--- Log opened Thu Aug 25 00:00:43 2005
00:04:15< jack-> little question ;)
00:04:15< jack-> i'm trying to compile un-finked kde stuff
00:04:21< jack-> my kde+qt+all the rest is from fink
00:04:25< jack-> checking for Qt... configure: error: Qt (>= 1.42 and < 2.0) (headers and libraries) not found. Please check your installation!
00:04:41< jack-> what should i specify in --with-qt-dir= ?
00:06:01< jack-> (or should i specify --with-qt-includes= and --with-qt-libraries= instead?)
00:06:59< dmacks> Try using one of the (many) .info scattered in your /sw/fink/dists that uses those flags?
00:07:30< jack-> good idea :) thx
00:08:41< jack-> %p = /sw i guess
00:08:45< jack-> lets try
00:08:46< dmacks> Ayup.
00:12:39< jack-> hrmz..checking for qt takes longer now, but still fails
00:12:52< jack-> i guess the thing just doesnt like qt>v2.0
00:12:52< jack-> sigh
00:13:09< dmacks> Weird.
00:13:57< dmacks> Does config.log have any useful details about exactly what it's checking?
00:13:57< jack-> one sec..
00:14:33< jack-> #if ! (QT_VERSION >= 142 && QT_VERSION < 200)
00:14:48< jack-> thats it, i guess
00:14:48< jack-> sad, but oh well
00:15:28< jack-> could remove the whole qt check and try to build it anyway
00:15:28< jack-> dirty..
00:15:28< dmacks> heh yup:)
00:16:56< jack-> btw
00:17:01< jack-> is RangerRick already about to get qt4 finkified?
00:17:15< jack-> according to trolltech, its pretty much ready for use
00:17:16< runelind> someone once told me about a couple of ways to launch x apps from the dock
00:18:09< runelind> but I went and forgot how
00:19:07< dmacks> If you saw it here, you could search for "dock" in the #fink logs...
00:19:29< runelind> where are they?
00:20:54< runelind> seems the site is down :(
00:21:16< dmacks> Try '/whois cmeme'
00:23:17< gecko2> hmm, do we have a virtual package for gcc3.1
00:23:17< runelind> I remember one way was to make a script.command and put that in the dock
00:23:29< dmacks> gecko2: Yes.
00:23:29< runelind> but that launches a copy of the terminal that I then have to close 
00:23:46< gecko2> dmacks: btw, the legacy xcode is available to all devels
00:23:57< dmacks> gecko2: Thanks.
00:24:20 * gecko2 installed it
00:24:49< dmacks> runelind: What if you use Finder Get Info and set the Open With application to be 'open-x11'?
00:25:26< dmacks> The standard tools are Platypus and...um...something else that melian used to know before she died.
00:26:28< jack-> oh, melian was female? ;)
00:26:29< gecko2> dmacks: hmm, when i installed gcc3.1 from fink and later when i install apples gcc3.1, is it right, that fink will not show the virtual package for apples gcc3.1?
00:26:32< jack-> i never noticed!
00:27:29< dmacks> gecko2: As of an hour ago, the actual gcc3.1 package ceased to exist. No reason to install it if you're going to use the Legacy thing.
00:27:55< runelind> hrm...can't open with open-x11 cause os x sees it as a document rather than an executable
00:27:55< dmacks> jack-: Somehow we figured out she was female...can't remember the details.
00:28:01< runelind> I can open with XDarwin though
00:28:03< jack-> i see ;)
00:28:11< gecko2> dmacks: i installed gcc3.1 via fink weeks ago
00:28:16< gecko2> cause an package needed it
00:29:03< gecko2> and today i installed the Legacy package
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00:29:55< gecko2> but fink doesn't show me the virtual package as it should
00:30:05< dmacks> gecko2: fink-0.24.10 is just starting to propagate, which will handle this gcc3.1 mess cleanly (we hope!). There was zero warning to any devs that Apple was going to do this until they released it to the public:(
00:30:51 * gecko2 uses always the latest fink from head
00:30:55< runelind> and if I say open with xdarwin it says I don't have permissions to change the open with for just this document and that I can only set all similar docs to open with xdarwin
00:30:57< gecko2> (0.24.99)
00:31:03< gecko2> hmmm
00:31:06< dmacks> The VirtPackage is version 3.1, the actual one is 1176ish, so by standard "see the highest version" you get the actual pkg.
00:31:42< gecko2> hmm, ohh, well
00:32:33< dmacks> If you use HEAD, make sure you have fink.info.in revision 1.30 and then inject it.
00:32:51< gecko2> i injected few minutes ago
00:33:28< gecko2> currently selfupdate is running
00:33:49 * gecko2 loogs at the fink.info.in version
00:33:49< gecko2> looks*
00:34:26< gecko2> /fink.info.in/1.29/Tue May  3 09:40:07 2005// <-- ahh, that could explain it
00:34:31< dmacks> Ayup.
00:35:05< gecko2> looks like that update isn't on anon yet
00:36:21 * gecko2 merge the changes manual
00:36:44< dmacks> (When fink from 1.30 is injected, it uninstalls the actual gcc3.1 pkg if you have it installed and blocks you from installing it in the future; selfupdate removes the .info for the actual gcc3.1 pkg. That means if you want gcc3.1, the only option possible and the only option visible to 'fink' is to install the Legacy thing)
00:38:48< gecko2> yea, that ok
00:38:48< gecko2> cause i installed the Legacy already  =)
00:39:00< gecko2> hm
00:39:22 * gecko2 starts searching the 10.0 sdk....
00:45:47< jack-> kwr.cpp:319: error: `height' was not declared in this scope
00:45:47< jack-> kwr.cpp:320: warning: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `Pol' with no type
00:45:47< jack-> kwr.cpp:320: error: `int Pol' redeclared as different kind of symbol
00:45:54< jack-> grmpfz, i'll give it up
00:46:31< jack-> may someone else port that thing, not important enough to bother more :<
00:47:09< gecko2> giing up on what?
00:47:13< gecko2> v*
00:47:17< jack-> "kwindrose"
00:47:24< jack-> a widget from the kde ftp
00:47:36< jack-> just a toy, nothing serious
00:47:54< dmacks> URL for tarball?
00:48:48< jack-> ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/devel/widgets/kwindrose-0.25.tar.gz
00:50:32< jack-> the other shit in that dir looks interesting as well, but i'm not smart/experienced enough to adapt kde sources at all
00:50:42< jack-> so i'll just wait until its in dp or fink ;)
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00:54:50< gecko2> hm
00:54:52< gecko2>  i      gcc2    2.95.2-1        [virtual package representing the gcc 2.95.2 compiler]
00:54:52< gecko2>         gcc2.95 2.95.2-0        [virtual package representing the gcc 2.95.2 compiler]
00:55:17< gecko2> thats the mayor different, so we got 2 virtual packages for it?
00:55:33< gecko2> except the revision
00:56:39< dmacks> That's weird-looking! That second one should not be listed.
00:57:57< dmacks> jack-: Cute widget! Shame I accidentally nuked most of my qt3 last week:(
00:58:17< dmacks> (...and qt2)
00:58:45< jack-> d'oh :)
00:58:45< gecko2> dmacks: ahh =)
01:00:32< jack-> maybe i can get RR interested in that stuff, one day ;) he rocks
01:00:33< dmacks> Okay, the only bug here is that gcc2.95 isn't being seen correctly.
