< RangerRick> er
16:16:27< RangerRick> woot
16:16:30< RangerRick> ;)
16:16:54< RangerRick> holy crap, mobile gmaps works on my treo finally
16:16:54< RangerRick> woot
16:20:02< chris01> and we have to convince pogma to update his db43 packages to unified too...
16:20:07< RangerRick> yeah
16:20:10< chris01> pogma?
16:24:41< vasi> dmacks, maybe talk to Josh Aas at the mozilla foundation? he's the mac guy, and he likes us :-)
16:25:57< vasi> chris01, i've got local-apt-deb detection working...and also batching of 'apt-get --download-only' calls
16:26:13< chris01> vasi: sounds nice
16:26:24< dmacks> vasi: Okay. I can find his contact info on mozilla.org?
16:26:38< vasi> dmacks, just google the name
16:26:42< RangerRick> ooh, batching
16:26:43< RangerRick> very nice
16:26:43< vasi> you'll find something :-)
16:26:43< dmacks> Okay:)
16:27:04< dmacks> If it's pr0n I'm gonna be pissed
16:27:12< RangerRick> my apt 0.6.40.1 package seems to work alright, if people are interested
16:27:25< RangerRick> although it shows our archives as untrusted sources, and I'm not sure yet how to trust them
16:27:36< cirdan> RangerRick: gpg sigs
16:27:43< vasi> i'm kinda frustrated that fink wants to restrict UseBinaryDist to installs in /sw....there's no reason UseBinaryDist can't work for other basepaths, it just can't use the official fink sources
16:27:56< RangerRick> right, I mean the specific mechanics of doing so
16:27:57< vasi> RR, oy it took me forever to figure that out on my Ubuntu partition
16:28:05< cirdan> heh
16:28:23< RangerRick> for ours we'd want to turn off the check until we can sign our packages  ;)
16:28:49< vasi> i had a repo stored in 'deb file:/...'...on the local disk! and it tells me it's untrusted....
16:29:08< RangerRick> just hack IsTrusted() to always return true  ;)
16:29:43< vasi> mach_inject, here we come
16:29:45< RangerRick> I was thinking more like patch apt  :)
16:29:53< vasi> aw damn, no fun
16:30:08< vasi> so RR, any interest in making a new dpkg too? ;-)
16:30:16< RangerRick> I could certainly try  :)
16:30:23< RangerRick> no guarantees
16:30:27< RangerRick> didn't realize ours was out of date
16:30:34< vasi> it's got a funky feature that lets synaptic monitor the progress of installation
16:30:40< cirdan> hey, any intrest in having fink tell users about suggests and reccomends?
16:30:49< cirdan> much like apt lets users know
16:30:54< RangerRick> cirdan: that's been on my "oh yeah, I should do that" list for a long time
16:30:59< cirdan> :-)
16:31:04< vasi> how does apt let users know?
16:31:11< RangerRick> I've even used suggested/recommends tags in my kde packages on the off chance we implement it  :)
16:31:15< cirdan> every time someone mentions it, you go ""oh yeah, I should do that"
16:31:15 * vasi is too lazy to set up a scenario just to try it out
16:31:46< RangerRick> vasi: basically, for anything that's suggested/recommended, it says, "it is also <suggested> that you install such-and-such list, should I?"
16:31:47< RangerRick> the default is "Y" for recommends, and "N" for suggests
16:31:54< RangerRick> ie, recommend is a strong suggestion  ;)
16:31:55< vasi> oh that's kinda nice
16:32:10< RangerRick> would probably only be 10 lines of code
16:32:11< RangerRick> heh
16:32:21< vasi> well whenever i get around to rewriting the whole goddamned dep engine...
16:32:24< vasi> :-P
16:32:26< cirdan> RangerRick: it doesn't ask about installing it
16:32:36< cirdan> just lets the user know
16:32:37< RangerRick> there's also config options to give it defaults, I believe
16:32:47< RangerRick> really?
16:32:51< RangerRick> yeah, I guess you're right
16:32:58< vasi> heh.
16:33:02< RangerRick> I guess I'm thinking of how I was planning on implementing it fink  ;)
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16:34:16< cirdan> vasi: debian has a nice policy on what packages are reccomended/suggested/enhances/etc.
