--- Log opened Wed Aug 24 00:00:43 2005
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05:37 < joab> this is a bit off-topic i guess but does anyone know how to get the sources panel in iPhoto? like the one in iTunes. iPhoto just shows a window with my pictures in it and not the panel on the left side like it's supposed to
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05:39 < JesseW> Is http://www.finkproject.org down for anyone else?
05:40 < JesseW> hm, well fink.sf.net works, so feel free to ignore this question...
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08:15 < newmanbe> Everything cirdan runs seems to be slowly falling apart.
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09:29 < drm> pogma: did you have a nice vacation?
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09:30 < pogma> drm: Hi, yeah, not bad
09:30 < pogma> drm: looks like 10.3 still needs libofx :(
09:30  * drm has moved to california for the next 10 months or so
09:31 < pogma> drm: Whereabouts?
09:31 < drm> pogma: what's libofx?
09:31 < pogma> drm: never mind :)
09:31 < drm> santa barbara until christmas, then berkeley
09:32 < pogma> cool
09:32 < drm> so yesterday i was trying to set up a wireless connection in my new place, using my "airport express"
09:32 < drm> but various weird things were happening
09:33 < drm> i hadn't used it in about a year, and it seemed to have forgotten all of its settings -- the airport admin util showed it to be completely unconfigured
09:33 < akh> ick
09:33 < drm> i put in a password, and defined the network and so on, and updated the airport software as it suggested
09:33 < drm> but, strangely, when i rebooted it the lights didn't show that
09:34 < drm> EVENTUALLY, i figured out that i had just configured an Airport Express belonging to one of my neighbors :)
09:34 < pogma> lol
09:34 < drm> put a password on their network, in fact... my password!
09:34 < drm> (i took it off)
09:34  * newmanbe concideres relearning enough CVS to move drm.
09:35 < akh> drm:  hehe
09:35 < newmanbe> I wonder if they noticed.
09:35  * akh set my router up to use MAC addresses.
09:35 < drm> ok, so having demonstrated that this silly cable modem works with a wired network, i will now try wireless again
09:35 < drm> bbl
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09:36 < akh> And they gave him tenure.  ;-)
09:36 < akh> (jk)
09:39 < akh> Heh--somebody sent a drive-by message to -core requesting that gettext be upgraded from 0.10.40 to 0.14.5.
09:40 -!- zizban [n=zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
09:40 < akh> They had the reply-to as -core, so I can't even tell them "we're trying to get 0.14.3 out the door and you want 0.14.5?  How about some help if you're so interested?"
09:42  * akh noticed that a lot of people are jumping on the "link to system OpenSSL" bandwagon.
09:42 < zizban> easier that way I guess
09:43 < akh> Yup--and I guess we can actually distribute binaries of those packages again.
09:44 < zizban> no more kde-ssl. RangerAway will be happy
09:44 < akh> Yah-he was the one who instigated this.
09:44 < akh> For this very reason.
09:44 < akh> (binaries)
09:45 < zizban> cool
09:45 < akh> And less hassle.
09:45 < akh> Nothing wrong with that.  :-)
09:46 < zizban> true
09:46  * akh should check if any of my neighbors' networks that I can see are open...
09:46 < akh> Not for malicious use, of course.  ;-)
09:47 < zizban> of course :)
09:47 < newmanbe> I can get a few on the first floor.
09:47 < newmanbe> But not from the second floor.
09:48 < zizban> I'm in the rurals--I get nothing
09:49  * akh usually sees a couple of spots (either floor)--lemme check today's findings...
09:50 < newmanbe> I have problems getting a single from a base station only one floor and no walls away.
09:50 < akh> heh
09:50 < akh> 3 different neighbor hubs--two on each floor
09:51 < newmanbe> I think there's some sort of magic around here.
09:51 < newmanbe> Radio stations are all hard to get.
09:51 < newmanbe> So are TV stations.
09:51 < zizban> heh
09:53 < akh> hmmm...1 open, 1 has a password, and 1 is MAC address restricted.
09:53 < akh> And the open one has way worse signal than I get.
09:53 < akh> So I'll play it legit.
09:54  * akh has a hard time with one radio station that I like--it used to be worse at my prior house.
09:54 < akh> It's much better on cloudy days.
09:54 < zizban> what station is that?
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09:55 < akh> WBUR
09:56 < akh> Sometime's it's just not convienient to listen online.
09:56 < newmanbe> I know why!
09:56 < newmanbe> There's no _Connaction_.
09:56 < newmanbe> Connection
09:56 < akh> heh
09:57 < zizban> heh
09:58  * akh likes the "fast scanpackages" in fink-0.24.99
09:58  * zizban does too
09:58 < akh> (and as an aside, I like being able to call it that rather than "cvs fink"--much less confusing)
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10:02 < zizban> yup
10:02 < akh> That way the lusers know that I have a better fink than they do.  :-P
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10:06 < zizban> heh
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10:34  * zizban thinks the solaris installer asks way too many questions
10:36 < akh> "Have you, or anyone you know, ever been a member of the Communist Party?"
10:36 < akh> "Do you plan to put pr0n on this computer?"
10:36 < akh> Those kind of questions?
10:39 < zizban> ya
10:39 < zizban> something like that :)
10:42 < akh> That seems a bit nosy, yes.
10:43 < pogma> not overboard for the modern US which requires all visitors to give fingerprints and have their picture taken
10:43 < akh> Good point.
10:44 < pogma> privacy is gone, long live its memory
10:44 < akh> On that note, /me goes to grab a beer.
10:45 < akh> Gotta love a telecommuting day
10:46 < pogma> cheers :)
10:46 < akh> man this broken file association thing is getting old.