01:00:40< jack-> would love to have kvim too hehe
01:15:29< dmacks> gecko2: You want a Cc: of our discussions to fix the gcc2* mess?
01:16:35< gecko2> yes, except it's already on one of the lists
01:16:53 * gecko2 is submitted to any public mailinglist from fink
01:17:28< dmacks> Okay, we'll discuss it on -core instead of off-list.
01:19:50< gecko2> ok
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01:51:59< beniamino> is there a way to escape/prevent % expansion?
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02:16:22< madness> I've install apples X11, after removing Xfree86, and the virtual packages (system-xfree86) aren't installed and can't be installed.  If I try to install x apps from apt-get or fink commander, it wants to install xfree86 again.  What might I have done incorrectly ?
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08:11:59 * akh locates a suitable name for 0.24.10
08:12:21< newmanbe> newmanbe!
08:12:55< akh> No, but we haven't decided on a nomenclature for the 0.25.x series yet.
08:18:11< akh> So if you're the name of a version, you'd be responsible for all technical support for problems specific to that version.  ;-)
08:19:02< newmanbe> I'd delegate it all.
08:19:50< akh> Nope--no delegation allowed.   You'd just have to suck it up until the next version is released.
08:20:10< kane-xs> i suggest it's called 'akh' then
08:20:10< newmanbe> Then I'd need, hhmm, more specialer powers.
08:20:29< kane-xs> nice 'n short, easy on the keyboard, quite unique
08:20:41< akh> kane-xs: The beauty of the system is that _I've_ been naming the releases.  :-)
08:21:00-!- RangerAway is now known as RangerRick
08:21:05< akh> So if the rotation doesn't get to me....
08:21:50< kane-xs> darn! foiled again! and it would have worked too if it weren't for you pesky kids and that dog!
08:21:50 * kane-xs finds himself in the wrong cartoon....
08:21:50< akh> heh
08:21:50< newmanbe> We're a cartoon? This is just terrible!
08:21:50< kane-xs> have a scoobysnack, it'll make everything better
08:21:53 * akh wondered why my life seemed badly drawn and two-dimensional.
08:22:07< kane-xs> not to mention the poor acting of all the extras
08:22:15< newmanbe> Hey, I am not an extra!
08:22:18< newmanbe> I have a name!
08:22:24< newmanbe> I'm a named character!
08:22:26< akh> Plus the generally lame dialogue.
08:23:07< akh> "I must compile KDE, because if I don't have the latest KDE I will lose the race."
08:23:13< akh> wait..
08:23:36< kane-xs> this is turning into one of those discussions i had with a friend of mine. He plays World of Warcraft, and had been away from the game for a few weeks. He returns and states: 'RL sucks. I've dropped that quest -- bad XP, crap loot and all the women are bind on pick up and you can not vendor trash them!'
08:23:36< newmanbe> No, RangerRick must compile KDE.
08:24:00< akh> kane-xs: hehe
08:24:00< newmanbe> RL?
08:24:08< akh> Real Life
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08:24:12< newmanbe> Oh.
08:27:28< akh> OMG--the current latest xcircuit has been there for almost 3 weeks--time to see about pushing it to stable.
08:27:57< akh> (that's pretty close to the peak time between releases)
08:29:51< akh> That and I need to see if I understand the case sensitivity question on cvs.
08:29:51 * akh fires off a letter to -devel
08:30:33 * newmanbe figures he'll look at the subjects for the mailing list.
08:38:25< kane-xs> so, anyone have an idea on how popular the perl packages for fink are?
08:38:33< kane-xs> as in, how many people are using the fink perl packages, rather than installign from source (if there is any way to even measure that :)
08:39:04< RangerRick> no idea
08:39:40< kane-xs> that popular eh? :)
08:40:26< akh> The only way to tell is by postings on the mailing lists from people who've broken their systems by manually installing perl stuff.
08:41:00< kane-xs> right... so it's anyones guess then :)
08:41:10< akh> yup.
08:41:18< kane-xs> as it's only the breakers who'd post, not the good and well-behaved people that do as fink tells 'm to
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08:49:16< akh> That's right.
08:53:09< akh> mmm...guess I'll have to send out a new "call for feedback" on 0.24.10 when it comes out.
08:53:23< akh> And be specific about what feedback to post.
09:00:53< newmanbe> Or make a mailing list called devnull.
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09:07:10< akh> We _want_ feedback, though.
09:07:37< akh> fink-0.24.x is holding up moving a bunch of packages to stable.
09:08:48< newmanbe> No we don't.
09:09:08< newmanbe> Feeback creates work. Even if I don't do the work, I still don't want it! ;)
09:10:25< akh> Ah--but not having certain packages in stable leads to complaints, and complaints lead to anger, which leads to the dark side...
09:10:44< newmanbe> I suppose we can't have that.
09:11:25< akh> Think not do I.
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09:24:22 * kane-xs eyes akh's last statement... wishes there was an option for topic-wars :)
09:24:29< akh> heh
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09:25:54< newmanbe> kane-xs: The ops could have a war with themselves...
09:26:04< kane-xs> although granted, the current topic is more informative... but only by a small margin :)
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09:26:39< akh> Yeah--it's a bit dense.
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10:05:15-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis
10:05:15-!- Topic set by akh [] [Thu Aug 25 10:00:59 2005]
10:05:15[Users #fink]
10:05:15[ Airo     ] [ cls     ] [ gopherd_    ] [ kane_     ] [ lisppaste] [ pogma     ] 
10:05:15[ akh      ] [ cmeme   ] [ gzl         ] [ kbroderick] [ mdmonk   ] [ RangerRick] 
10:05:15[ armenb   ] [ das_    ] [ htodd       ] [ kito      ] [ mds_work ] [ runelind  ] 
10:05:15[ baba_    ] [ eno-away] [ jack-       ] [ knghtbrd  ] [ mee_bot  ] [ swix_     ] 
10:05:15[ BleedAway] [ Erik____] [ JosephSpiros] [ KraMer    ] [ muesli   ] [ uncon     ] 
10:05:15[ cirdan   ] [ gecko2  ] [ jtyler      ] [ KsiLaptop ] [ newmanbe ] [ usata     ] 
10:05:15[ Clef     ] [ gopherd ] [ kane-xs     ] [ Ksilebo   ] [ pnorman  ] [ zorton    ] 
10:05:15-!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 42 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 42 normal]
10:05:15-!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug  3 17:57:20 2003
10:05:15< newmanbe> Gah!
10:05:20-!- Irssi: Join to #fink was synced in 15 secs
10:05:38< akh> mmm...breeding gophers
10:05:46< newmanbe> lol
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10:08:12 * akh sends out my "specific feedback" request for feedback.
10:10:53-!- microSH [n=MicroSH@tor/session/x-e53e87094756d6cf] has joined #fink
10:11:05< akh> Hmm...if one user has a problem with a package but others don't, is it technically "Fink's problem"?
10:12:04< akh> (gnome-terminal thread on -beginners)
10:15:13< RangerRick> heh
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10:17:13 * akh is going to check on the vte version.
10:17:28< akh> The symptoms seem more like something at the user end, though.
10:18:24< akh> I get that kind of thing in Terminal.app.