16:34:23< RangerRick> hah, that was easy enough...  pkgAcqArchive::pkgAcqArchive(..., Trusted(false))
16:34:24< cirdan> if you're not too lazy to read it
16:34:25< RangerRick> change that to (true)
16:34:26< vasi> cirdan i know, i follow it in my .info files :-)
16:34:27< cirdan> heh
16:34:34< vasi> lol
16:34:46< cirdan> RangerRick: can u set it in the config file?
16:34:50< vasi> well uh, i guess that's one way to do things
16:34:55< RangerRick> cirdan: doesn't look like it
16:34:58< cirdan> heh
16:35:05< RangerRick> I suppose I could make a config option  :)
16:35:11< cirdan> add pref IgnoreTrust: :-)
16:35:13< vasi> hey guys, i need opinions...you're good at giving those, right? :-)
16:35:19< RangerRick> vasi: no
16:35:21< RangerRick> I mean yes!
16:35:25< RangerRick> I mean, I *think* no.
16:35:27< vasi> what should 'fink list --tree=stable' do?
16:35:41< cirdan> The following NEW packages will be installed:
16:35:41< cirdan>   libcupsys2 libdvbpsi4 libglu1-xorg libmodplug0c2 libosp4c2 libostyle1c2 libwxgtk2.6-0 libxcomposite1
16:35:47< RangerRick> list all of the packages in stable?
16:35:49< vasi> there seems to be agreement that it should be useful (ie: not like it is now)
16:35:50< cirdan> oops
16:35:57 * RangerRick doesn't know what it does now
16:35:58< vasi> but nobody's quite sure what it should actually list
16:36:04< cirdan> vasi: yeah, list all packages and versions in stable
16:36:22< cirdan> and fink list --tree=stable foo-shlibs should list the version in stable
16:36:28< vasi> cirdan, so then what should the 'i' and '(i)' represent?
16:36:34< cirdan> vasi: who hacked on that, me?  :-)
16:37:12< cirdan> vasi: well...it is really useless
16:37:37< cirdan> since we don't have any type of pinning
16:37:46< cirdan> and tree priorities
16:37:55< vasi> we DO have priorities
16:38:01< cirdan> since when?
16:38:07< vasi> your Trees list is from lowest to highest priority
16:38:14< vasi> since a long time ago :-)
16:38:20< cirdan> that means nothing when versions are concerned
16:38:27< vasi> i dunno if that's official or not, but that's how it's always been
16:38:39< vasi> yeah, well it's a simple kinda priorities
16:38:52< vasi> ok anyhow, don't tell me what's useless or not :-P
16:39:05< cirdan> i mean stable has the highest priority and if a package exists in stbale, the stable version will be installed unless it doesn't exist in stable, or unless another tree is specified
16:39:05< vasi> tell me what it should say in that first column where it usually does ' ', 'i', etc
16:39:24< cirdan> vasi: it prolly shouldn't change...
16:39:25< vasi> this is just for listing...it doesn't apply to installing
16:39:51< cirdan> if you wanna get funky, have like i (i) and *i*
16:40:02< vasi> owie
16:40:18< cirdan> i = versoin in stable is installed, (i) = older than stable, and *i* is newer than stable
16:40:28< cirdan> nothing but the funk
16:40:29< cirdan> :-)
16:40:35< vasi> hmm, makes sense
16:40:50 * vasi waves his magic wand and says "make it so!"
16:41:02< vasi> and *poof*, code appears
16:41:20< vasi> or maybe (poof)
16:41:31 * cirdan wonders if RangerRick is the abused house elf :-)
16:41:36< RangerRick> heh
16:41:43< RangerRick> abusive, maybe
16:41:43< RangerRick> ;)
16:41:49< cirdan> :-)
16:41:55< cirdan> hey, RangerRick so how's the gf?