10:47 < zizban> heh
10:48  * akh wonders if I'd rather try reinstalling Debian or go with Ubuntu...
10:49 < zizban> reinstall debian
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10:54  * akh may not even do that--I'll try some apt-get install --reinstall voodoo first.
10:56 < zizban> sounds like a plan
10:57 < akh> lets see how it goes. 
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11:08 < akh> meh
11:08 < zizban> didn't work?
11:08 < akh> Yeah--apparently I can't get the version of kdelibs-data I need.
11:11 < zizban> that sucks
11:13 < akh> Maybe I can--I'll double-check
11:14 < akh> Or maybe I can revert this to stable.
11:18 < zizban> maybe
11:20 < akh> Or I'll just have to wait it out--for reasons that escape me, only kdelibs* got updated to 3.4.2, in unstable and the 3.3.2 version of kdelibs-data went by-bye
11:20 < akh> Breaking my file associations, menu, ...
11:21 < akh> And if I update kdelibs3 it removes a whole ton o' packages, including stuff I actually use.
11:23 < akh> Silly me--I didn't have the stable trees turned on.
11:23 < akh> (and I tried to edit /sw/etc/apt/sources.list)  ;-)
11:24 < akh> aww--crap.  I can't revert it to stable easily.
11:26  * akh will just have to wait it out then.
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11:32 < zizban> heh
11:32 < akh> Beats reverting to stable in this case.
11:33 < akh> At least the "run command" dialog works.
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11:34 < zizban> yes
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11:35 < akh> Makes me feel like I'm running twm or something like that, though.
11:35 < akh> ;-)
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11:38 < zizban> heh
11:38 < zizban> ah, twm....ick
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11:43 < akh> And I can't even blame RangerRick for my broken KDE, either.  
11:43 < newmanbe> Yes you can.
11:43 < newmanbe> zizban: I happen to like twm.
11:43 < newmanbe> But I also happen to not like using X11.
11:43 < akh> Well, yeah, but it wouldn't be fair--the problem was even due to a binary release.
11:43 < zizban> yeah
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11:43 < akh> Which as we know he's trying to suppress.  :D
11:44 < zizban> I try to use a minimal (non ugly) wm whenever possible
11:44 < newmanbe> I try to not use X11 whenever possibly.
11:45 < akh> newmanbe: Yeah, but on a Linux box, there's not much choice.
11:45 < newmanbe> Yes there is.
11:45 < newmanbe> I rarely using X11 with GNU+Linux.
11:45 < newmanbe> 'Cept when I need to use Gimp.
11:46 < zizban> I use irc the most on my non mac boxes
11:46 < akh> And I need to edit Microsoft Office  files and view postscript and PDF...
11:46 < akh> So a GUI is a must.
11:46 < newmanbe> All very low activities on the social scale.
11:47 < akh> Yeah, but important for the $JOB
11:47 < newmanbe> Pfst.
11:47 < zizban> yepper
11:47 < newmanbe> Variables are very easy to change in bash and perl.
11:47 < newmanbe> What language are you using?
11:47 < zizban> The job I interviewed uses Windows only. When I mentioned I own a Mac they said, "No here likes macs"
11:48 < akh> Well--I do docs in LyX--and I'm trying to move my graphics over to gri
11:48 < akh> That borders on text-only, except for actually seeing my work.
11:49 < zizban> heh
11:49 < zizban> true
11:49 < newmanbe> I wonder if I can use screens inside of a screen.
11:49 < akh> I can do them on my Mac in native mode--but it's less comfortable to use a laptop than a desktop.
11:49 < zizban> I'm waiting for the next version of Publicon from Wolfram
11:49 < akh> newmanbe: Try it--I think it complains at you.
11:50 < gopherd> Nope, didn't complain.
11:51 < akh> interesting
11:51 < gopherd> But to use the screen inside the screen you have to do c-a a [command] as apposed to c-a [command].
11:54 < akh> a
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12:08 < gopherd> Welcome back dmacks!
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12:46 < dmacks> Oops...glib2 upstream just released a new version to fix the _environ mess, but with a typo so that now it doesn't even compile at all.
12:47 < akh> Owie.
12:47  * dmacks won't bother updating fink's pkg
12:48 < akh> It _just_ fixes _environ ?
12:48 < dmacks> It improves a few language translations, adjusts wording in some documentation.
12:48 < akh> Ah
12:50 < newmanbe> Hmm, how does one add things to @INC?
12:50 < newmanbe> I think that's like $PATH, but for Perl.
12:50 < dmacks> 'use lib'
12:50 < newmanbe> I have trying to add scripts for gopherd to add features.
12:50 < newmanbe> So it can be more than just a humble loggin bot.
12:51 < newmanbe> Use lib?
12:51 < dmacks> Lower-case "u"
12:52 < newmanbe> I am not tring to compile anything.
12:52 < newmanbe> I am trying to load a module into irssi.
12:52 < newmanbe> The file it needs is in /sw/lib/perl5/5.8.1/darwin-thread-multi-2level/ but it doesn't look there (apparently).
12:52 < akh> dmacks: you might be amused by the thread on -beginners concerning the gnome menu stuff (once it hits gmane)
12:52 < newmanbe> It looks in /sw/lib/perl5/5.8.1/darwin-thread-multi-2level/darwin .
12:52 < dmacks> You asked "how do I asdd to @INC?" I'm telling you "'use lib' is the perl command to add paths to @INC"
12:53 < newmanbe> Ah.
12:53 < dmacks> OR else you can adjust PERL5LIB env var.