10:18:30< akh> (occasionally)
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10:41:15< Darien> what's the latest version of KDE in Fink 0.7.2?
10:41:19< Darien> 3.1?
10:41:52< zizban> lemme check
10:42:40< zizban> yes 3.1.4
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11:07:02< Darien> ok
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11:15:14< Darien> hmm, no kde in fink
11:15:31< beniamino> is there a way to escape or disable % expansion?
11:15:35< newmanbe> Darien: Yes there is.
11:15:41< newmanbe> Are you using Mac OS X 10.4?
11:15:42< Darien> not in my fink
11:15:43< Darien> and yes
11:15:51< newmanbe> Darien: Are you using unstable?
11:15:53< Darien> I know there's KDE in fink, but it doesn't want to show up for me
11:15:57< zizban> kde is in unstable
11:15:58< Darien> newmanbe: likely not
11:16:07< zizban> its kde 3.4 there
11:16:11< newmanbe> Darien: Then you don't have KDE, doesn't mean it isn't there.
11:16:15< Darien> right
11:16:40< Darien> you'll notice I actually commented about KDE in fink 20 minutes ago, I know it can be gotten
11:16:45< Darien> it's just 'not in there' for me
11:17:24< zizban> your using 0.7.2?
11:17:43< zizban> if so, upgrade
11:17:59< Darien> 0.8.0
11:18:05< zizban> kde is not in the default stable distribution yet
11:18:16< zizban> you need to enable unstable to use it
11:18:36< zizban> and since it's in unstable, it will need to be compiled. Hope you have a few hours :)
11:19:02< newmanbe> zizban: Days.
11:19:10< zizban> can be
11:19:41< zizban> though on my dual 1 ghz G4 it akes about 18 hours
11:19:53< Darien> right
11:20:01< Darien> how do I enable unstable, exactly?
11:20:05< Darien> google provides me little information
11:20:40< zizban> !unstable
11:20:56< zizban> hmmm gues not
11:20:59< Darien> :/
11:21:10< zizban> go to fink.sf.net, its in the documentation
11:21:16< zizban> (I dont know how to off hand)
11:22:10< newmanbe> zizban: Melian's been gone awhile.
11:22:38< zizban> okay
11:22:52< zizban> we used to have two bots, now we have zero
11:22:54< newmanbe> We do have a replacement for the logging functions though.
11:23:01< newmanbe> zizban: cmeme is a logging bot.
11:23:10-!- You're now known as gopherd
11:23:22< zizban> ah
11:23:29< gopherd> And I am a logger bot!
11:24:37 * newmanbe thought zizban knew about gopherd.
11:24:56-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@netspace.org] has joined #fink
11:25:37< zizban> no, but now I do :)
11:25:42-!- Ksilebo_ [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #fink
11:27:28< newmanbe> And now you know it logs to gopher://newmanbe.homeunix.net/1/irclogs !
11:27:35< zizban> cool
11:28:55-!- Ksilebo^ [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #fink
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11:30:43< gopherd> Welcome back dmacks!
11:30:44< dmacks> beniamino: As is documented in the "Percent Expansions" section of the Fink Packaging Manual, %% is the way to get a literal percent character.
11:31:07-!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-f0a591a3b6b506ff] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
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11:32:44< dmacks> "Cameloparadalis"?
11:33:00< zizban> got me
11:33:25< dmacks> Sounds like a disease.
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11:33:58< zizban> heh
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11:34:49< beniamino> dmacks: thanks, i'll try it. needless to say, i _have_ read that page. just didn't see it...
11:34:51-!- Ksilebo [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #fink
11:35:28< dmacks> beniamino: Okay:) (/me didn't know if you even knew where to look for that kind of information)
11:35:30-!- Albie [n=ambs@bl5-163-132.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #fink
11:35:55< dmacks> Could someone check if the libxml2-py23/py24 from 10.3 build on Tiger?
11:36:16< beniamino> dmacks: :-)
11:42:37-!- microSH [n=MicroSH@tor/session/x-e53e87094756d6cf] has quit ["Client exiting"]
11:49:16< akh> dmacks, zizban:  "The giraffe"
11:50:03< dmacks> Ah thanks.
11:50:45< dmacks> Although I would prefer it as a parade of Caramelo:)
11:57:06< zizban> heh
11:58:36< dmacks> akh: This Samuel user seems clueful and helpful! What have we done to deserve such a gift?
11:59:54< zizban> the gods must be crazy
12:01:16< Darien> hmm
12:01:47-!- philstar [n=phil@pleiotropy.cap.ed.ac.uk] has joined #fink
12:01:48< Darien> I set up Fink with unstable as per the docs, but when I do an apt-get update, I get 'Err file: unstable/main Packages: file not found'
12:02:21< philstar> anyone else recently tried to install squid on Tiger?
12:02:26< philstar> sounds like a zoo...
12:02:27< RangerRick> Darien: there's no unstable for apt-get
12:02:39< RangerRick> unstable is only available for "fink install <foo>"
12:02:47< RangerRick> we don't have an unstable binary distribution
12:03:00< RangerRick> philstar: I tried when I first got tiger, haven't tried recently; what's the issue?  (I'm the maintainer)
12:03:26< Darien> ok
12:03:32< Darien> makes sense to me
12:03:47< philstar> it tries to install libxml2-bin and daemonic and squid simultaneously and then fails because none of them are configured
12:06:15< RangerRick> lisppaste: url
12:06:15< lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
12:07:01< dmacks> [class FastParser: """faster than SlowParser"""] Thanks!
12:07:11< RangerRick> dmacks: hah
12:13:24< akh> dmacks:  (re Samuel)  We accrued a karma surplus.
12:13:25< lisppaste> philstar pasted "apt-get install squid" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11110
12:13:53< RangerRick> hm, weird
12:14:13< RangerRick> philstar: what does "echo $PATH" print?
12:15:06< RangerRick> and do you have an /sw/sbin/update-xml-catalog ?
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12:16:17< philstar> RangerRick: /usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/opt/local/bin:/sw/bin
12:16:29< RangerRick> philstar: you should be sourcing /sw/bin/init.sh
12:16:30< RangerRick> then it would work
12:17:58< philstar> RangerRick: yep, thanks a lot!
12:18:01< RangerRick> philstar: http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#fink-not-found
12:18:02< RangerRick> :)
12:18:33< dmacks> Good thing we say 
12:18:45< dmacks> "always use absolute paths in .info" and then nobody does:/
12:19:01< RangerRick> dmacks: 'sok, this gets people to use init.sh, which does other important things  ;)
12:19:11< dmacks> True nuf.
12:19:20< RangerRick> on the bright side, it's reminded me that I need to update the squid packages to stable10 (and move them to system-openssl)
12:19:54-!- zizban [n=zeta@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit [""Arf" The dog said, pondering Plato"]
12:21:53< RangerRick> dmacks: I don't really see why system-openssl-dev should conflict/replace the fink ones, although you're right it should document how to use it better
12:22:06< RangerRick> it's not a drop-in replacement for those headers/libs, since it doesn't go in /sw/include and /sw/lib
12:22:13< RangerRick> (just like freetype219 is)
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12:22:28< dmacks> okay
12:22:46< dmacks> It looked funny, wasn't sure if it was intentional. Makes sense now.
12:24:45< lisppaste> RangerRick pasted "updated system-openssl-dev DescDetail" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11111
12:24:50< RangerRick> there, that oughta do it
12:25:37< dmacks> Looks good!
