Subj : Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
To   : alt.ham-radio.vhf-uhf,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.policy
From : Matt Osborn
Date : Mon Sep 26 2005 06:27:54

From Newsgroup: alt.ham-radio.vhf-uhf

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 01:11:34 -0700, Zoran Brlecic
<...WA7AA...@get.lost> wrote:

>Matt Osborn wrote:
>
>
>>>Well, then, you're clearly wrong, because I, for one, along with 
>>>millions of other people, am an atheist. I don't believe in your god, 
>>>nor do I believe in any other god until you provide objective evidence 
>>>instead of wishful thinking, "knowing in one's heart" and ancient myths.
>
>> You have made no case for atheism. All you have done is list a series
>> of things in which do not believe.  You have not listed what you do
>> believe or in what you have placed your faith.
>
>What difference does it make what I "believe"? When it comes to blind 
>faith in the supernatural and paranormal, I believe none of it until it 
>can be scientifically repeated, falsified and explained. Other than 
>that, I believe the Sun will rise tomorrow and I believe in peace and 
>love, and I believe I'll have a beer. But please don't go confusing 
>these three "beliefs" with the belief in the supernatural. This is the 
>equivocation game and it's dishonest.

You do have blind faith in something unless you've already discovered
everything.  None of us can say anything of the unknown with
certainty, yet we all have the faith to tackle the unknown head on and
to carve from it useful knowledge.

BTW, despite the allegations, there is no conflict between science and
religion. The religious use science just as much as the rest of us.

>> Atheism is a logically faulty concept.  Being human, you cannot
>> possibly know everything.
>
>What difference does this make? I don't know how the Universe began and 
>quite possibly no one will ever know exactly, but does that mean we can 
>simply pull the "answers" out of our asses? I am not playing the god of 
>the gaps game either. That's just stupid.

If you don't know everything, than you have to have faith that you can
operate and archive something in the face of the unknown.  How you
perceive that faith is up to you, but it is there.

>> What you may think of the unknown is
>> entirely up to you, but whatever that may be, will require just as
>> much faith as any other religion.  Your religion simply has different
>> trappings.
>
>[sigh] I suppose it's hopeless.
>
>You keep blindly repeating what your voodoo practitioners told you, and 
>are unwilling to accept that atheists get to define what atheism is - 
>not you. So feel free to believe (no pun) that atheism is religion or 
>that atheists "deny" God, but I am telling you that the only thing that 
>atheism is, is the absence of belief in gods. Period.

Agreed.  Where we differ is that you think that makes you somehow
different from those that do.  You're not different, you're exactly
the same.

>And to everyone's relief, this will be my last post. Whoever wants to 
>follow up is free to transfer the discussion to alt.atheism, soc.atheism 
>or talk.atheism.
>
>73 ... WA7AA



-- msosborn at msosborn dot com

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