12:54 < dmacks> ('use lib' would be manually insered into the perl script you're running)
12:54 < dmacks> For example, /sw/bin/fink says:    use lib "/sw/lib/perl5";
12:54 < newmanbe> Okay.
12:54 < dmacks> akh: /me waits....
12:55 < akh> Somebody claimed to have rolled their own 2.10
12:56 < dmacks> Several people have claimed that...they've all been even brokener than what we have now.
12:56 < akh> heh
--- Log opened Wed Aug 24 13:01:58 2005
--- Log opened Wed Aug 24 13:05:47 2005
13:07:42-!- gopherd [n=irclogge@tor/session/x-88d0630ec7f8dc09] has joined #fink
13:07:42-!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.9: Pavo
13:07:42-!- Topic set by akh [] [Tue Aug 16 11:25:01 2005]
13:07:42[Users #fink]
13:07:42[ Airo     ] [ das_    ] [ htodd       ] [ knghtbrd   ] [ muesli    ] [ shres    ] 
13:07:42[ akh      ] [ dk0r    ] [ jack-       ] [ KraMer     ] [ newmanbe  ] [ swix_    ] 
13:07:42[ armenb   ] [ dmacks  ] [ JosephSpiros] [ Ksilebo    ] [ pnorman   ] [ thomasjo_] 
13:07:42[ BleedAway] [ eno-away] [ jtyler      ] [ lisppaste  ] [ pogma     ] [ uncon    ] 
13:07:42[ cirdan   ] [ Erik____] [ kane-xs     ] [ mdmonk_away] [ RangerRick] [ usata    ] 
13:07:42[ Clef     ] [ gecko2  ] [ kane_       ] [ mds_work   ] [ regeya    ] [ viyyer   ] 
13:07:42[ cls      ] [ gopherd ] [ kbroderick  ] [ mee_bot    ] [ RLD_osx   ] [ zorton   ] 
13:07:42[ cmeme    ] [ gzl     ] [ kito        ] [ msachs     ] [ runelind  ] 
13:07:42-!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 47 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 47 normal]
13:07:47-!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug  3 17:57:20 2003
13:08:40-!- Irssi: Join to #fink was synced in 74 secs
13:10:51 * dmacks just did.
13:11:08< akh> Good
13:11:16 * akh didn't finish.
13:19:48< dmacks> Is the XCode Legacy thing public, or just for seed?
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13:26:23< akh> Hmm...dunno
13:26:51< akh> hope I didn't violate the NDA
13:31:05< dmacks> I like people complaining in public about how xcode2.2 has broken something or is otherwise behaving unexpectedly.
13:31:13< akh> heh
13:31:40< akh> Yeah
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13:40:44< RangerRick> heh, in Kingdom of Loathing, they hav a haiku chat channel where you're only allowed to talk in haiku
13:41:04< RangerRick> http://paste.lisp.org/display/11082
13:41:04< dmacks> Neat!
13:41:55 * dmacks wonders if we can restrict the mailing lists to hi-clue.
13:43:16< RangerRick> hehe
13:43:41< RangerRick> it actually won't post to the channel unless you write something in the form: foo / bar / baz
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13:55:01< dmacks> Why does gok try to set compatibility_version on its executables?
13:55:18< RangerRick> werd
13:55:27< RangerRick> because you need to know!
13:55:55< dmacks> *phew* At least that half of the battle is done.
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14:03:57 * akh considers filing bug reports in haiku
14:04:12< dmacks> What is XInputExtension?
14:07:21< akh> http://freedesktop.org/~jg/roadmap.html#mozTocId989568 
14:09:18< dmacks> Thx. In practical terms, do our various x11 pkgs have it?
14:11:15< akh> Sounds like a question for the maintainer.
14:11:23< RangerRick> I believe so, but I'm not sure if/how it is functional
14:11:31< dmacks> Okay.
14:11:34< RangerRick> the lib being there doesn't mean it's integrated with OSX's device-handling
14:12:35< akh> My reading was that it was mostly for serial devices.
14:12:52< lisppaste> dmacks pasted "gok-1.0.5 error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11084
14:13:26< RangerRick> guess not then  :)
14:13:29< dmacks> I'm trying to diagnose that, figured may as well solve the earlier warnings before tackling the later crash in case one affects the other.
14:22:27< akh> Wonder if it's not in Apple's X11.
14:22:41 * dmacks uses 10.3/AppleX11
14:28:04< akh> hmmm...suspicious
14:29:23< dmacks> Meh, nothing depends on gok, so I guess it can wait.
14:31:46< akh> yah
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16:27:50< gecko2> dmacks Is the XCode Legacy thing public, or just for seed? <-- me checks
16:28:09< gopherd> dmacks: host not found
16:29:01< gecko2> damn
16:29:19< gecko2> /exec route dmacks -interface en1
16:29:32< newmanbe> AirPort?
16:30:19< gecko2> yea, mayby =)
16:30:37< gecko2> alternativly i could try en2
16:30:45< gopherd> en1: interface not found
16:30:50< gopherd> en2: interface not found
16:33:04< gecko2> here they exists both
16:33:21< gopherd> No they don't. Give up and try Gopher! ;)
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16:47:57< gecko2> ... =)
16:48:33< newmanbe> What is your en2 (not that it exists) anyway?
16:49:41< gecko2> my additional ethernet card in one of my pci slots
16:49:41< newmanbe> Sigh, no expansion in the eMacs. :(
16:49:52< zizban> I was thinking of getting a mini
16:50:07< gecko2> thats an G4 867Mhz Dual
16:51:43-!- RangerRick is now known as RangerAway
16:52:59< zizban> I bet it's a lot faster than your G4
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16:57:32< gecko2> yea
16:57:40< gecko2> but it's ok for me
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17:09:39< runelind> anyone have a register.com account in here?