12:26:06< akh> Other than a split infinitive
12:26:29< akh> ;-)
12:27:04< RangerRick> split this!
12:27:34 * akh wants to go back and get a Ph.D. in English, but my wife won't let me.
12:27:47< dmacks> 5...4...3...2..1......ahh. Okay the impulse to google-image search has passed.
12:28:47< akh> dmacks: lbxml2-py  builds for me on Tiger.
12:28:54< dmacks> Great!
12:29:27 * dmacks doesn't have a clue how to use it, but the tests seem pretty comprehensive and it's needed by gnome:)
12:29:45< akh> hmmm...wish dpkg had tab-completion...
12:30:14< RangerRick> fink install bash-completion
12:30:20< akh> I have it.
12:30:25< dmacks> Generating the package list is prolly pretty slow:(
12:30:31< RangerRick> yeah
12:30:38< RangerRick> I've even made tab-completion for fink
12:30:43< RangerRick> but it's crazy slow the first time  :)
12:30:54< akh> Yeah--I've been spoiled by that. 
12:31:01< dmacks> There's a long-standing Fink feature-request to do cmd-completion on package-names...might finally be doable now that indexing isn't such a dog.
12:31:29< RangerRick> dmacks: yeah, I need to make a special script for bash-completion to read the index as fast as possible and spit them out
12:31:45< RangerRick> especially now that our API is getting less sucky
12:33:06< dmacks> akh: As a quick'n'dirty way, 'grep Package: /sw/var/lib/dpkg/status | cut -c10-'
12:33:50< akh> Cool--in this case I _knew_ the package name but was trying to be lazy.
12:45:31< dmacks> Wow, SF CVS is lagging so badly that syncmail skipped.
12:45:58< dmacks> "Thanks for breaking SF, RangerRick!"
12:47:22< akh> Yeah, like it was unbroken before.
12:47:45 * RangerRick didn't break it
12:48:27< dmacks> Suuuuure.
12:51:09< akh> Next you'll tell us that you aren't suppressing KDE binaries out of "wacko-elitism"  :D
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12:51:32< RangerRick> damn, you've got me  :)
12:53:30< akh> Now if somebody would break apt, we could totally cover that up--_no_ binaries for _anybody_!
12:53:59< akh> (and no binary user base, the project looks bad, ...)
12:54:30-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has quit ["leaving"]
12:57:38 * RangerRick is trying, in his exp tree  ;)
13:07:16< akh> heh
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13:55:53< akh> grrr...fscking MIT.
13:58:19-!- Albie [n=ambs@bl5-163-132.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
13:58:36< akh> They can't bother to post a duplicate of a certificate file with an extension that Keychain Access recognizes, so you have to rename the damn file rather than having it auto-open.
13:58:54< akh> I'd forgotten, and wound up using Firefox for internal stuff.
14:08:45< Darien> symlinks ftw
14:10:51< akh> ?
14:11:00< Darien> they could symlink it
14:11:08< akh> Ah, yeah.  
14:11:08< Darien> ln -s file.ext file.xte
14:11:14< Darien> then updates would work
14:11:20< Darien> or they could find a file extension that everyone likes...
14:12:23< akh> Yup.  Or they could just duplicate the 2k file.
14:12:35< akh> I mean, really...
14:13:02< akh> I had to go to a separate page for Safari instructions, anyway, and then linked _back_ to the common file URL.
14:16:50< Darien> hah
14:17:10-!- shreyas [n=sshreyas@59.92.135.160] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
14:18:49 * akh is just complaining because I had to go one extra step.
14:21:03< Darien> one extra step times a million people is a million extra steps
14:21:06< Darien> and that's pretty unreasonable
14:23:46< akh> Yeah--though here it's probably 1000.
14:23:56< akh> Still bad.  :-)
14:33:34< Darien> well
14:33:38< Darien> that's almost a million
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15:12:51< Darien> yay compile
15:12:55< Darien> I need an xgrid cluster
15:12:57< Darien> goddamn fink
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15:18:55< dmacks> akh: Looks like our -beginners karma has plumetted:(
15:19:15< RangerRick> eh?
15:20:18< dmacks> User was explaining how he was manually installing stuff into /sw and having great success. I told him that was a Bad Idea for fink and we couldn't help him if he had trouble. He said "Okay, I know", then asked for help compiling something on this wacked-out system.
15:20:36-!- vasi [n=vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink
15:20:40< Darien> heh
15:20:52-!- hennker [i=flullup@dsl-213-023-254-143.arcor-ip.net] has joined #fink
15:20:58< vasi> RangerRick, the AppBundles code is yours right?
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15:23:32< vasi> anybody at all familiar with AppBundles?
15:23:43< RangerRick> vasi: yeah
15:23:46< RangerRick> there isn't too much to it  :)
15:24:06< vasi> RR, any reason why we use the PostInst and PreRm scripts for the symlink, rather than putting them in the .deb?
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15:28:54< RangerRick> vasi: my thought process was then the users can move the fake app bundle around without making the dpkg database "wrong"
15:29:16< vasi> hmm, ok i guess that makes sense
15:29:32< vasi> a user just submitted a variantized package where only one variant needs an AppBundle
15:29:43< vasi> so i have to duplicate AppBundles in the .info
15:31:14< dmacks> Make .app for the other variants that submits positive feedback to a random package.
15:34:21< vasi> lol
15:34:43< vasi> oh crap....the montreal LUG is supposed to meet tonite
15:35:18< vasi> and somebody started a flame war about whether the cafe's owners are too politically radical for us to meet there
15:35:52< vasi> so now there are two meeting sites, to split the already-kinda-small membership
15:36:07 * vasi feels like slashdot just hit real-life
15:37:22< dmacks> Jump ahead of the line a yell "first coffee!!!!1!1!!1!!!!"
15:37:56< dmacks> Mmm...cairo-1.0 released...
15:38:10< RangerRick> sweet
15:38:22< RangerRick> so did someone implement inheritedbuilddepends yet?  :)
15:38:29< RangerRick> you know what we need?
15:38:31< dmacks> ...with a specific notice in the release notes to *not* capitalize "cairo" unless it starts a sentence.
15:38:35< RangerRick> PkgConfig BuildDepends  :)
15:38:53< RangerRick> read a .pc file and add everything in it to builddepends
15:39:07< dmacks> Also .la.
15:39:11< RangerRick> yeah
15:39:26< RangerRick> hm, that wouldn't work though
15:39:32< RangerRick> would have to know the shlibs -> dev mapping
15:40:01 * dmacks proposed it on the Wiki already. drm thuoght it would lead to a rather unstable build situation (but /me thinks not much worse than AuthShlibs)
15:40:21< RangerRick> AuthShlibs?
15:40:27< RangerRick> not familiar with that
15:40:31< dmacks> Aut_o_Shlibs
15:40:36< vasi> uh...AddShlibs or whatever its called
15:40:40< dmacks> Yeah...that
15:40:41< vasi> TheSin's project
15:40:54< vasi> which is unforunately still kinda borked
15:41:27< dmacks> There's also a potential for catch-22 (auto-generated by .pc/.la is not completely compatible with the original IBD proposal).
15:42:02< vasi> maybe we should post a RFC to -devel re IBD
15:42:04 * dmacks has a fairly working implementation a different approach entirely.
