--- Log opened Sun Aug 28 00:00:59 2005
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00:30:14< jack-> http://arson.sourceforge.net/
00:30:27< jack-> wish i'd be smart enough to port this one
00:34:51< tkil_ti> hi... i have a powerbook that i installed fink + finkcommander on back when it was on 10.3; i recently upgraded to 10.4 and am trying to bring all my fink stuff up-to-date.  both finkcommander and fink eventually die with errors on package emacs21
00:34:53< tkil_ti> any ideas?
00:35:02< tkil_ti> at this point i'm contemplating just blowing away /sw and starting from scratch.
00:35:21< jack-> thats the recommended method ;)
00:35:30< tkil_ti> jack- -- oh.  :)
00:35:38 * tkil_ti breaks out the flamethrower
00:36:12< tkil_ti> trying to reconcile the upgrade instructions from fink vs. those from finkcommander, coupled with a distressing ignorance of the dselect / apt "mindset", has me very confused...
00:36:21< jack-> however, you can save+copy back all of the stuff that accumulated in your /sw/fink/dists/local/main/binary-darwin-powerpc/
00:36:29< jack-> that might save quite some time
00:36:45< tkil_ti> is that where "you have to build this from source" stuff lives?
00:36:50< jack-> no guarantee that the stuff still works..
00:36:56< tkil_ti> (and is there any advantage to just blowing it all away and rebuilding under latest xcode?)
00:37:07< jack-> no thats where fink stores the binary packages for everything that succeeded to build once
00:37:16< tkil_ti> yeah, nuking it and starting over sounds appealing.
00:37:21< jack-> no real advantage..just saves a bit of time
00:37:22< tkil_ti> hopefully there's not much, as i sadly didn't use fink much.
00:37:28< tkil_ti> jack- -- cool, thanks!  :)
00:37:35< jack-> for huge stuff like kde3.4.2 if you happened to build that already
00:37:48< tkil_ti> oof, nope.  :)
00:38:00< tkil_ti> mostly i've used fink for small(ish) utils like wget, ncurses lib, etc.
00:38:06< jack-> just trash your whole /sw then, start fresh
00:38:09< tkil_ti> currently arguing with it to try to get emacs in various flavors.
00:38:10< jack-> fine then :)
00:38:16< jack-> hehe
00:38:34< jack-> you know what, i prefer vim..guess thats politics meanwhile or something
00:38:44< jack-> but emacs is worth it, for sure
00:39:10< tkil_ti> :q! on ye...
00:39:18< tkil_ti> i mean, uh, you're welcome to your $EDITOR of choice.  :)
00:39:28< jack-> ;)
00:39:38< tkil_ti> i wave my crippled left pinky finger in RSI-crippled defiance!
00:39:42< jack-> i even have friends who stick to nano
00:39:43< jack-> lol
00:39:56< tkil_ti> i can survive under vi-ish things, and i really love the "repeat last action" auto-macro feature.
00:40:11< jack-> yep, thats one of the jewels
00:40:12< tkil_ti> but i'm a bit too wired to instant navigation, and my fingers know emacs really really well.
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00:40:22< jack-> :)
00:41:40< tkil_ti> jack- -- just looking at arson, how is it better / different than k3b?  if nothing else, it's a bit worrying that it's 2 years since any news posts.
00:42:00< tkil_ti> (and my experience with kde is minimal, i just use whatever fedora core installs by default on my linux box.)
00:42:07< jack-> i dunno if its better than k3b, i didnt really compare the features
00:42:14< jack-> but arson looks pretty complete-ish
00:42:29< jack-> almost like nero-kde :p
00:43:27< jack-> still got an old port of xcdroast, independent from fink/dp/gnudarwin/etc..works flawlessly with my pioneer dvdr
00:43:43< jack-> so i dont really _need_ it, just curious since it looks damn nice
00:44:58< jack-> pondering to switch to unstable, just because of kde3.4.2 and all the goodies like k3b ;)
00:45:14< jack-> just a bit scared of the build times, kde is hell on 350mhz
00:45:15< jack-> hehe
00:45:22< tkil_ti> yeah, ouch.  :)
00:45:42< tkil_ti> my linux box is ~3GHz p4 1GiB RAM, pb is 1GHz 1GiB G4...