17:10:07< zizban> I have a google jabber account, does that count?
17:15:52< runelind> no
17:17:53< zizban> d'oh!
17:19:23< runelind> what would be freaking sweet is if they integrated gtalk with glocal
17:19:39< runelind> so you could just click on something in google local and it would call that number
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18:48:07< zizban> to download an entire directory is it wget -r?
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18:50:00< drm> hello
18:50:11< zizban> hey drm
18:50:25 * drm seeks someone who knows VirtPackage.pm
18:50:38< drm> hey zizban
18:51:27< zizban> not me :)
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19:28:41< drm> hey vasi
19:28:41< vasi> howdy
19:29:05< vasi> what's new?
19:29:05< drm> i've tested all the gcc 3.1 packages
19:29:05< drm> ready to make a change, but
19:29:32< drm> for some reason, in the code we defer to a "real" gcc package if it exists, and don't do the virtual thing... do you understand why?
19:31:04< newmanbe> Do drm and vasi know of my newest coolest project?
19:31:13< drm> nope
19:31:32< gopherd> gopher://newmanbe.homeunix.net/1/irclogs/freenode/fink/2005/08
19:31:56< drm> vasi: actually, it looks like you made this change :)
19:32:51< drm> (version 1.90 of VirtPackages.pm)
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19:33:44< vasi> drm, i made the change
19:34:20< drm> newmanbe:  mac os x does not recognize "gopher://" URLs
19:34:28< gopherd> Yes it does.
19:34:34< vasi> yeah, the problem was that the virtual package with version 3.1 would be considered the "current" package even if you had version 1175 installed
19:34:34< gopherd> If you have an appropriate client.
19:34:51< drm> well, safari doesn't
19:35:15< drm> and that's what the safari error msg says
19:35:15< vasi> so fink and apt both saw "hey, there's a newer version than what we think is currently installed" and try to upgrade it
19:35:19< gopherd> Then it's a very bad client.
19:35:28< drm> vasi: but how could anybody have had a virtual gcc3.1 before yesterday?
19:35:36< vasi> drm, if you update Panther -> Tiger
19:35:56< dmacks> [is this XCode Legacy thing public or only seed?]
19:35:56< drm> vasi: does it leave /usr/bin/gcc3.1 behind?
19:36:07< drm> dmacks: public
19:36:07< dmacks> Okay.
19:36:20 * drm knows this because he no longer has a seed
19:36:20< vasi> drm, yes it does leave the old 3.1 around
19:36:20< dmacks> d'oh
19:36:54< drm> vasi: OK, well, I think what we want to do now is to deprecate the fink-provided gcc3.1
19:36:54< vasi> dmacks, see my comment re: gok?
19:37:14< drm> vasi: but its version number is too low
19:37:26< drm> so i'm gonna add "epoch" to gcc-*
19:37:42< dmacks> vasi: Yeah. I'll try to work on it...sometime. It's a leaf on the whole fink dependency tree so no hurry:)
19:37:42< vasi> you mean removing gcc-3.1 from the repo?
19:37:42< drm> don't see any way around that
19:38:11< vasi> drm, careful if you do that...some parts of fink may refer to the version of GCC
19:38:21< drm> i'll probably remove gcc3.1 also, but as martin pointed out, somebody who installs the new XCode Legacy thing will want to have apple's, not have fink "update" it
19:38:29< vasi> it should be fine, but just check
19:38:29< drm> vasi: ok
19:38:29< drm> what parts of fink?
19:38:49< vasi> uh, mebbe in bootstrap? i don't remember where i saw it
19:38:57< vasi> wait, you're removing the real or virtual packages? (or both?)
19:39:00 * drm hates having to fix things in a rush when apple makes an unanticipated move
19:39:13< vasi> "i'll probably remove gcc3.1 also", "also" is in addition to what?
19:39:16 * drm REALLY HATES this
19:39:26 * vasi passes drm some chocolate pity
19:39:48< drm> vasi: we want apple's new gcc3.1 to be considered more recent than the fink one
19:40:22< vasi> drm, right...your use of "also" just confuses me
19:40:43< drm> vasi: which will require a new fink release, but the up side is that 0.24.9 was about to go to stable, so the new 0.24.10 can go to stable pretty quick
19:41:02< vasi> you said "deprecate the fink-provided gcc3.1" and "i'll probably remove gcc3.1 also"
19:41:03< drm> vasi: the "also" referred to possibly removing the existing fink gcc3.1 package in addition to upping the version on the virtual one
19:41:10< vasi> ah ok :-)
19:41:15< vasi> sorry for the mixup
19:41:23< dmacks> http://www.acme.com/heartmaker/heartmaker.cgi?text1=thx&text2=apl&color=Pink&r=1742083308
19:42:15< drm> but even if we remove the fink package, lots of folks will still have it, so we need the virtual version to be bigger
19:42:27< drm> dmacks: :)
19:42:45< drm> anybody see a way to make the version of the virtual package bigger, without using epoch?
19:43:52< vasi> well we could just arbitrarily declare the apple version of gcc3.1 to be <some high number>
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19:44:28< drm> well, the code takes the version to be things like 3.1 and 3.3 and 4.0, which is fairly sensible
19:45:09< vasi> what about people who already have the fink package installed? do we want them using a differen gcc3.1 from the one ppl installing apple's version are using?
19:45:23< drm> the real problem is that the fink package installs /sw/bin/gcc3.1, which will always override /usr/bin/gcc3.1
19:45:52< zizban> how do you reconfigure an installed package via apt-get or dpkg?
