Subj : Re: Cage Blooper
To   : alt.tv.star-trek.tos
From : Steven L.
Date : Sun Sep 18 2005 17:22:15

From Newsgroup: alt.tv.star-trek.tos

Graeme wrote:

> ]]
> Because after Pike was kidnapped by the Talosians, Number One, Spock
> and
> Jose had a debriefing in the Briefing Room.  And presumably as part of
> that debriefing, Spock and Jose told Number One about everything that
> had taken place on the planet's surface, including the existence of
> Vina
> and what she looked like.
> [[
> 
> Yes, but remember Pike was surprised to see the same girl a second
> time.  There's no reason for Number One to assume this girl is the same
> as the one in the survivor's camp same.  And even if she did assume it,
> there's no reason to believe that that person was the adult Vina who
> served on the whatchamacallit (they never did give that ship a name).

During the meeting in the Briefing Room, presumably Spock or Jose tells 
Number One that on the planet's surface they met a young blonde woman, 
Vina, who the illusory scientists said was born as they crashed.  And 
that this blonde girl helped trap Captain Pike for the Talosians.

So naturally when Number One beams down inside the Talosian menagerie 
and meets a young blonde woman standing next to Pike, of course she'll 
assume it's the young Vina that Jose and Spock were talking about.  It's 
the simplest assumption--how many young blonde women should she assume 
live down there?

However, Number One, knowing of the adult crewman Vina on the S.S. 
Columbia, did have doubts that this young woman Vina is real.  And 
because Dr. Boyce warned her not to believe anything she sees.


> Vina changed her mind at that point and decided to accept death too,
> rather than continue to act as a lure for more Earthmen to be
> kidnapped.
> [[
> 
> Yes, I remember that, but it doesn't change the fact that she was able
> to live in captivity for 18 years.  Obviously therefore, it's possible
> for humans to live that way.

It may be possible to live that way *alone*, making that decision only 
for yourself due to very special circumstances.  Just as Captain Pike 
offered to do--to sacrifice his freedom for that of his crew.  It's when 
you have to conspire to enslave others for your own companionship that 
it becomes intolerable.  That was the point of the scene--the conflict 
between choosing to live a life of loneliness vs. enslaving others for 
your own companionship.  (And, as Number One pointed out, needing to see 
your own children enslaved as well.)

Another such very special circumstance is if you're already enslaved to 
permanent injuries anyway.  The real Vina had to decide to accept a life 
of illusion on Talos IV, because her body was mangled in the crash.  And 
in "The Menagerie," Captain Pike has ended up in a similar state as 
Vina, with an even more damaged body.  So he makes the same decision 
that Vina did, for pretty much the same reason that Vina did, which I 
thought was an elegant way to end that episode.

Vina herself told Pike that the Talosian power of illusion was like a 
narcotic.  In present-day Earth, someone who is suffering chronic pain 
due to injury or cancer may voluntarily choose to take enough opiate 
narcotic painkiller that he may risk getting addicted--"enslaved"--to 
it.  (Even though this person would never have become a junkie when he 
was healthy.)  What Vina and Pike were doing was similar--becoming 
"illusion junkies" was still preferable to the sad reality of their 
state of health.


> The episode showed us just what we wanted to see.  Bold,
> individualistic humans who couldn't be tamed, no matter what the odds.
> Of course if you know human history, you know that ain't quite true.
> Most every civilization in history has had slavery at some point, and
> for some it lasted for thousands of years.

It lasted only by brute force, or at least the threat of force.  Not by 
making life "pleasant" for the slaves, as the Talosians were trying to 
do.  The "modern" Romans in the episode "Bread and Circuses" did grant 
the slaves more rights, including old age pensions and health care.  But 
they still needed brute force to suppress the slaves on a continuing basis.

Real-world example:  late 20th century Eastern Europe.  As soon as 
Gorbachev announced that the Red Army would no longer be used to 
subjugate Eastern Europe and the Baltics, every Communist government 
there got kicked out of office.  This came as a real surprise to many 
naive Westerners who thought that the citizens in those countries had a 
decent standard of living and were actually satisfied to live under 
communism.


-- 
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:  sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net

Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

.