00:45:56< jack-> quite a difference :p
00:46:14< tkil_ti> i sorta lost my taste for ultra-customizing my environment, too many upgrades and not enough time to migrate everything..
00:46:22< jack-> but i cant educate my linuxpc to build for darwin, i guess
00:46:29< jack-> would be worth a try maybe though
00:46:53< tkil_ti> yeah, cross-compiles are scary.
00:47:01< jack-> indeed :p
00:47:03< tkil_ti> and even kde, just let it go overnight, does that work  :)
00:47:09< tkil_ti> (uh, put a '?' in there somewhere)
00:47:39< jack-> yeah
00:48:11< jack-> maybe i'll just get kde3.4 from dp, and dont touch my fink
00:48:49< tkil_ti> dp?
00:48:51< jack-> but the stuff is built so prefix-oriented..would make me throw dozens of silly symlinks from /opt/local to /sw once again i guess
00:48:52< tkil_ti> <-- ignorant
00:48:57< jack-> darwinports, the other project
00:49:02< tkil_ti> ah.
00:49:26< jack-> its sick ;)
00:49:46< jack-> real mac linux freaks have filled /opt/local, /sw and /usr/local dirs
00:49:55< tkil_ti> ha ha.
00:49:56< jack-> all with own libs and includes of course
00:50:00< jack-> funky :p
00:50:21< tkil_ti> i use my Mad Unix Skillz (tm) and do some brute force installs into /usr/local, but yeah...
00:50:35< jack-> same here :p
00:50:46< jack-> oh and not to forget, /usr/X11R6
00:50:51< jack-> lol
00:51:09< tkil_ti> i just wussed out and used the Apple X11 stuff.
00:51:44< jack-> me too
00:52:03< jack-> but somehow i cant start it through its icon anymore, so i'm back to X &
00:52:16< jack-> not that much difference to the xdarwin i had before ;)
00:53:02< jack-> none of the 3 or 4 xfree86 builds for darwin is "complete" anyway
00:53:15< jack-> no Xv, no XfVidModeExtension, etc
00:54:17< jack-> its possible to run it rooted and avoid aqua completely, but no fun if you cant even change your resolution without quitting X completely
00:54:31< jack-> or run opengl screensavers on fullscreen, etc
00:55:04< tkil_ti> huh.  i have a laptop so usually i'm not changing resolution...
00:55:15< jack-> lucky you :)
00:55:24< tkil_ti> and so far i'm not heartbroken by the fact that fc4 upgrade on my x86 linux box turned off all the flashy xscreensaver modules.  :)
00:55:33< jack-> hehe
00:55:41< tkil_ti> although i'm currently using an outboard CRT, so yeah, res changes are handy.
00:56:05< jack-> some software requires the stuff to be present, may it get used or not
00:56:28< jack-> xmms visualizers for example..i ported a few, but failed with those who want xfvidmodeextension etc
00:57:02< jack-> sad, i'd love to have "GForce" in xmms too, finally
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01:54:08< tkil_ti> sure enough, blowing away /sw and a few rounds of fink selfupdate, everything seems to have worked this time.  :)
01:54:17< tkil_ti> thanks for the company!
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04:50:34< dwt> Morning!
04:53:27< lisppaste> dwt pasted "libGL conflict" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11186
04:53:39< dwt> I've got a quick question about a compiler setting to get a linux app to compile on os x
04:53:47< dwt> This is foobillard (not in fink)
04:53:55< dwt> And it compiles (well it does)
04:54:06< dwt> but I can't link it because I have two libGL's on my system
04:54:20< dwt> one in the OpenGL framework and one in /usr/X11R6/lib
04:54:25< dwt> And they conflict
04:54:32< dwt> Is there a s tandard way to get rid of this problem?