15:42:14< vasi> find out wtf people want from it
15:42:57< vasi> propose some way we like it, but then add one totally ridiculous feature to the RFC
15:43:11< vasi> so then ppl argue about the silly feature, and the rest gets accepted by default :-)
15:43:18< dmacks> excellent:)
15:43:44< dmacks> "InheritedBuildDepends" vs. "BuildDependsInherited"?
15:44:37< vasi> MultiButtonMiceSuckBuildDepends? :-P
15:45:41< Darien> vasi: are you in Montreal?
15:45:49< vasi> yup
15:46:05< Darien> crazy
15:46:10< Darien> I've never been to the LUG here
15:46:20< Darien> only the Slashdot meetup, once, which was a somewhat dismal failure
15:46:40< vasi> heh, i was at two of those...they went ok
15:46:58< Darien> I've only been to the one, and only one other person showed up
15:47:06< vasi> ack
15:47:57< Darien> so is the LUG worth going to?
15:48:28< Darien> or is it just smelly geeks verbally masturbating over the latest kernel patches?
15:48:30< vasi> last time we got about a dozen folks
15:48:54< vasi> well some discussion was really lame, other stuff was fairly interesting
15:49:01< Darien> hrm
15:49:07< Darien> is it tonight? where at?
15:49:16< vasi> er, there's the sad part
15:49:20< vasi> it's at TWO locations
15:49:27< vasi> Cafe Utopik was the original choice
15:49:29< Darien> wtf
15:50:15< vasi> but them somebody got pissed off at the radical politics of utopik's management, and decide to hold a "neutral" meeting at Central Station
15:50:20< vasi> *sigh*
15:50:21< Darien> Gare Central? 
15:50:35< Darien> where's Cafe Utopik?
15:50:56< vasi> near UQAM i think
15:51:35< vasi> i dunno how anybody intends to meet at the station, it's kinda big
15:51:57< vasi> yeah, guy in #mlug is predicting 3-4 for utopik :-(
15:52:09< vasi> pathetic
15:53:02< vasi> last week Hubert Figuiere did a talk on writing multi-platform software, which was pretty good...he's the one who did the Aqua port of Abiword
15:53:15< vasi> (unfortunately the talk was in french, and mine needs some work)
15:55:34< Darien> neat
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16:18:51< vladuz976> can anyone help me. i had someone access my box and changed the passwd now i am unable to log in
16:19:06< vladuz976> i did init=/bin/bash and i can run passwd root
16:19:18< vladuz976> but will that change the admin password or the root?
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16:25:34< dmacks> vladuz976: 'passwd _USER_' changes the password for the user _USER_
16:26:49< dmacks> On OS X, the usual meaning of "admin password" is "the normal password for the user who has admin privleges", not "the root password"
16:27:33< vladuz976> yeah root is disabled by default, so admin is like a sudoer?
16:27:40< dmacks> Correct.
16:28:21< vladuz976> but i need to know the current one, which i don't
16:29:31< RangerRick> I think KDE's done, other than kdevelop, which I'm finishing up now
16:29:49< RangerRick> if anyone's feeling adventuresome and wants to try my exp tree, I'd appreciate it
16:29:56< RangerRick> but I understand if you're not  ;)
16:31:26< dmacks> vladuz976: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106156
16:33:31< vladuz976> is there a way to enable root without the sudoer password then?
16:34:49< zizban> hmmm...netinfo needs an admin password
16:35:16< vladuz976> maybe i'll just reinstall
16:35:23< vladuz976> but then i'll lose everything
16:35:59< zizban> have you tried netinfo?
16:36:10< vladuz976> no
16:36:35< zizban> its in Applications--Utilities
16:36:47< zizban> use your password to unlock it then you can add a root user
16:41:36 * dmacks very confused about what accounts' password(s) you currently have.
16:42:42< vladuz976> dmacks, i forgot my sudoer password and don't have root enabled
16:43:02< dmacks> And the URL I mentioned...?
16:43:33< vladuz976> if i knew the admin yes i could use the url
16:43:42< zizban> okay I'm confused
16:44:04< zizban> to unlock netinfo in mac os x, via the gui, you only need your password
16:45:11< dmacks> That doc even covers cases where you have no login ability at all.
16:45:13< vladuz976> but i am the only user. so i am the admin/sudoer
16:45:19< zizban> yes
16:45:44< dmacks> (...which is what your situation is, right?)
16:48:52< vladuz976> yes
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17:36:43< dmacks> exit
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17:38:42< cirdan> yoyo
17:38:46< cirdan> hey all
17:38:49< cirdan> i'm back
17:38:51< cirdan> :-)
17:38:56< cirdan> whatdimiss?
17:44:48-!- Melian [n=blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink
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17:57:57< newmanbe> cirdan!
17:58:02< newmanbe> Melian doesn't work.
17:58:06-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has joined #fink
17:58:12< gopherd> Welcome back dmacks!
17:58:22< newmanbe> Melian: test
17:58:22< Melian> No, newmanbe, you're not online any more.
17:58:30< newmanbe> Nevermind, she does work.
17:58:34< dmacks> Melian...is alive...??
17:58:42< newmanbe> And so is cirdan!
17:59:00< dmacks> Whatever:)
17:59:39< dmacks> Is this a quick casino-military break, or are you done both?
18:00:16< cirdan> done
18:00:26< cirdan> gotta finish sleaning up stuff tomorrow, but back home how
18:00:28< cirdan> now
18:00:33< cirdan> still no laptop
18:00:42< cirdan> it was on hold for parts from the 18th till today
18:00:45< cirdan> i hope i get it back soon
18:00:46< newmanbe> Melian: logs is also gopher://newmanbe.homeunix.net/1/irclogs/freenode/fink
18:00:47< Melian> newmanbe: okay
18:00:49< cirdan> :'-(
18:01:12< cirdan> !ga
18:01:15< cirdan> heh
18:01:38< gopherd> cirdan: Wrong syntax
18:02:05< cirdan> !lart gopherd 
18:02:06 * Melian cats /dev/urandom into gopherd's ear
18:02:11< cirdan> mmm
18:02:37< cirdan> so what i miss?
18:02:56< dmacks> Apple released gcc2 and gcc3.1 for Tiger.
18:03:04< cirdan> really?
18:03:15< cirdan> 10.3 out yet/
18:03:32< dmacks> (With zero advance notice to any developers/seeds.)
18:03:48< dmacks> 10.3?
18:03:52< cirdan> 10.4.3
18:03:55< cirdan> sorry
18:03:59< dmacks> Ah, not yet.
18:04:19 * cirdan should just say $MNIOR.3
18:04:21< cirdan> :-)
18:04:45< dmacks> gnome is coming along.
18:04:51< cirdan> ahh
18:04:57 * cirdan hops in shower...
18:05:03< cirdan> keep talking, i'm listening...
18:05:04< cirdan> ;-)
18:05:04< newmanbe> And as you propably saw, this channel has another logger bot.
18:06:39< dmacks> RangerAway gave us an easy way to force linking to Apple's openssl, and people have started to merge foo/foo-ssl into foo-combined that has no License problem.
18:13:36< cirdan> so we will have no more openssl packages?
18:13:47< cirdan> and reply on apple for timely and secure updates?