16:42:02< RangerRick> good  :)
16:42:03< cirdan> haven't heard about her for long time
16:42:12< RangerRick> I'm trying to find the time to do some ring shopping  :)
16:42:36< cirdan> wow
16:42:52< cirdan> i saw a real nice one, 1.75CW
16:42:56< cirdan> $8,200
16:43:00< RangerRick> codewarrior?  ;)
16:43:02< cirdan> not bad price, certified and all
16:43:07< RangerRick> well, I'll probably do something custom
16:43:08< cirdan> CarrotWeight :-p
16:43:20< RangerRick> she really likes celtic stuff, I want to get something that works some celtic knots into it
16:43:27< cirdan> RangerRick: gonna get her a LoTR ring?  ;-)
16:43:29< cirdan> mwahahah...
16:43:33< RangerRick> haha
16:43:33< RangerRick> no
16:44:16< cirdan> get her a puzzle ring, so if she tries to take it off you'll know she was trying to cheat ;-)
16:44:22< cirdan> sailors used to do that
16:44:34< cirdan> i've seen as many as 5 interlocking rings
16:44:35< RangerRick> not worried about that  :)
16:44:36< cirdan> *crazy*
16:44:45< RangerRick> if I thougth I needed that, I wouldn't be ring-shopping
16:45:40< cirdan> vasi: here's what it looks like
16:45:42< cirdan> Suggested packages:
16:45:42< cirdan>   hplip aspell konq-speaker kdeadmin-doc-html efax hylafax-client mgetty-fax libqt3-mt-psql
16:45:45< cirdan>   libqt3-mt-mysql libqt3-mt-odbc
16:45:48< cirdan> Recommended packages:
16:45:50< cirdan>   hal pmount
16:45:54< cirdan> The following packages will be REMOVED:
16:46:30< vasi> hmmm...intewesting
16:46:46< vasi> you can put it on the 0.26 list if you want
16:47:08< dmacks> At one time I had a quick implementation of Rec/Suggests...just merged the values into the Depends. Turns out some packages have a:Depends:b b:Suggests:a, so the dep engine caught fire.
16:47:24< vasi> ooh fun
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16:47:33< cirdan> hahaha
16:47:41< vasi> i think apt can actually handle a:Depends:b and b:Depends:a
16:47:47< cirdan> i'd be happy if they were just printed
16:47:50 * dmacks says this *not* cause I'm volunteering to implement, just to let you know about a weird corner case:)
16:48:22< cirdan> dmacks: if the package is already installed/will be installed, it doesn't show up in the suggests/recc lines
16:48:31< vasi> dmacks, did you manage to take a look at my new Getopt wrapper?
16:48:42< vasi> i wanna get it merged in quickly if possible
16:48:59< cirdan> anyone look at my branch more?
16:49:02< dmacks> I'm prolly majorly time-limitted this week.
16:49:16< cirdan> hey, can anyone do `host www.middle--earth.org'
16:49:21< cirdan> lemme know if it resolves
16:49:28< pogma> chris01: what's "unified" ?
16:49:28< vasi> hmm ok...well i'll hold off on my Engine.pm hacking for a bit
16:52:10< dmacks> I have a semi-handle on gnome-python2-py...it's a pretty huge blocker, is my first priority if I get a few minutes here'n'there.
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16:52:53< vasi> yeah i just saw the update, looking forward to trying it
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18:27:15< drm> hi dmacks
18:39:58< gopherd> Welcome back drm!
18:50:28-!- zizban [n=zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
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--- Log opened Mon Aug 29 19:09:39 2005
19:11:23-!- gopherd [n=irclogge@ip24-255-41-153.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #fink
19:11:23-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis
19:11:23-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005]
19:11:23[Users #fink]
19:11:23[ Airo     ] [ cmeme   ] [ gzl         ] [ kito    ] [ Murr    ] [ usata ] 
19:11:23[ akh_gone ] [ dmacks  ] [ htodd       ] [ knghtbrd] [ newmanbe] [ zizban] 
19:11:23[ armenb   ] [ drm     ] [ jack-       ] [ KraMer  ] [ pnorman ] [ zorton] 
19:11:23[ auslander] [ Erik____] [ JosephSpiros] [ Ksilebo ] [ pogma   ] 
19:11:23[ BleedAway] [ Gavrila ] [ jtyler      ] [ mcp     ] [ runelind] 
19:11:23[ cirdan   ] [ gecko2  ] [ kane-xs     ] [ mee_bot ] [ snu     ] 
19:11:23[ Clef     ] [ gopherd ] [ kbroderick  ] [ muesli  ] [ swix_   ] 
19:11:23-!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 38 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 38 normal]
19:11:25-!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug  3 17:57:20 2003
19:12:26-!- Irssi: Join to #fink was synced in 64 secs
19:13:29 * newmanbe observes the hostmask on gopherd not working.