04:55:52< dwt> This problem seems to have come up sometimes in the past
04:56:05< dwt> though I couldn't find the solutions on the mailinglists where the problems where posted
05:00:02< dwt> ah well, thanks for the try - I have to go off now, so cu later (however I'm reachable at spamfaenger@gmx.de however I don't hope for that
05:00:03< dwt> )
05:00:05< dwt> thanks anyway!
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08:26:44< Darien> anyone know a good KDE media player?
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10:55:21< cirdan> Melian: test
10:55:22< Melian> cirdan: grrr, what do *you* want?
10:55:44< cirdan> !botsnack
10:55:44< Melian> cirdan: aw, gee
11:01:32< newmanbe> gopherd: Test
11:01:40< gopherd> newmanbe: I'm working!
11:01:46< newmanbe> gopherd: botsnack
11:01:50< gopherd> newmanbe: Thanks!
11:01:58< cirdan> gopherd: info
11:02:07< cirdan> gopherd: uptime
11:02:11< cirdan> gopherd: stats
11:02:17< gopherd> cirdan: syntax error
11:02:52< cirdan> gopherd: lart
11:03:00< Darien> ok
11:03:24< newmanbe> Darien: I don't know if any media players for KDE have been packaged.
11:03:33< Darien> hmm
11:03:48< newmanbe> cirdan: http://www.finkproject.org stopped working while you were away.
11:07:05< cirdan> what day, u know?
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11:38:27< newmanbe> I don't know. Someone else mentioned it too.
11:44:46< zizban> There, .info file updated
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13:38:33-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis
13:38:33-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005]
13:38:33[Users #fink]
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13:38:33[ auslander] [ Erik____ ] [ htodd       ] [ Ksilebo  ] [ newmanbe] [ swix_ ] 
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13:38:37-!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug  3 17:57:20 2003
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15:16:26< lane> Hi all. I have a basic question, but I haven't been able to find the answer in the fink docs or via googling. How can I enable the unstable tree in fink on 10.4? 
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15:25:15< theid> http://www.google.com/search?q=fink+enable+unstable+tree
15:25:40< theid> first link, Q5.8
15:28:03< Darien> Qwhat?
15:28:14< Darien> oh
15:28:16< Darien> nvm
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16:49:08< lane> theid: thanks. I knew it was basic. I appreciate the link.
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17:14:33< Darien> anyone know why KDE refuses to keep the 'anti-aliasing' setting enabled?
17:16:50< zizban> nope ;)
17:20:36< Darien> ok
17:20:37< Darien> fair enoguh
17:21:27< Darien> The following package will be installed or updated:
17:21:28< Darien>  bundle-gnome
17:21:28< Darien> The following 48 additional packages will be installed:
17:21:30< Darien> oops crap
17:21:31< Darien> wrong chan
17:21:37< zizban> heh
17:21:44< Darien> sorry :/
17:21:48< zizban> I'm not the kde guy around here
17:22:06< Darien> no worries
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17:22:23< Darien> does nautilus's CD burning work on OS X?
17:26:45< zizban> I have no idea...good question though
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17:44:26< vasi> Darien, maybe your ~/.kde is owned by root?
17:44:31< vasi> do other KDE settings stick?
17:46:40< Darien> yeah, other settings stick fine
17:47:38< Darien> I did chown -R dan:dan ~
17:48:46< Darien> and chmod -R o+rw
17:48:51< Darien> which was a stupid thing to do, so I undid it
17:48:57< Darien> and did u+rw instead
17:51:03< Darien> I guess I should ask in #kde
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18:22:35< akh> mmm...eternal KDE build...
18:23:17< Darien> mmm
18:23:21< lane> akh: I'm about to embark on that road. Is it true that it takes days?
18:23:29< zizban> it can
18:23:32< Darien> lane: what kind of machine do you have?