19:45:52 * drm just thought of another solution: have fink-0.24.10 do Conflicts/Replaces on gcc3.1-1175
19:45:52< dmacks> Can we rev-up the VirtPackage to exceed %r of fink's?
19:46:55 * dmacks can't remember what %v-%r we currently use here:(
19:46:55< drm> dmacks: current code is written for all gcc's at once, so we would need to rev-up everything... that is what the epoch would do
19:47:08< drm> gcc3.1-3.1-1
19:47:08< drm> for example
19:47:42< drm> zizban: "man dpkg" might tell you
19:48:04< zizban> thanks
19:48:13< dmacks> Ah...so the "high" %v of the actual gcc3.1 pkg is a problem (hence need for epoch).
19:48:21 * dmacks joins same page with rest of y'all.
19:48:46< drm> right
19:48:53< drm> i just made it the build number
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19:49:59< drm> vasi: explain to me again what was happening to upgrade folks? the virtual package was seen as greater or less than the fink package?
19:50:55< dmacks> Why aren't we using build number for the VirtPackage? (doesn't solve the problem at hand, but seems strange the current way)
19:51:33< drm> too much work to extract that data, i guess
19:52:54< drm> if we use Conflicts/Replaces and couple it with removing the fink gcc3.1 package from the database, then people who upgrade will find the old gcc3.1 package disappearing, right?
19:55:01< dmacks> (seems like build should be either %r or part of %v...we're already parsing the --version output anyway...)
19:55:55< drm> yeah
19:57:20< dmacks> Which of those two seems better?
19:57:46< dmacks> Does anything anywhere Depends:gcc3.1 ?
19:57:58< drm> i don't want to make a change as drastic as that, for an emergency band-aid that we don't have time to test
19:58:12< drm> nothing should depend on gcc3.1, only build-depend
19:58:26 * dmacks puts build-number inclusion on back burner.
19:59:16< drm> although, after my compiling experiences today, i think things are a *bit* less urgent than martin makes them out to be
19:59:16< dmacks> Conflicts/Replaces seems like it would work.
19:59:54< drm> yeah, i'm gonna try it shortly... however, i think i need to travel home and visit the market first, which will take like 1.5 hours
20:00:22< drm> (10 mile bicycle ride, in case you are wondering, followed by market-visiting)
20:01:04< drm> so if anybody has any great ideas in the interim, please email them :)
20:01:05< dmacks> Gotta make sure the versioning there hits only the fink current gcc3.1 pkg (I doubt we'd ever bring it back though)
20:01:32< drm> yeah, i would use =, not >
20:02:19< dmacks> We're up to %r=6 but not all users may have updated to the current one.
20:02:54< drm> so maybe <= ?
20:03:08< dmacks> Yeah. If user's written his own more advanced gcc3.1 pkg...well that's his own fault:)
20:03:10< drm> hmm, that's not good if it invokes the virtual package
20:03:31< dmacks> Oo, good point.
20:03:53< dmacks> epoch=1 in the VirtPackage also?
20:04:34< drm> i was hoping to avoid the epoch, with this suggestion, since vasi made me nervous about the version being possibly used elsewhere in the code
20:04:41< dmacks> ...except the %e=1 VP won't exist until the new fink is installed, so that won't help anyway. nm
20:05:07< drm> it might be rev.6 because of stuff from my exp directory, not becuase we ever released other revs to users
20:06:08< dmacks> Ayup, public 10.4T has only ever had %r=6
20:06:18< drm> so i think = will be fine
20:06:32< dmacks> Yeah.
20:06:43< drm> ok, off to bike home... i'll check back later
20:06:51< dmacks> adieu
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20:19:59< dmacks> Anyone have a .deb for libsoup-ssl (and -shlibs) from unstable, could lisppaste or send me the 'dpkg -c'?
20:34:55< dmacks> ne'ermind...built it myself.
20:36:08< zizban> see? give a man a fish...oh never mind :)
20:36:17< gopherd> lol
20:36:37< newmanbe> Oops.
20:36:39< newmanbe> Hmm, gopherd is having a lot of lag.
20:36:50< newmanbe> s/gopherd/newmanbe/
20:44:39< dmacks> If you gave me a fish, I'd eat it. If I could catch my own, I'd eat one and hit you with the second:)
20:45:00< newmanbe> I'd do the reverse.
20:45:18< newmanbe> After all, he'd probably poison it.
20:45:30< dmacks> I thuoght about that, but was afraid he'd retaliate by stealing the one I was gonna eat.
20:45:53< dmacks> Also, /me di'nay wanna fight on an empty stomach.
20:45:55< gopherd> I'd protect you dmacks!
20:46:23< newmanbe> fink install automagicgardenwaterer
20:46:36< zizban> heh
20:46:39< dmacks> ha
20:46:59< newmanbe> Plants need to much water. 'Specially in doughts.
20:47:09< dmacks> Wassamatter? /sw/bin/rain-dance isn't working?
20:47:19< newmanbe> Hmm, funny spelly I am today.
20:47:38< newmanbe> Nope. :(
20:48:25< dmacks> Yeah, but /me wonders "why not just *eat* the doughnut?"
20:56:29< runelind> hrm, I'm trying to find libnss3.so
20:56:46< runelind> logic dictates that I should already have it with gaim and mozilla or firefox
20:56:46< runelind> but I don't seem to have it
20:56:50< runelind> only libnss3.dylib
20:57:24< dmacks> Maybe you're using something that assumes every platform uses .so for shared libs?