18:14:49< dmacks> We'll still have 'em, I imagine some folks won't want to migrate their pkgs ("because Apple is so prompt with updates")
18:15:59< dmacks> It leaves us a quick route to undoing all this in the future (update fink's openssl, swap the deps, throw everything into crypto if we have to, until apple gets their shit together)
18:16:47< dmacks> There's been no official pronouncement of policy or even announcement of this ability yet.
18:20:36< newmanbe> dmacks: There is a gopher://newmanbe.homunix.net , and that's good enough. ;)
18:21:03< newmanbe> s/hom/home/
18:22:31< dmacks> Can't remember if you were still here when akh gave us a wiki.
18:25:02< dmacks> And the guy who invented the first electronic synthesizer died.
18:25:15< dmacks> I think that's everything:)
18:32:45< runelind> dang it
18:32:47< runelind> missed rr again
18:35:52-!- akh_ [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink
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18:36:41-!- akh_ is now known as akh
18:38:11< dmacks> bbl
18:38:12-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has quit ["leaving"]
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18:52:36< runelind> bah lame
18:52:40-!- akh_ is now known as akh
18:52:45< runelind> I can't drag /sw/bin/gaim to the dock
18:52:58< akh> You can make a wrapper for it.
18:53:16< runelind> oh ja?
18:56:13< runelind> how? :)
18:56:43< newmanbe> Magic!
18:56:52-!- KsiLaptop [n=Obelisk@d14-69-19-223.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:57:01< runelind> I'm just a muggle :(
18:57:11< akh> I've never done it myself, but I think one way is to make up a shell script.
18:57:32< newmanbe> !shell scripts
18:57:56< akh> Then what?
18:58:17< newmanbe> Then you, umm, abandon HTTP.
18:58:51< akh> ummm...no
18:59:02< gopherd> Traitor!
19:07:25< akh> heh
19:09:32-!- kbroderick [n=kbroderi@rich-dsl6-236.greenmountainaccess.net] has quit []
19:10:40 * newmanbe writes a karma script for irssi and makes akh akh--.
19:11:16-!- akh is now known as akh--
19:11:22-!- akh-- is now known as akh
19:20:23-!- baba_ [n=baba@YahooBB220041000122.bbtec.net] has joined #fink
19:30:22-!- citizen_0 [n=user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
19:44:44-!- zizban [n=zeta@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
19:49:24< akh> grrr...build failures
19:50:04< newmanbe> I can give you some if you'd like.
19:50:35< zizban> heh
19:50:43< zizban> better than just being a failure :)
19:52:51< akh> I guess so--I emailed the wacko-elitist maintainer.
19:53:17< gopherd> Mr. Wacko Elitist Potty Mouth to you.
19:53:38< newmanbe> Oops.
19:53:47< newmanbe> s/gopherd/newmanbe/
19:54:02 * newmanbe detatches the other irssi screen so he doesn't confuse himeself again.
19:54:15< akh> Actually, it'd be pretty cool if gopherd would say that automatically.
19:54:16< zizban> heh
19:55:46< zizban> it should say "hello mr whacko elitist" whenever he logs on :)
19:56:00-!- RangerAway [n=ranger@cpe-024-168-176-124.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:56:14< akh> Makes me miss FinkBot.
19:56:53< newmanbe> akh: Well, I think you know Perl; feel free to write a script for irssi. :)
19:56:54< zizban> me too
19:57:02< akh> newmanbe: Think again.
19:57:04-!- citizen_0 [n=user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
19:59:28< akh> Perl know I not.
20:00:31< newmanbe> Oh yeah, you wrote Fink Documentation for your .signature.
20:00:40< newmanbe> Or something like that.
20:00:41< akh> Yah
20:00:51< zizban> I know a little perl, not enough to write an irssi plugin
20:01:15< akh> And I don't think you want me trying to learn it when I'm getting drunk.
20:03:55-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink
20:04:41< zizban> telecommute today?
20:05:30< zizban> or is married life driving you to drink? :)
20:05:57< akh> Nah, bad day, need to unwind.
20:06:05< zizban> ahhh
20:06:26< akh> My wife actively encourages me to drink.
20:07:36 * zizban wonders why :)
20:08:04 * newmanbe does too.
20:08:09< akh> heh--she can't deal with me when I'm wound.
20:09:04< zizban> so, you got married drunk?
20:09:05< zizban> :)
20:09:27< akh> Nah--though when we got engaged _she_ was totally wasted.
20:09:29< akh> :-)
20:09:33< zizban> heh
20:10:21 * akh refrained from using "wacko-elitist" in my bug report for taglib.
20:10:26< akh> I was tempted...
20:11:19< zizban> I would have been tempted as wekk
20:11:36< gopherd> akh: Mr. Wacko Elitist Potty Mouth.
20:11:36< akh> It was kind of implied when I said "apparently my compiler isn't good enough for it"
20:11:59< akh> Yah--I was going to refer to the package, not the packager, though.
20:12:32< zizban> But _we_ know
20:12:42< gopherd> akh: You must use the title to descirbe anything that is in the least connected to Mr. Wack Elitist Potty Mouth.
20:13:12< akh> Next time.
20:13:38< akh> Maybe I'll have a failure with my next package from Mr. WEPM
20:13:39< lisppaste> dmacks pasted "WTF?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11132
20:13:48< zizban> heh
20:14:35< zizban> if I knew C, I'd be able to grasp what is wtf about that
20:14:35< akh> We should just give up on the whole GNOME thing.  ;-)
20:14:51< zizban> drop support? sure. 
20:14:57< zizban> I'll direct the angry mob your way
20:15:01< dmacks> Two errors about "&"; no such character anywhere close:)
20:15:56< dmacks> Wow, WEPM isn't even Away...he must *really* be away. Or else training us to avert our eyes from his presence?
20:16:04< akh> dmacks: which is line 425?
20:16:16< zizban> both I say
20:16:27< dmacks> The one marked "line 425"
20:16:50< akh> ah.  /me is drunker than I thought
20:17:14< dmacks> heh. Then by all means start upgrading gnome. Y'ain't gonna make it any worse:)
20:17:53< zizban> Help Wanted: One person to maintain Gnome. Must be into pain and suffering and be able to take flames from angry users in stride
20:18:03< akh> And there's not another "process_read_scrollkeeper", right--that would be silly.
20:18:25< dmacks> yelp, the help viewer that everyone keeps bitching is missing, is gonna be crypto, so we *could* just make all gnome stuff depend on it (which makes sense to do) and put the whole damn mess into crypto >:>
20:18:36< zizban> sure
20:18:49< akh> And then have no binaries and there'd be more bitching.
20:18:55< dmacks> Bingo.
20:19:01< akh> bitching -> anger -> dark side
20:19:31< dmacks> But evil will always triumph because good is dumb.
20:19:35< akh> heh
20:19:55 * akh is already pretty close to the DS now after Debian unstable hosed my KDE config.
20:20:12< dmacks> I'm tempted to say stderr is misdefined, but what the fsck kind of program misdefines stderr???
20:20:15< zizban> so we need Darth Vader to maintain gnome?
20:20:26< zizban> he could use his choking thing on stoopid end users
20:20:38< akh> zizban: Yup.  "I find your lack of faith in my maintainership disturbing."
20:20:51< zizban> heh
20:20:54< dmacks> heh
20:22:22< dmacks> Well there is always one of us to screw something up and a newbie to follow our lead as a best-practices...