18:23:38< zizban> depends on the speed of your box
18:23:45< akh> And your OS
18:23:52< akh> Tiger saves some time.
18:23:59< Darien> GCC4 yay
18:23:59< lane> iBook 1.42 GHz, Mac OS X 10.4, 1.5 GB RAM
18:24:13< Darien> yeah
18:24:14< Darien> start it at night
18:24:18< Darien> before you go to bed
18:24:32< Darien> and put it somewhere where it's going to vent heat well
18:24:37< zizban> it'll take about 12-18 hours
18:24:44< lane> fun
18:24:51 * akh is on day 3.
18:24:57< Darien> nice
18:25:04< Darien> you  need a dual-G5 to compile on
18:25:13< lane> I just enabled unstable, and it decided to compile some stuff for me, which I didn't realize it would immediately
18:25:13< akh> Yeah.  That wouldn't suck.
18:25:23< akh> Yup.
18:25:47< lane> well, gives me something to check on while I reinstall FC2 on my MythTV box
18:25:47< akh> KDE requires certain versions of other packages, so that's probably part of it.
18:26:03< Darien> KDE depends on some silly packages
18:26:11< Darien> I now have postgres installed
18:26:24< Darien> I still don't know why
18:27:21< akh> I assume there's a good reason--unless it's just a wacko-elitist plot.
18:27:27< akh> ;-)
18:28:56< Darien> it's probably something like a program depends on a utility that requires a library that suggests a configuration tool that depends on libpgsql that is built from postgres80
18:29:25< Darien> that's one thing that used to frustrate me with Debian
18:29:34< akh> Ah, yeah.
18:29:37< Darien> deselect would pick the most inane, idiotic solutions to package resolution
18:30:06< Darien> 'well, this depends on package Q, which is provided by Z, which requires one package, and W, which requires ten that require ten each'
18:30:23< Darien> I tried to install a package once and it wanted to get over a hundred megs of crap
18:30:37< akh> eww
18:30:49< Darien> yeh
18:30:56< Darien> that was way the heck back when though
18:31:49< Darien> hmm, is there an easy way to make fink always use -pipe with GCC?
18:32:15< akh> dunno
18:32:21< Darien> hmm
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19:07:36< lane> I'm about to install xorg from source on 10.4. Would it be good to install XDarwin first?
19:07:54< akh> XDarwin.app is installed as part of Xorg.
19:08:16< lane> awesome
19:08:21-!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit []
19:08:23< lane> thanks
19:11:04< Darien> is there a big difference between XDarwin.app and X11.app?
19:12:44< newmanbe> Yes.
19:12:44< newmanbe> X11.app is made by Apple. XDarwin.app is not.
19:12:44< Darien> omg
19:12:44< newmanbe> They have a few feature differences.
19:12:44< Darien> is there a big practical difference?
19:12:44< newmanbe> I like XDarwin.app better.
19:12:44< Darien> maybe I'll compile xorg tonight
19:12:44< newmanbe> It lets you choose between rootless and full screen on start up if you want it to.
19:12:44< Darien> is there any performance difference?
19:12:44< Darien> hmm
19:12:44< newmanbe> X.org didn't take to long to compile for me.
19:12:44< newmanbe> I don't know.
19:12:47< Darien> can it run non-rootless but in a window?
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19:13:00< Darien> i.e. an 800x600 window in which X resides?
19:13:01< newmanbe> No, never heard of that.
19:13:11< Darien> neither have I
19:13:12< Darien> but it'd be nice
19:13:41< newmanbe> I wouldn't like it.
19:13:57< Darien> you wouldn't have to use it
19:14:21< newmanbe> No, but I still wouldn't like it.
19:15:02< Darien> that's kind o flame
19:15:04< Darien> of lame
19:15:07< Darien> my typing is kind of lame
19:15:40< newmanbe> Hehe.