20:57:27< newmanbe> locate doesn't find it for me.
21:01:45< runelind> dmacks: can I haxor it into using libnss3.dylib?  (what are dylib's other than an abbreviation for what I assume are dynamic libraries)
21:01:45< runelind> I'm trying to compile gaim-encryption
21:01:45< dmacks> That'd be my first thing to try.
21:01:45< runelind> just copy/link the files?
21:01:45< dmacks> Linux .so covers two types of files; on OS X, one of those is .dylib while the other has no naming requirements (though is often .so (to distinguish it from a "real" .dylib) or is .dylib (to be uniform)). Clever and annoying, eh?
21:01:45< zizban> enlightenment 17 is slick
21:05:48< newmanbe> We should get CIA in here.
21:06:11< newmanbe> So then we could all know in near real-time that dmacks just commited something!
21:06:24< newmanbe> No idea why'd that be useful...
21:06:36< newmanbe> But that's never stopped Microsoft!
21:16:03-!- newmanbe [i=[U2FsdGV@tor/session/x-613c29f86243c0d7] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:17:13< dmacks> newmanbe: CVSROOT says we have a ciabot active...not sure where its notifications go. Talk to RangerAway
21:17:29< gopherd> CVSROOT says a lot of things...
21:19:06< gopherd> Great, I have one connection with 40 lag (units?) and another connection that doesn't connect.
21:19:42< gopherd> Now 14.41, that's better.
21:20:03< dmacks> irssi gives lag in seconds.
21:20:09< gopherd> I figured as much.
21:20:17-!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-271e9ef5804b882a] has joined #fink
21:21:56< newmanbe> Now I have to relearn where the windows all are in irssi!
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22:03:47< vasi> drm, sorry i went AWOL before
22:03:55< drm> np
22:03:57< vasi> lemme catch up to the logs
22:04:20< drm> i had to leave for a while anyway (biking home and having dinner)
22:04:30 * drm is on the west coast these days
22:06:42< vasi> oh cool
22:06:51< vasi> alright, so the upgrade problem
22:07:14< vasi> the VirtPkg is always *lower* than the real one (3.1 << 1175)
22:07:48< vasi> and it used to be that the VirtPkg *overwrote* the real one
22:08:00< vasi> (in fink's internal DB, and in apt and dpkg too)
22:08:44< vasi> so basically, fink and apt thought the user didn't have the real one installed, even if he did
22:08:49< drm> yeah
22:09:08< drm> well, we no longer want the real one
22:09:20< drm> want users to install apple's legacy thing instead
22:09:23< vasi> instead, they thought the lower version was installed, and would try to upgrade to the newer one every single time someone did 'fink update-all' or 'apt-get upgrade'
22:09:26< vasi> yeah, ok
22:09:40< drm> i'm about to try the "conflicts/replaces" idea
22:09:46< vasi> so you wanted to do a Conflicts/Replace thing?
22:10:02< vasi> what pkg will C/R on gcc3.1?
22:10:14< drm> fink
22:10:25< vasi> oooh sneaky
22:10:30< drm> yup
22:10:55< vasi> probably do << 50 or something?
22:11:06< vasi> er wait, >> 50
22:11:08< drm> i'm doing an exact version... use =
22:11:29< vasi> eugh....what if user hasn't upgraded to latest one yet?
22:11:56< drm> there has only ever been one that was released to users
22:12:06< drm> earlier revs were in my exp directory
22:12:22< vasi> (btw, please comment any changes to core-maintained info files...they're horribly undocumented)
22:12:29< vasi> drm, ok great then
22:12:48< vasi> and then we epoch-bump the virtpkgs, right?
22:12:56< drm> yeah, i know, the documentation is bad...i'll try to do better
22:13:01< drm> vasi: no need, really
22:13:20< vasi> hmmm
22:13:27< drm> so long as we remove the gcc3.1.info file from the database
22:13:27< drm> oh
22:13:44< drm> what about gcc3.1.deb?
22:13:44< drm> hmmm
22:14:14< vasi> it would refuse to install because of the conflicts, no?
22:14:14< drm> sure
22:14:37 * drm tries, to make sure
22:15:37< drm> yup
22:15:53< drm> and once the .info file is gone from the database, fink is not checking version numbers on .debs, i guess
22:16:20< drm> (without removing the .info file, "fink update-all" wanted to put back the old gcc3.1, and failed
22:16:20< vasi> apt will still see it
22:16:40< vasi> but i don't think that matters, since it conflicts with an essential package
22:17:01< drm> yeah
22:17:05< drm> it won't get installed, but apt might complain
22:17:17< drm> about not being able to resolve dependencies and stuff
22:17:42< vasi> hmmm....well try doing 'apt-get upgrade gcc3.1'
22:19:20< drm> for a good test, i need to run "fink scanpackages" first (i just remembered)
22:19:59< vasi> i would like to move apt-ftparchive into the main apt package at some point, so that scanpackages is less painful
22:20:16< vasi> but it would require putting db4 in base
22:21:18< drm> well, that's not completely out of the question, if the results are worth it
22:22:57< vasi> well it would allow us to always keep the apt db up to date, so users don't get weird errors for lack of scanpackages
22:23:08< vasi> and it would mostly-solve an extant bug (where apt wants to upgrade every package from the bindist)
22:24:01< vasi> er, s/db4/db43/
22:24:06< drm> i think that bug gets solved if all of your debs have been built with fairly recent versions of fink
22:24:46< drm> we fixed the problem of writing the wrong sizes to the deb files at some point
22:26:20< drm> what trees does fink scanpackages run on?