19:14:29< zizban> gopherd...pfft
19:14:57< gopherd> Be quite you! I like my name!
19:15:37 * snu is quite.
19:16:12< drm> indeed
19:16:22< zizban> I am not sure I like these newer, more intelligent bots :P
19:16:27< drm> would a bot by any other name smell as sweet?
19:16:32< newmanbe> Drone?
19:16:42< zizban> heh, not bad for a math wiz :)
19:17:03 * newmanbe likes how irssi is dropping things.
19:17:30< zizban> use irssix
19:17:35< newmanbe> Or replaces the order.
19:17:39< newmanbe> zizban: The X part defeats the whole purpose of using screen.
19:17:40< zizban> true
19:17:52< zizban> I forgot your using screen
19:17:56-!- cmeme [n=cmeme@boa.b9.com] has quit ["Client terminated by server"]
19:18:00< gopherd> Ha! Only one logging bot now!
19:18:04-!- cmeme [n=cmeme@boa.b9.com] has joined #fink
19:18:05< gopherd> Other than RangerRick...
19:18:29< zizban> heh
19:20:00< newmanbe>  /ban *@*.b9.com
19:23:39-!- akh_gone is now known as akh
19:24:52-!- drm [n=drm@kitp121.itp.ucsb.edu] has quit []
19:26:18 * akh hopes koffice actually finishes building this time around.
19:26:19-!- JesseW [n=chatzill@pdpc/supporter/student/JesseW] has joined #fink
19:26:19< zizban> I like kword
19:26:49< zizban> I wish RangerRick would aqua-ize it
19:28:10< akh> keep wishing ;-)
19:28:18-!- Gavrila [n=Gav@213-140-16-182.fastres.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:29:27< akh> DId anybody post anything about links--I was curious whether allowing linkage to both the FInk and system openssl was allowed.
19:29:27< zizban> heh
19:29:30< zizban> nobody
19:29:54< zizban> I wouldn't think. It seems to link to one or another
19:30:10< zizban> you had fink's so it found that first
19:30:18< zizban> I didn't so it found openssl
19:31:30-!- citizen_0 [n=user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
19:31:34< akh> Right--RangerRick mentioned earlier here that one has to go to a lot of trouble to _avoid_ linking fink's version if it's installed.
19:31:35< zizban> so I say, let it go
19:32:49< akh> meaning commit?
19:34:16< zizban> that's my vote
19:34:16< zizban> knock snu'
19:34:17< zizban> s old one out of stable
19:34:17< zizban> I mean, unstable
19:34:17 * akh is afraid of commitment ;-)
19:35:34< akh> (and I can't until tomorrow anyway because my laptop is down)
19:35:34< zizban> me too...that's why I'm still engaged after 6 years :)
19:35:35< zizban> okay, let me know and I'll start working on the bleeding edge Links
19:35:36< akh> I'd like to hear an opinion from a -core personage about this.
19:36:08< zizban> Okay, works for me
19:36:55< akh> Yeah--after unleashing a broken cvs I'm gun-shy.
19:38:01< dmacks> Given a package that links to a specific .dylib (-l at compile-time, not some dlopen mechanism at runtime), it's veruy difficult to use "either ours or Apple's" without some heavy-duty magic.
19:38:01< zizban> ya
19:38:31< akh> So it really needs to pick one or the other then? (which I kind of what I thought)
19:39:13< zizban> no, it would need voodoo to do that is what I am thinking
19:39:17-!- JesseW [n=chatzill@pdpc/supporter/student/JesseW] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:40:34< zizban> I don't see the issue but I'm not a -core member, either
19:44:45< pogma> all packages must be the same for all people
19:44:45 * pogma is not a core member either, but I'm betting thats the answer you'll get]
19:45:54 * dmacks is, /me says "what pogma said" :)
19:47:54< zizban> so what does this mean?