20:22:41< zizban> sure 'nuff
20:22:48< akh> heh
20:23:32< akh> We're so screwed when Ranger* burns out and gives up maintaining KDE.
20:23:51< dmacks> We'll just set up fink-kde-core
20:24:00< akh> > /dev/null :-)
20:24:44< akh> Or maybe by that time somebody will figure out KDE/Aqua
20:24:51< zizban> heh
20:25:15< zizban> "You want KDE? you maintain it, buddy!"
20:25:30< akh> That'll shut 'em up.
20:25:49< dmacks> Well it hasn't thus far...:/
20:25:54< akh> True.
20:25:56< zizban> we can hope
20:26:21< akh> What we need is a script to generate .info files.
20:26:28< dmacks> Ahh...hope: the last refuge before one's delusions are mercilessly crushed by a massive onslaught of reality.
20:26:52< akh> That way maybe the "roll your own" people can actually contribute useful stuff.
20:27:10< akh> If it weren't for that pesky .patch voodoo...
20:27:50< dmacks> And all the flags. And dependencies. And fink-dependent hacks. And ./configure over-rides.
20:28:51< akh> Yeah, those too.
20:29:41< akh> grr...and when upstream _does_ actually recognize OS X, they put in hardcoded /sw
20:30:06< dmacks> Or jswhit puts in /fink
20:30:53< akh> heh--yeah, or that.
20:30:57< zizban> heh
20:31:11< akh> At least it wasn't a subtle, hard-to-find error
20:31:13< zizban> those pesky packaging guidelines
20:32:03< dmacks> Thinking of which, does anyone have a bind9 .deb that fails validator (either released fink or HEAD)?
20:34:42< zizban> sorry
20:36:10< gopherd> dmacks: You're done asking if people have .deb's for everything! 8)
20:36:29< dmacks> (I guess if it passes that'd be interesting to know too)
20:37:04< zizban> Yes he is. Last night it was something else
20:37:10-!- drm [n=drm@ip68-108-245-119.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #fink
20:37:32< gopherd> Welcome back drm!
20:37:45< drm> thanks, gopherd
20:37:54< dmacks> !wb drm
20:37:54< Melian> Welcome back drm, o lonely traveller amongst the TCP/IP packets of chaos.
20:37:55< gopherd> No prob'.
20:38:01< dmacks> Look who else is back:)
20:38:10< newmanbe> Hehehe.
20:38:17< drm> Melian! O genki desu ka?
20:38:21< zizban> a bot o thon
20:38:24< baba_> ha
20:39:06< drm> hi baba_
20:39:17< baba_> hi drm
20:39:26< drm> ohayoo, in your timezone i guess
20:39:55< baba_> yep, 10.40
20:44:23< drm> anybody hear any complaints about the new fink and its effect on gcc3.1?
20:44:40< zizban> can't say I have
20:44:51< dmacks> Nope. (the gcc2 bug I mailed to -core is an orthogonal issue)
20:45:12< drm> dmacks: right
20:47:47 * drm is now going to work on gettext
20:48:12< drm> change the splitoffs slightly, and change the build strategy to the one recommended by the upstream author
20:48:33< drm> which should mean no expat needed for bootstrapping, among other things
20:48:40< akh> ah
20:48:42< drm> and i'll update to the latest while i'm at it
20:49:03< dmacks> Sweet! Can we have it as libgettext3new, just so we can force all users to rebuild everything yet again?
20:49:11< akh> heh
20:49:11< drm> hehe
20:49:18< drm> why of course...anything for you, dan :)
20:49:53< dmacks> heh
20:50:44< dmacks> If we ever do get a new packagename for gettext (new lib major version or whatever), should try to resolve that annoying re-exposure of iconv symbols.
20:51:21< drm> can you explain that to me?
20:52:04< drm> (because i'm gonna work on libiconv too...trying to make sure it builds correctly under all circumstances)
20:52:31< dmacks> It's approximately like this: gettext links to iconv (or is it vice versa? anyway) and they both define public symbols of the same name.
20:53:18< drm> yeah, its kinda both, which makes things very confusing
20:53:26< drm> did the old gettext not do this?
20:53:30< dmacks> Using the common "-liconv -lintl" pair causes a linker warning about duplicate symbol names in approximately every package we have:)
20:53:35< dmacks> The old one did the same thing.
20:54:00< drm> ok...i guess we can't do anything about it, though, without changing the lib name, as you point out
20:54:24< dmacks> It could be as simple as a missing "extern" attribute, or one of them declaring it as non-public.
20:54:46< drm> surely they can't be designed this way...we must be doing something wrong
20:54:46< dmacks> Yeah, 'cuz who knows who has what linked that uses one or the other supplier of the symbol.
20:55:22< dmacks> jfm or martin or someone diagnosed it a long time ago on....-core maybe, or -devel?
20:55:23< drm> ok, i will look at this issue too, to be prepared for the future
20:55:54< drm> dinner time...bbl
20:55:56< zizban> Back to the future!!
20:56:01< dmacks> So we can't do much now without risking breaking stuff. But if we had a new packagename, we'd force recompiling against a backdrop of only one provider of the symbol.
20:56:09< drm> right
20:56:18< dmacks> Enjoy dinner.
20:56:27-!- drm [n=drm@ip68-108-245-119.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:56:50 * dmacks off to file a third bugzilla of the day "What would you expect to happen when you follow them?" ==> "The compiler should not crash"
20:57:08< zizban> ouch
21:04:12< jack-> any kde freak around atm?
21:04:21< jack-> i wonder how i could make arts suck less
21:04:42< jack-> it plays what it should, but always half a second of crapnoise before..
21:04:43-!- RangerRick [n=ranger@user-0ce2ldj.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #fink
21:04:53< dmacks> Nice summoning!
21:04:55< jack-> RangerRick! :)
21:04:57< jack-> indeed
21:04:57< zizban> speaking of kde freaks....
21:04:58< jack-> lol
21:05:06< jack-> must have been telepathy :)
21:05:07< RangerRick> hola
21:05:12< RangerRick> summon?
21:05:22< jack-> <jack-> any kde freak around atm?
21:05:22< jack-> <jack-> i wonder how i could make arts suck less
21:05:22< jack-> <jack-> it plays what it should, but always half a second of crapnoise before..
21:05:23< jack-> ;)
21:05:35< jack-> just said that and you popped up
21:05:59< RangerRick> jack-: ah, no, arts sucks
21:06:08< RangerRick> the only fix that I'm aware of is to wait for kde4 when they rip the f**ker out
21:06:12< jack-> ok
21:06:18< jack-> yeah :p
21:06:19< RangerRick> unless you want to write a working CoreAudio arts plugin for me  :)
21:06:32< jack-> i would, if i could :)
21:06:38< zizban> they are getting rid of arts?
21:06:53< RangerRick> zizban: I sure as hell hope so
21:06:54< RangerRick> they want to
21:06:58< zizban> cool
21:07:02< zizban> I hate arts as well
21:07:07< RangerRick> arts is a clean design with a bad implementation
21:07:12< baba_> i hate music and arts
21:07:15< RangerRick> there's so much overhead that it's impossible for it to not be latent
21:07:22< baba_> i love science
21:07:33< zizban> science, history all good
21:07:37 * zizban is an english major
21:08:14-!- hennker [i=flullup@dsl-213-023-254-143.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["leaving"]
21:08:24 * akh wants to get a PhD in English.