22:26:20< vasi> drm, BUT apt has to know about your debs
22:26:26< vasi> otherwise it's not solved
22:26:35< vasi> scanpackages scans all the trees in your fink.conf
22:27:16< vasi> but the non-apt-ftparchive version doesn't do any caching, so it's slow as %$@$!
22:27:41< drm> ok, local/injected is in my list but apt is complaining about no Packages file
22:27:41< drm> even though i ran fink scanpackages
22:29:53< drm> dang it, it says it wrote 1 entries to that file
22:30:28< vasi> huh
22:30:32< vasi> weird
22:31:03< drm> d'oh... first i have to do sudo apt-get update so that apt-get sees it
22:31:57< drm> it didn't touch gcc3.1 during an upgrade
22:32:07< drm> as you said, it probably spotted the conflict on fink
22:32:10< drm> oh, damn
22:32:18< vasi> ?
22:32:19< drm> not a good test -- it upgraded fink
22:32:32< drm> i had a 0.24.99.cvs deb :/
22:32:40< vasi> heh, woops
22:33:12< vasi> install the new fink first, silly :-)
22:33:32< drm> no, that was on branch_0_24, so it had a lower version number
22:34:13-!- newmanbe_ [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-f0a591a3b6b506ff] has joined #fink
22:34:50< drm> ok, i killed that deb, downgraded fink, and am running fink scanpackages again
22:37:38< drm> vasi: did you hear me tell this great story yesterday about setting up my Airport Express in my new place?
22:37:53< vasi> nope
22:37:58< vasi> at least i don't remember if i did
22:38:04 * vasi reads the logs
22:38:16< drm> i was kind of puzzled, because when i connected to it using the Airport Admin Utility, it seemed to have forgotten all of its settings
22:38:33< drm> well, it had been turned off for like a year, so maybe this was not completely surprising
22:39:02< drm> so i updated the software, named the base station and network, and put passwords back in (same ones i had used last year)
22:39:23< drm> but when i rebooted the basestation, the lights on it didn't change...
22:39:23< drm> hmmm...
22:39:46< vasi> heh, cute
22:39:46< drm> further anoalies in the next 10 minutes led me to the conclusion that i had just configured somebody ELSE's airport express :)
22:39:57< vasi> (just saw the punchline on the logs)
22:40:31< vasi> don't they come with a default password or something!?
22:40:47< drm> no, its completely open when you turn it on
22:40:48-!- dmacks [n=dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink
22:41:25< drm> i went back and took the password off of my neighbod's network, but i can't un-password-protest his or her base station
22:42:13< drm> vasi: ok, now apt-get "keeps back" gcc3.1 when you ask it to upgrade
22:42:16< drm> which is good
22:42:29< vasi> okie doke then
22:43:05< drm> i'm gonna release this, and move it to stable pretty soon...0.24.9 was ready for stable anyway
22:43:32< runelind> wasn't there an x11 dvd burning proggie in fink?
22:44:51-!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-271e9ef5804b882a] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:45:19 * dmacks reads logs and agrees with solution, FWIW
22:45:19< drm> thanks
22:46:27< dmacks> runelind: 'fink apropos dvd' has a coupla likely hits.
22:47:52< dmacks> vasi: Would Tie::IxHash be useful to have in fink core? The new validator uses a cheap/not-very-general imitation of it, but if it'd be useful other places I could switch over to using a not-hack.
22:48:24< dmacks> (But if no other need, the hack works for what I need it for:)
22:48:49< vasi> i don't know the validation code well, where should i look?
22:49:20< dmacks> I'm just asking conceptually "does that module seem generally useful enough to bother importing it to core?"
22:50:18< vasi> and being jewish, i'm answering with a question <g>....what's it good for?
22:50:30< dmacks> hehe:)
22:51:50< dmacks> It's a normal hash, with the added feature of the keys being ordered like a list. So you can push'n'pop, and iterate through the keys in the order they were created.
22:54:14-!- drm [n=drm@ip68-108-245-119.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:54:14< vasi> yeah, i'm trying to figure out why you need it here...it looks like you're just generating a list of error messages, why have the hash?
22:55:12< dmacks> If several files all lead to the same warning, I print the warning once followed by a list of all offenders.
22:55:44< dmacks> The bigger question would be "why care about the order":)
22:56:02< vasi> that too
22:56:13< runelind> I wasn't aware that apropos was a fink keyword
22:56:21< vasi> runelind, now you know :-)
22:56:26< runelind> I've always used fink list
22:56:35< vasi> well it depends if you know the exact name or not
22:56:52< runelind> wasn't there a frontend for cdrecord?
22:56:54< dmacks> I wanted some amount of predictability, and figured that "order of detection" was closer to the current behavior than sort().
22:58:15< dmacks> We've often looked for more severe or likely-to-affect-other-stuff errors first, an ordering that allows user to see the majorer problems first.
22:58:20< vasi> i'd actually rather sort them by severity, if we ever get the warning/error thing sorted out
22:58:38< vasi> uh what you said :-)
22:59:42< vasi> something like   error_msg $msg, $prio, @files;  
22:59:50< vasi> and then print from highest to lowest prio
23:00:34< vasi> maybe even do funky red coloring for very severe stuff if ya like :-)
23:01:19< dmacks> We could have all the $msg accumulate in $msgs[$prio] ?
23:02:24< vasi> er, i guess  error_msg $opaque_struct, $msg, $prio, @files;
23:02:34< vasi> or use a closure :-)
23:04:05< runelind> anyone know where k3b is in terms of kde packages?
23:04:05< dmacks> $opaque_struct is how I do it now.