19:49:06< dmacks> $maintainer (or whoever) must pick either apple's or fink's.
19:50:31< zizban> does someone have an example of such voodoo I can use?
19:50:56< dmacks> To pick one or the other, or to automatically use "whichever"?
19:51:53< zizban> to pick one or the other?
19:52:09< dmacks> If you just (Build)Depends on the openssl097* pkgs, you get Fink's
19:53:20< zizban> and for system openssl?
19:53:21< dmacks> If you don't, but instead BuildDepends:system-openssl-dev and follow the directions in 'fink info system-openssl-dev', you'll get Apple's.
19:54:30< zizban> okay
19:54:31< zizban> thanks
19:55:57< dmacks> You're welcome.
19:56:58< zizban> I got the job in the computer department at school...yeah!
19:57:05< dmacks> Sweet!
19:57:58< zizban> yeah...I got in tomorrow so more special ed
19:58:22< zizban> well I'll get some special ed students in my classes but they wont be my problem anymore
20:01:44< akh> Nice.  
20:01:45-!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:03:25< dmacks> !seen drm
20:03:32< dmacks> cirdan: !seen Melian
20:04:19< dmacks> Clef: I updated your pyorbit-pyXX
20:04:56-!- citizen_0 [n=user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:18:19-!- snu [n=finlay@212.159.112.151] has quit ["leaving"]
20:24:39< zizban> when I add the BuildDepends, do i still keep the --with-ssl --with-ssl-dir=%p/lib/system-openssl in the ConfigParams?
20:32:22< dmacks> Sounds reasonable. If you want to make absolutely sure fink's won't be used, add BuildConflicts:openssl-dev|openssl097-dev
20:33:03< dmacks> Watch ./configure to make sure it's finding openssl at all, check the compiled binary with 'otool -L' to make sure it lists the /usr/lib one not the /sw/lib one.
20:33:28< zizban> ok
20:33:29< dmacks> bbl
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21:08:31-!- ylon [n=none@24.53.141.13] has joined #fink
21:11:46-!- JosephSpiros [n=joseph@ip-246-036.oberlin.net] has quit ["leaving"]
21:12:05-!- JosephSpiros [n=joseph@ip-246-036.oberlin.net] has joined #fink
21:58:38-!- drm [n=drm@ip68-108-245-119.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #fink
21:58:38< drm> dmacks, come back
22:00:50< gopherd> Welcome back drm!
22:00:58< gopherd> dmacks: host not found
22:11:57-!- cirdan [n=chris@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
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23:13:42-!- gopherd_ [n=irclogge@ip68-98-18-98.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #fink
23:13:42-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis
23:13:42-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005]
23:13:42[Users #fink]
23:13:42[ Airo     ] [ drm     ] [ htodd       ] [ kito     ] [ mee_bot ] [ swix_ ] 
23:13:42[ armenb   ] [ Erik____] [ jack-       ] [ knghtbrd ] [ muesli  ] [ usata ] 
23:13:42[ auslander] [ gecko2  ] [ JosephSpiros] [ KraMer   ] [ newmanbe] [ ylon  ] 
23:13:42[ BleedAway] [ gopherd ] [ jtyler      ] [ KsiLaptop] [ pnorman ] [ zorton] 
23:13:42[ Clef     ] [ gopherd_] [ kane-xs     ] [ Ksilebo  ] [ pogma   ] 
23:13:42[ cmeme    ] [ gzl     ] [ kbroderick  ] [ mcp      ] [ runelind] 
23:13:42-!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 34 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 34 normal]
23:13:42-!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug  3 17:57:20 2003
23:13:59-!- Irssi: Join to #fink was synced in 18 secs
23:19:57< newmanbe> Sigh, I don't feel like fixing that.
23:21:38-!- drm [n=drm@ip68-108-245-119.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:21:59 * newmanbe likes how Fink labels a non-platform dependent package PowerPC.
23:25:40-!- gopherd [n=irclogge@ip24-255-41-153.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
--- Log closed Tue Aug 30 00:00:40 2005

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