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19:51:41< jack-> lisppaste: url
19:51:41< lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
19:52:15 * gopherd shames lisppaste for useing HTTP.
19:52:21< jack-> heh
19:52:24< jack-> what else?
19:52:49< newmanbe> What do you mean?
19:53:11< lisppaste> jack- pasted "clueless.." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11199
19:53:40< jack-> no idea how to fix this..did "fink remove libnet1.0", but that didnt help
19:53:41< newmanbe> I suppose I can look at it. Blah.
19:53:55< jack-> thanks a lot ;)
19:54:21< newmanbe> !$25
19:54:21< Melian> [$25] "Your question is in the existing documentation, so either look it up or pay the project a $25 'annoyance fee'."
19:54:33< jack-> oh wow
19:54:36< jack-> wb melian!
19:54:57< newmanbe> Melian: $25 is also you need to pay newmanbe $25 for visitng any website
19:54:57< Melian> newmanbe: okay
19:55:12< jack-> hehe
19:55:30< newmanbe> libnet1.1 conflicts with something.
19:55:38< newmanbe> Look in it's .info file to see what.
19:55:46< jack-> ok
19:56:35< jack-> Conflicts: libnet, libnet1.0
19:56:36< jack-> Replaces: libnet, libnet1.0
19:56:41< jack-> hrmz
19:56:56< jack-> still clueless :<
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19:58:19< newmanbe> Try uninstalling libnet.
19:58:41< jack-> i did..should i fink purge it instead of remove?
19:59:05< gopherd> Hmm, a lot of lag.
19:59:09< gopherd> That shouldn't matter.
19:59:40< newmanbe> That shouldn't matter.
19:59:47 * gopherd pokes the channel.
19:59:58 * newmanbe trys poking the channel too.
20:00:01< jack-> WARNING: libnet is not installed, skipping.
20:00:02< jack-> Nothing removed
20:00:02< newmanbe> There we go.
20:00:07< newmanbe> Odd.
20:00:11< jack-> yeah
20:00:25< jack-> conflicts with itself or something, d'uh ;)
20:00:57-!- Rendezvous is now known as KsiLaptop
20:01:51< jack-> uh-oh
20:02:00< jack->  nemesis conflicts with libnet1.1
20:02:08< newmanbe> What's that?
20:02:09< jack-> thats new..lets remove it too
20:02:30< jack-> appeared when i just tried to fink install libnet1.1 again
20:03:46< newmanbe> Sun Aug 28 20:03:23 CDT 2005 [warn] Insufficient power to properly help users with technical problems
20:04:48< jack-> now it works :)
20:05:01< newmanbe> Good. :)
20:05:04< jack-> odd, but whatever..thanks for your time, anyway
20:05:07< jack-> :)
20:13:29< lane> man, compiling Xorg takes a while
20:15:20< lane> started an hour ago and it's still chugging away
20:15:37< newmanbe> I was very surprised on how short it took for me.
20:17:42< zizban> I haven't tried it yet
20:19:14< Darien> pfft
20:19:23< Darien> mozilla's been compiling for the last few hours
20:19:32< Darien> and WebKit only takes ten or twenty minutes
20:19:34< Darien> or more
20:20:42< gopherd> Darien: Expect days for Mozilla.
20:21:09< Darien> well, it's only compiling the shared libraries
20:21:09< newmanbe> Though I have no idea why'd you want to compile an HTTP client.
20:21:10< Darien> 'only'
20:21:25< Darien> it's not an 'HTTP client', it's a web browser
20:21:29< Darien> and an application platform
20:21:32< Darien> and an FTP client
20:21:32< newmanbe> Same thing.
20:21:35< Darien> no
20:21:42< Darien> not the same thing
20:21:43< newmanbe> The FTP client makes it even worse.
20:31:00< zizban> I don't want an appllication platform, I want a browser :)
20:31:16< newmanbe> I want a browser too, but not a web browser.
20:31:28< gopherd> You say it b'rother!