23:04:05< vasi> and yeah, then you could have the structure actually be an array-ref containing hashes of { msg => "blah", files => [ "foo", "bar" ] } 
23:04:05< vasi> runelind, no idea sorry
23:04:51< dmacks> Yeah...if only there were a way to have that hash be ordered...:)
23:05:29< runelind> !lisppaste
23:05:29< vasi> er sorry, i meant an array-ref containing array-refs of hashes
23:05:37< runelind> bah, what's the trigger? :)
23:05:38< dmacks> Ah yeah.
23:05:40< runelind> !lisp
23:05:43< runelind> !paste
23:05:47< dmacks> lisppaste: help
23:05:49< lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
23:06:03< dmacks> runelind: The bot that responded to !things is broken.
23:06:16< vasi> ooh Term::ANSIColor comes standard
23:06:22< vasi> definitely go for the coloring thing then :-)
23:07:17< dmacks> Can we do blinking text? That's such a pretty effect that is sadly underutilized on the web...
23:07:26< lisppaste> runelind pasted "gaim-encryption errors" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11097
23:07:51< runelind> I know it is is a little bit OT, but if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know :)
23:08:47< dmacks> Since $prio is a function of $msg (or vice versa) only need to pass one of those two to the stack.
23:09:51 * runelind wishes he wasn't such a compiling newb
23:10:02< vasi> then you end up duplicating stuff...$msg has to be in a table of priorities, and in the call to error_msg
23:10:12< vasi> i guess you can give each $msg a constant
23:10:15< dmacks> So we might as well throw opaque enum constants that are predefined somewhere else.
23:10:21< dmacks> Er yeah:)
23:11:16< vasi> runelind, it looks like it's trying to build its own gettext
23:11:26< vasi> install libgettext3-dev and try again
23:13:10< runelind> vasi: ok I will give that a shot
23:13:42< dmacks> I dislike having $prio values assigned arbitrarily, scattered throughout a large codeblock. Maintainability-=BIGNUM
23:14:18< vasi> dmacks, does my refactoring in Engine.pm look ok? it's not super-clean, but it's nice and function-alized
23:15:11< dmacks> (how I've got it now works and is "close" to current behavior; you've answered my initial question "no":)
23:15:50< dmacks> HEAD or some branch (/me has 5 perlmod/Fink checked out right now)
23:15:50< dmacks> ?
23:16:16< runelind> vasi: that didn't seem to make a difference :/
23:16:34< vasi> runelind, are you setting the right env variables?
23:16:34< vasi> dmacks, in HEAD
23:17:09< vasi> !compile-myself
23:17:28< dmacks> runelind: Are there any files gaim-encryption-config.h* anywhere?
23:17:28< vasi> damn dead bot....check the FAQ for the part about conpiling yourself
23:18:01< vasi> http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-general.php?phpLang=en#compile-myself
23:18:39< pogma> dmacks: Do you need a reply to your mail querying the darwin8 x86 fink support in bootstrap?
23:19:49< runelind> dmacks: no I don't see it in there
23:19:54< dmacks> pogma: Not that specific mail...the thing was already released:)
23:20:18< pogma> that's what I thought :)
23:21:38< dmacks> vasi: Are we expecting 0.25 anytime soon, or should we push the darwin8/x86 fixes into 24.10?
23:21:43< runelind> and vasi : I don't have any environment variables, lemme read the faq about it
23:22:11< vasi> dmacks, i wouldn't mind getting 0.25 out soon, i'm not sure how doable that is
23:22:23< dmacks> 'k
23:22:24< vasi> lemme check the blockers for a sec
23:22:51< vasi> well, too late for anything to go into 0.24.10
23:23:05< dmacks> Tagged and shipped?
23:23:37< runelind> which faq was it for setting variables
23:23:50< vasi> i just pasted the link a sec ago runelind
23:24:01< runelind> oh, sorry :)
23:24:15< vasi> dmacks, how close are you to finishing the cleanup work?
23:25:18< vasi> ok look, i kinda have to go now (busy day tomorrow)
23:25:47< vasi> on friday if you have time, we can go through the remaining blockers and figure out what we want to do about each one
23:25:57 * dmacks just nuked one.
23:26:12< dmacks> Okay.
23:26:23< vasi> what does implicit source have to do with IBD?
23:26:54< dmacks> It's gonna be annoying to have to continue supporting it when we start having multiple ways of specifying sources.
23:27:21< vasi> but IBD doesn't have anything to do with sources, does it
23:27:27< vasi> ?
23:28:03< vasi> are you thinking of xmlish-source-and-patch?
23:28:10< dmacks> Aw crap...
23:28:24< vasi> :-)
23:28:39< vasi> so, friday ok?
23:28:48< dmacks> Yup. g'noite.
23:28:51< vasi> toodles!
23:28:53-!- vasi [n=vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Client exiting"]
23:29:24< runelind> well I'm getting further on this install :)
23:38:49< runelind> wooot
23:38:49< runelind> works now
23:38:57< dmacks> sweet!
23:39:07< runelind> my gaim messages are now encrypted :)
23:40:29< dmacks> Is this related or unrelated to the gaim-ssl pkg?
23:40:52< runelind> I'm not sure :)
23:42:06< runelind> this will let your messages be encrypted if you're talking to someone else that has the plugin, even if the server doesn't support it
23:42:40 * dmacks knows nothing about gaim, just thinking out loud if you were to create a fink pkg for this.
23:43:33< runelind> I can barely compile it, I shouldn't be put in charge of creating a package for it ;p
23:44:03 * dmacks finds things that compile against fink libs are easier to compile when written as fink pkgs:)
--- Log closed Thu Aug 25 00:00:43 2005

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