Don Webb interviewed by Don Webb ((This interview originally appeared in Mike Gunderloy's _Factsheet Five_ and is Copyright (c) Don Webb. Don is a freelance writer, magician, and nice guy availabe at 0004200716@mcimail.com)) Introduction: Don Webb, a fat man, has published in more than 150 magazines large and small in the U.S., U.K., Canada, Norway, France, and India. I found him in his Austin home playing Mah-Johngg with lovely wife Rosemary. He seemed annoyed at the intrusion as he was going for a 40-point concealed hand. He became more relaxed when I came fully in focus. He even signed the old copy of _Asimov's I brought along. DW: Can the small press change your life? DW: Absolutely. You find out about things ignored by the mass media (like Big Mountain), you observe completely different mind-sets cheaply and safely (fringe science, new approaches to politics and philosophy), you're dazzled by an array of verbal visual sytles you can't find in B. Dalton's ( _Score, _Lightworks, _Live From the Stagger Cafe), and you make friends (Kyle Hogg, Misha Chocholak, etc., etc.). You don't meet people in _The New Yorker. DW: You don't write much political stuff. Why? DW: I figure the places that would print it have already got enlightenment. Maybe someday. Bruce Sterling has incorporated a lot of Bob Black's philosophy in his soon-to-be-published _Islands in the Net. Strong idea(l)s do prevail. DW: Do you look upon the small press as a "training ground"? DW: Although, that's one of it's functions; I won't accept the notion that small press work is inherently half-baked. There are 4000 fiction books published in the U.S. each year. 98% of these couldn't compete with _New Pathways, _Grue, _Wind, _Ice River or scores of others. As long as the big 3 publishers and big 2 bookstore chains use balance sheets to determine their actions -- you'll see over half of the best in the small press. A lot of innovative writers have sold well -- B. S. Johnson, for example -- but their work isn't snapped up immediately so it faces a hard path. DW: Name five organizations you believe in. DW: The ACLU, the International Book Program, Amnesty Interntional, the Institute of Potential Literature (Oulipo), the Pel Torro Fan Club. DW: The ACLU? Aren't they a bunch of commies? DW: The ACLU champions the rights of underdogs. . . I can't think of anything more American. The right is possessed -- you can see it by the flags in their eyes. They use words (freedom fighters) without content and badges of loyalty. We've got to exorcise the local alien spirit. Maybe some _real U.S. history courses would help. DW: What is Oulipo? DW: They are a group of crazy Frenchmen, founded by Raymond Queneau, interested in combining mathematics and literature. You'd be amazed at what a little matrix algebra can do to _Hamlet. One of their original members was J.R. "Bob" Dobbs who went under the name of Andre' Blavier. DW: Matrix algebra? DW: Sure. One of Oulipo's members, Henry Matthews, devised a system. Take any story -- fit it into an _n x _n matrix. Take the diagonals of the matrix. The process can be carried out on any level -- words, sentences, plot elements. Take Shirley Jackson's _The Lottery as an example: Tessie | who protests | is stoned. | We are Hutchinson | the lottery | ! shocked by | ! ! by such | ! ! brutality. --------------+---------------+---------------+-------------- Her neighbors | who decry the | silence the | Would we do | valley's | heretic. | the same? | abandonment of! ! | the lottery ! ! --------------+---------------+---------------+-------------- Her children | who innocently| commit | We think of | gather stones ! matricide | Greek | | unknowingly. | tragedy. --------------+---------------+---------------+-------------- Her husband | who is | is probably | How do we | embarrassed | better off at | treat those | by his wife's | the end of | relatives who | protests ! the story. ! embarrass us? The diagonals: Tessie Hutchinson, who decries the valley's abandonment of the lottery, commits matricide unknowingly. How do we treat those relatives who embarrass us? Her neighbors, who innocently gather stones, are probably better off at the end of the story. We are shocked by such brutality. Her children, who are embarrassed by their wives' protests, are stoned. Would we do the same? Her husband, who protests the lottery, silences the heretic. We think of Greek tragedy. DW: Now the heroine champions the lottery, which kills her own mother (and her children). This technique can create new stories and throw light on old ones. The Oulipo are also interested in lipograms, combinations, recursive literature, multi-path stories, centos, factorial novels, computer-assisted literature, and much, much more. A good introduction to the movement is Warren F. Motte Jr.'s _Oulipo. DW: But aren't these just games? DW: All writing has a game aspect. We're exposed to a lot of techniques without realizing they're techniques. Beginning - Middle - End is a technique. Important reallife events don't happen that way; although, we've been taught to see them thusly. But all the games in the world won't save you if you don't have something to say. DW: What's your #1 small press pet peeve? DW: Writing something for an irregularly published magazine that decides to fold and doesn't return my submission in its SASE. DW: Name 5 books you've read and enjoyed lately. DW: _Mood Indigo by Boris Vian, _The Movement of Mountains by Michael Blumlein, _The Telephone Book by Ed Friedmann, _The Compleat Practical Joker by H. Allen Smith, _Uriel for _President by Franz Bergman. DW: What games do you enjoy? DW: Mah-Johngg, AD&D, miniature golf, pinball, hearts. DW: The Pel Torro Fan Club? DW: I was wondering how long it would take you to ask. Pel Torro aka Bron Fane aka Leo Brett aka John E. Muller aka Devero Spartacus aka Mel Jay aka Karl Zeigfried aka etc. is to SF what Edward D. "Plan 9 From Outer Space" Wood Jr. was to film. I own 6 of the over 100 novels he dictated and am always looking for more. He has been unjustly neglected -- like Ed Wood, flashes of originality illuminate the muck. I am President of the International Pel Torro Fan Club. You can join by reading _Galaxy 666 then sending me money. I won't send anything back so it's a Cosmic Awareness sort of thing. DW: What are your current sales? DW: My cahpbook _The Seventh Day and After_ just came out from Wordcraft of Oregon/ POB 3235/ La Grande, OR 97850 and Chris Drumm will have another out soon as well. DW: Will you continue writing or will you get a real job? DW: The best jobs -- copywriter at JerryCo and reporter at the _Weekly World News -- seem to be taken, so I guess I'll keep writing. May I ask you a question? DW: Sure. DW: Do you play Mah-Johngg? DW: A little. DW: Sit down. .