Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government By: Saturday working group (teluride) on Sat, Jul 24, '93 55 responses so far The following is a rough transcription of the breakout session held on Saturday afternoon on Providing Electronic Access to Government Lead by Jim Warren & Richard Civille recorded by Darrell Duane 55 responses total. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 1: (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:41) 47 lines Lead In: Telluride Institute's abilities to influence local or federal policy Jim provided three ways of looking at this issue I. Access to Government A. Access to government information B. Access to organizations information i.e. Public Utilities FCC other agencies C. agency commissions provide testimony II. Access to constitutional trinity A. Executive branch Generally only collects info B. Legistlatve 1. Bills, Amendments & Markups 2. Voting Records C. Judicial District court decisions Supreme court decisions Already on line via Lexus, Nexus & Cleveland FreeNET Appellate decisions Eventually, all this data will all be on line It is said that there is more government info created in this century than all other centuries. Previously, interactions have been limited to going to office to present testimony at committees choice of time, and requesting info in written form. The arrives to late to do anything but complain; networking allows it to work faster III. Levels of Government: Federal, State, & Local Richard: Telluride InfoZONE has two aspects: I. Citizen designers interested in accessing broader range of local, state & federal policy II. Grass roots initiative Infozone can serve as a model for other communities to influence utilities & provide strategic planning for telecom services Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 2: (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:42) 7 lines Cathy Gainer, Denver, Grad Student at UCD in program of Instructional Technology: Title of research: Reinventing participatory government for CO: A feasibility study. The only place to get legislative info for CO is in the state bill room: there's no dialup number. I can't get over how little people know about legislative process. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 3: (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:42) 4 lines Jim: I'm working on providing access to state legislature in CA. The theme is: "Equal Access to the process of Governance" with an eye on the time value of information. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 4: Gary, Doctor in Stockton, CA (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:44) 4 lines I'm interested in on-line searching National Library of medicine, and participates in a newsgroup dedicated to on-line medical special interest groups, and is amazed at lack of participation. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 5: Landis Boyd (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:44) 7 lines The public can access congressional bills through Library of Congress application called LOCUS; it provides the Congressional Record as well as bills and amendments. Also gives summaries and legislative history; however it generally does not give full text of bills. The 'Federal Register' is also available for a price, as is the Commerce Business Daily(unknown if cost). Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 6: Gary (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:45) 3 lines We need to open the public up to accessing these services, but are they friendly enough? Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 7: Dave Hughes (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:45) 5 lines We don't have electric starters on these horseless info sources. Better interfaces are coming from very competitive sources; its unknown which will come the standard. Examples include Adobe's acrobat and First Class. Another question is how does one navigate the internet. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 8: Gary (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:45) 2 lines Medical librarians help people navigate, why doesn't this happen in other professions? Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 9: Jim Warren (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:46) 4 lines I gave talk at librarians conference, and there were two speakers had a luddite/anti-computer opinion; there was lot of applause from the audience, but there were a few exceptions. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 10: Anne Branscome (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:47) 4 lines from Harvard's Information Resources Policy Program: Notes that people would prefer to do their own searches, rather than having a librarian do it. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 11: Someone else (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:47) 2 lines Phoenix public schools have redefined their libraries as information access points. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 12: Richard (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:48) 6 lines Rick Boucher, Representative from Virginia talks about digital libraries and the replacement of local civic institutions. Often these descriptions are quite confusing. The Council on Competitiveness notes that as we digititize books, people will be able do research at home. Thus, how important is a library as a community institution? Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 13: James w/AT&T (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:49) 2 lines notes that in National elections: 1/2 vote, and at public hearings, very few people show up. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 14: Michelle Rosenshein (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:50) 3 lines People are willing to sign petitions, but to have to find out who to write to about an issue is presently a very difficult thing to do. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 15: Jim (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:51) 2 lines You can call representatives local office to find out how to participate (look in phone book) Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 16: Matisse Enzer from The WELL (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:51) 3 lines The advocacy groups for consumers of political information will work to get public access to legislative information. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 17: Jim (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:52) 4 lines For instance, California Common Cause (located in Sacramento) staff consists of 3 full time and & 3 students. They want to come on-line and post info. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 18: Anne (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:52) 3 lines What does Telluride's local library do to help people get legislative access? People need help with these questions; they've looked at the Internet and backed off with horror. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 19: Jim (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:53) 4 lines Every congressional district has designated library that is a repository for federal documents; this also happens at state level in California. However, lag time is often a problem with this information. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 20: Richard (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:53) 4 lines It wouldn't work just to provide a connection to the Internet. There needs to be a support structure that is provided/budgeted in order to provide effective access to this info. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 21: Jim (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:54) 6 lines If only librarians would agree that they are information specialists rather than book specialists. Libraries are the first to get budgets cut, often because libraries don't have an advocacy group. such as Cops and Firefighters have. Possibly we should form a raging advocacy committed to supporting libraries. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 22: Matisse (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:55) 8 lines Librarians are too quiet. Steve Cisler of Apple's library has been working to empower librarians to effectively use the information resources. People need to realize that if you cut the libraries, it will cost society money because there won't be any jobs. We need to avoid a building-centric attitude of libraries; the librarian's role involves going out and teaching people in the community. We need to become a more widespread lobbying group for the librarians. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 23: Jim (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:55) 2 lines Librarians jealously consider the Library to be a 'cathedral' for the community; it is an intellectual haven for the community. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 24: Anne (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:56) 2 lines Libraries are still just delivering hard copy now; Nothing is on line yet. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 25: Howard Rheingold from The WELL (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:58) 8 lines If we support Libraries, we should not consider them to be either a physical space or cyberspace. We need both. Two issues: A. provide equity of access B. not a totally disembodied place where people can help you The library is an answer to a lot of questions about the new medium. We need to keep those buildings the Carnegie money paid for in business! Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 26: John Lifton (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:58) 4 lines The virtual community has to be mapped on to the physical community; also, we need to build a group of activist librarians who are available for the communities. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 27: Paul Lambert of Motorola (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:59) 5 lines lets change the conversation to that of contributing information to government (rather than getting info from gov't) petitions are a simple example; citizen involvement into a participatory event such as town meeting environment is something else to think about. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 28: Michelle (teluride) Sat, Jul 24, '93 (23:59) 2 lines Can we increase the rate of legislation by having more people voting on more bills?! Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 29: Jim (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:00) 9 lines You now can send e-mail to about 12 members of congress, but you have to send postcard to their office to find out what their e-mail address is; Mark Graham of Connecticut hasn't heard from one constituent yet. They're very concerned about the flood of info. I'm trying to get California Legislator's staffer to get e-mail but they've been told you can't give it to any legislator until you can give it to all(this is just politics) Legislators are concerned about getting a flood of mail from people who are not their constituents. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 30: Richard (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:01) 4 lines Santa Monica encouraged public access to City Council; they pledged a response within something like 24/48 hours to e- mail. City council members indeed were swamped with information. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 31: Matisse (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:02) 13 lines The White House staff currently prints out the e-mail messages they receive & puts them in queue with written mail. They do not provide on-line responses; if you want a response you have to include your postal address and they'll get to it in the same amount of time that it would take if you had sent a letter through the post office. You shouldn't get faster access to Bill Clinton just because you have e-mail, fax or even phone. It also has to be done this way because what happens if you overload [with e-mail] the same computer that the legislator uses for day to day business? There is also have concerns about putting legislation on-line; what if the bill was released incorrectly? There's got to be a way for a homeless person to read this info; There's a need for public access to the internet; this should be done in the libraries. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 32: Jim (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:03) 6 lines Lets focus on Local access for a moment, i.e. Santa Monica's PEN or other state access. Hawaii has a network called FYI or Hawaii on-line. They set up their own state network free to everyone there. They provide dialup & public access, and are considering whether to put themselves on the Internet. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 33: Matisse (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:03) 5 lines Do you want people in Massachusetts for instance to telnet into Hawaii's system and comment on this info? If Telluride sets up a system, they shouldn't let outsiders into the whole system, but they also need to have a place where anyone can go. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 34: Bill Washburn of Commercial Internet Exchange(CIX) (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:04) 2 lines It's just too overwhelming for gov't reps. to deal with the info. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 35: Michelle (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:05) 3 lines I'm trying to follow legislation about video dialtone particularly in rural areas; can you pool resources and cut down on costs? Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 36: Someone Else (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:06) 8 lines In Boulder, we priced out information kiosks to be put in supermarkets; these are the best place because everyone buys food. The question came up about providing anonyminity: people asked anonymous questions such as about sexual diseases, but also there was one like: "I cheated on an exam, and I want to know what the punishments are." We can't have this in present life. In order to answer these questions you have to have a public place to post questions and answers. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 37: someone who works for a govt info service (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:07) 4 lines Before I started working for this office, it was nailed because it was charging high enough rates for access to county information to keep people from getting the info, rather than seeing what it would really cost. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 38: Jim (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:08) 5 lines A gov't agency is responsible for serving its charge..not specialized services. We should allow entrepreneurs to do the specialized data collection. However, providing an incremental record should be the gov'ts responsibility. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 39: Gary (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:08) 2 lines Why aren't we creating a position in gov't that serves as a mediator for transferring to info technology? Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 40: works at info service (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:09) 8 lines I feel we are doing this...diversity is important; many will still want to go to courthouse and get info. Libraries would be a good access point. Currently we're exploring ways to provide this access. Presently you can walk into clerk's office and find the aperture card and read it if you know how; if you don't there is staff that will help you. Lets not loose sight of the importance of diversity. I hope there's no shakeout, but just that there becomes a large diversity of tools. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 41: Jim (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:10) 3 lines I don't want unwanted changes, but I do want standardization. There will be some sort of shake out to provide this standardization. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 42: Matisse (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:11) 7 lines The arrival of the printing press in Germany made the wide variety of dialects dissolve...there was a homogenizing effect. Some of it is good some is not, but computers need to communicate, and some things may be lost in interconnecting them. If something is totally graphic, its not going to be able to communicate with other systems Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 43: Jim (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:11) 2 lines Problems may arise if the County computerizes GIS info in a different manner than the Highway dept. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 44: Matisse (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:12) 5 lines What about the Fire Department's need for finding map info..will it be compatible?! To change the subject, What info do you want (or don't want made available?) Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 45: Jim (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:13) 6 lines How do we deal with personal info? Should voter registration records be available to campaign organizers or not? Should drivers license records be available to insurance Companies? I went to a computers and security conference & heard that 50 different entities had right to access private medical records. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 46: John Lifton (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:13) 1 line Privacy is Evaporating! Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 47: Jim (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:14) 9 lines Prior to WWII, European telephone companies kept records of where long distance calls were placed for billing purposes. When Hitler invaded various nations, the forces got these phone records and looked at the records of people who they thought might cause them problems, subsequently arresting them and the people that they had called. Hence, most European countries exclude this sort of information on phone bills; you have to trust them w/ regard to the phone bill. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 48: Paul Lambert (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:15) 4 lines Authentication is important if we are going to perform voting(even if its a straw man vote). Also, I want to see what is in my personal record but I don't want anyone else to see it. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 49: Dan Collins (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:15) 3 lines Should we let people masquerade on the net? You don't want people meeting people in masks. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 50: Richard (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:16) 3 lines Should we have a Mardi Gras situation? We should be able to do this also! The need for authentication can be solved using Public Signature keys. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 51: Matisse (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:16) 3 lines Isn't the lack of authentication in cyberspace the same as the postal system? Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 52: Someone else (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:17) 3 lines Electronic communication is different and there's a greater need for authenticity. (newer media have a greater burden to establish trust) Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 53: Kit Galloway (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:18) 6 lines You need to be able to leave your house and go someplace where you can participate anonymously, like what you can do with a pay phone. People always want demographic info or anything else to do business with. The wire shoved right up your consumer tract. We need to maintain some very ancient facilities. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 54: Bill Washburn (teluride) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (00:18) 5 lines I wanted to point out that we haven't covered providing better service from gov't to individuals over the internet. Santa Monica's PEN System has ability to communicate with reps, but it also gives the ability for citizens to communicate to each other about their problems. Topic 28: Providing Electronic Access to Government # 55: David from Boulder (kline) Sun, Jul 25, '93 (07:54) 4 lines Cryptography will evidently give us the ability to create places in Cyberspace where people's identities CAN be verified. Anonymity and knowing-who-everyone-is both have their place in different parts of what I would like to see emerge from all of this. .