21:08:34 * RangerRick is preparing to release kde 3.4.2
21:08:41< RangerRick> hopefully tomorrow
21:08:43 * zizban is thinking about a MA in Divinity
21:08:54 * jack- <3's RangerRick for his kde porting efforts
21:08:59< baba_> Divinity... sounds good
21:09:04< akh> RangerRick: Cool--that way I can build it all weekend.
21:09:10< RangerRick> akh: hehe
21:09:10< zizban> Priesthood :)
21:09:18< RangerRick> 3.4.2 is looking really nice
21:09:19< baba_> maybe i will try Zen
21:09:24< akh> zizban: Not the candy ?
21:09:25< RangerRick> got rid of the ssl/non-ssl split
21:09:30< RangerRick> got amarok 1.3
21:09:33< RangerRick> all kinds of goodies
21:09:38< jack-> finally :)
21:09:43< akh> w00t
21:09:49< jack-> that ssl/nonssl split sucked so hard
21:10:15< RangerRick> yeah
21:10:20< zizban> heh
21:12:15< RangerRick> last thing to test is kdevelop
21:12:24< jack-> wee :)
21:12:25< RangerRick> I'm totally disabling the java plugin, it's freaky weird
21:12:32< RangerRick> can't get it to compile
21:12:40< RangerRick> used to be able to, but even then it was weird hacks
21:12:52< RangerRick> for some reason, the part where they use exceptions really freaks apple's linker out
21:12:54< zizban> who wants to develop in java anyway
21:13:26< RangerRick> I rather like java actually
21:13:28< dmacks> Anyone wanna rip apart mozilla to put the rendering components in a separate non-crypto pkg?
21:13:29< RangerRick> but eclipse is way more suited
21:13:42< RangerRick> dmacks: yowza
21:13:53< zizban> sure is and no ouch
21:13:53< akh> oy
21:15:41< dmacks> RangerRick: It's used by the core help facility in all of modern gnome.
21:16:43< dmacks> RangerRick: It's used by the core help facility in all of modern gnome.
21:16:46< dmacks> Oops
21:17:12< RangerRick> hehe
21:17:15< akh> So is it used by the core help facility in all of modern gnome?
21:17:18< akh> ;-)
21:17:56< dmacks> No. Why do you ask?
21:19:11< jack-> i really like "bluefish" and "quanta"..pretty suitable since i'm doing lots of php stuff atm
21:19:24< jack-> but having kdevelop definitely wont hurt :)
21:20:38< zizban> the K apps I use a lot in KDE are Konsole and Kword
21:20:42< zizban> both rock
21:20:46< RangerRick> yeah
21:20:57< jack-> konsole rules, yeah
21:20:58< zizban> Kword is actually a fairly nice replacement for Framemaker
21:21:03< runelind> RangerRick: is k3b included in kde somewhere?
21:21:32< RangerRick> runelind: it's in kde-extra-gear somewhere I think
21:21:42< RangerRick> been meaning to package some of that stuff
21:22:18< runelind> hrm, I'm seeing window styles and wallpaper images
21:22:26< RangerRick> one of those I started trying to port and it had so much linux-specific stuff I didn't bother
21:22:50< runelind> I'm looking for an alternive to toast
21:23:11< jack-> get xcdroast
21:23:15< jack-> it works very nicely
21:23:38< runelind> aha, that's the name I was looking for
21:23:45< jack-> :)
21:23:54< runelind> I kept asking here, and people were just giving me funny looks :)
21:23:59< zizban> Firestarter is very nice
21:24:07< zizban> freeware you can find it on MacUpdate
21:24:24< jack-> firestarter isnt x11 though, right?
21:24:31< zizban> no
21:24:36< zizban> you want an X11 one?
21:24:42< runelind> nah, just something that burns :)
21:24:43< jack-> i'm starting to dislike cocoa stuff meanwhile
21:24:54< jack-> x11 is so much faster on my ancient crapmac ;)
21:24:54< zizban> try Firestarter
21:25:51 * dmacks read that as "crapomatic"
21:25:59< zizban> me too :)
21:27:07< runelind> will firestarter burn dvd layouts?
21:27:51< zizban> I dunno
21:28:02 * runelind wonders if it will burn dvd's at all
21:28:05< runelind> lets find out
21:28:23< zizban> cool
21:28:44< runelind> denied ;p
21:28:59< zizban> ouch
21:29:51< runelind> I haven't found anything as good as nero
21:30:55< jack-> nero isnt free though :)
21:31:09< jack-> i really like xcdroast, it works very well with my pioneer
21:31:19< jack-> and thanks to nrg2iso, i can even burn nero images
21:31:56< zizban> oh boy
21:36:00< runelind> jack-: will it burn dvd's too?
21:36:18< jack-> yes
21:36:21 * zizban reads Fink's wikipedia entry
21:36:49< jack-> pretty flawlessly, all speeds, supports even burnproof
21:37:33< jack-> and its possible to overburn cds/dvds too, something toast isnt capable of
21:38:11< jack-> i was pretty surprised when i bought some 90min cdr's and toast just failed to do it properly
21:38:13< jack-> heh
21:39:21< runelind> does it need plugins for DVDs?
21:39:26< jack-> no
21:39:56< jack-> just needs a security key, if you want to master video dvds
21:39:56< runelind> well here goes
21:40:57-!- shreyas [n=sshreyas@59.92.139.180] has joined #fink
21:43:01< runelind> there is no way to do alt-tabbing in x apps is there?
21:43:16< runelind> like get a window up where you can scroll between apps
21:43:38< akh> Sure--KDE has it.
21:43:46< runelind> "X-CD-Roast seems to not be installed"
21:43:52< runelind> akh: but if you're just running apps rootless
21:44:04< akh> Ah--that' different, yes.
21:44:45< runelind> jack-: you using it with tiger?
21:44:47< RangerRick> looks like it may not be too hard to port k3b
21:44:48< jack-> akh: whats the name of the kde tool that does that?
21:44:56< jack-> runelind: nope, 10.3.9
21:45:05< runelind> ah, that's probably the difference
21:45:19< dmacks> "All you gotta do" is find the right wm:/
21:45:19< akh> jack-: I don't remember right off the top of my head.
21:45:33< jack-> runelind: want to try my xcdroast binary?
21:45:50< runelind> jack-: that's ok, I'll just stick with toast for now
21:45:54< jack-> ok
21:45:55< runelind> maybe there is a new version out
21:45:58< runelind> thanks though
21:46:04< jack-> there is
21:46:08< jack-> toast 7, just released few days ago
21:46:20< zizban> the one with copy protection
21:46:31< jack-> i didnt even install it yet
21:46:34< jack-> no idea :)
21:47:19< dmacks> metacity, cwm, sawfish, xfce all claim to have window-cycling ability.
21:47:28< jack-> kwin doesnt?
21:47:49< dmacks> Wouldn't be hard to write it into almost any other one either (that was the from the first page of google hits:)
21:48:48-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has quit ["leaving"]
21:50:05-!- baba_ [n=baba@YahooBB220041000122.bbtec.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
21:50:45< jack-> wow, gkrellm is cute with all those themes
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 26 00:00:44 2005

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