20:32:49< zizban> heh
20:40:25< Darien> I want a web
20:40:42< newmanbe> That's just a silly thing to want.
20:40:49< zizban> yep
20:40:50< Darien> :'(
20:41:00< Darien> the Mozilla project started as a rewrite, and was meant to be a leaner, meaner, faster, cleaner browser
20:41:01< zizban> Google is building another web, according to /.
20:41:06< Darien> but then it got all bloated and shit
20:41:16 * newmanbe frowns at Darien's langauge.
20:41:23< Darien> so the Firefox project started as a rewrite, and was meant to be a leaner, meaner, faster, cleaner browser
20:41:29< Darien> sorry
20:41:42< newmanbe> Only Mr. Wacko Elitist Potty Mouth is allowed to get anywhere near that bad. :-p
20:41:59< zizban> heh
20:42:05< Darien> mais alors il a obtenu tous les enflé et merde
20:42:16 * newmanbe think he just swore in French.
20:42:21< Darien> ainsi le projet de Firefox lancé comme réécriture, et a été censé pour être un navigateur plus maigre, plus moyen, plus rapide, plus propre
20:42:31< Darien> mais alors il a obtenu tous les enflé et merde :/
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20:43:10< Darien> c'est pourquoi je suis pour toujours reconnaissant pour le safari :D
20:43:21< newmanbe> Okay, stop talking in French.
20:43:24< Darien> :(
20:43:36< Darien> I'm running out of languages
20:45:55< newmanbe> tell Application "Finder" to insult Darien
20:46:01< zizban> I only know english and some, if you speak slowly in present tense, spanish
20:46:37< newmanbe> ¡Tú eres stupido!
20:46:46< newmanbe> Like that? :-p
20:46:53< Darien> pendejo
20:46:56< Darien> ta puta madre!
20:46:57< zizban> just like :)
20:47:22< newmanbe> ¡Tienes que usar Fink!
20:47:36< newmanbe> DarwinPorts está muy malo.
20:47:38< Darien> I know English, some French, some Spanish (I'm only really good with curses and swears), some German, some Japanese, and I've forgotten all the Hebrew I ever knew
20:47:49< newmanbe> I basically forgot everything the present tense.
20:48:07< Darien> and when I was studying Russian I didn't get past the alphabet
20:48:13< newmanbe> Heh.
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21:18:49< cirdan> mm
21:18:51< cirdan> hmm
21:19:50< newmanbe> Hmm?
21:33:19< runelind> I need help writing my very first bash script :)
21:33:25< zizban> uh oh :)
21:33:33< runelind> heheheh
21:33:39< runelind> where did everyone go??
21:33:40< runelind> ;p
21:35:13< newmanbe> Sleeping...
21:36:21< runelind> basically I want to ping a host and if it is down, do something
21:37:00< newmanbe> You could set an environmental variable to the output of ping and have it tell whether it is up or not based on the output.
21:37:23< newmanbe> But I am in no condition to tell you how to do that right now...
21:37:27< runelind> well yes
21:37:40< runelind> I have written fairly complex applications in .NET
21:37:52< newmanbe> Poor soul.
21:38:00< runelind> why?  there is nothing wrong with .NET
21:38:13< newmanbe> Well, other than the Microsoft part...
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21:38:34< zizban> ya
21:38:37-!- lane [n=lane@c-24-118-139-118.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit []
21:38:47< runelind> bah, don't be so black and white
21:39:11< zizban> doesn't matter if your black or white /m.jackon/
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22:02:21< Knghtbrd> http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/08/11/fixingbugs.html
22:02:25< Knghtbrd> ^^^ good advice
22:02:37< Knghtbrd> Wish Debian had read this thing  =)
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22:38:33< jack-> runelind
22:38:44< jack-> problem solved already?
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23:31:45< vasi> either i broke the dep engine, someone else did, or a package is broken
23:31:53< vasi> i'm not sure which is preferable
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--- Log closed Mon Aug 29 00:00:01 2005

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