Subj : Re: BSG
To   : alt.tv.farscape
From : Nick
Date : Tue Sep 27 2005 20:16:27

From Newsgroup: alt.tv.farscape

Nick wrote:

> Jim Larson wrote:
> 
>> Nick wrote:
>> 
>>> Jim Larson wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Nick wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Tyler Trafford wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Nick wrote:
>>>>>>> John I wrote:
>>>>>>>> Nick wrote:
>>>>>>>>> TNW7Z7Z7Z12345 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Be sure to read the URL John posted. 
>>>>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/8ko7r. It is now obvious that this goes
>>>>>>>>>> way beyond Abu Graib - that it was widespread and that the
>>>>>>>>>> military is still trying to cover it up. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> A lot of that is really bad but some of these things I look at
>>>>>>>>> and think, so what? For example: "Detainees were also stacked,
>>>>>>>>> fully clothed, in human pyramids and forced to hold five-gallon
>>>>>>>>> water jugs with arms outstretched or do jumping jacks until
>>>>>>>>> they passed out, the report says." 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> This stuff looks like really mild fraternity initiation
>>>>>>>>> rituals or even high-school football practice.
>>>>>>>>> Breaking bones and beatings are one thing, but this other stuff
>>>>>>>>> is laughable. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Trun off Rush radio.  It is a proven fact that it will actually
>>>>>>>> make you dumber. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So you have been listening to it, eh?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Actually, I don't listen to political radio.
>>>>>>> But I did go to catholic school and military basic training and
>>>>>>> have had to do similar things to these. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm pretty sure this wasn't training or trust exercises.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Neither was mine.  Holding items with your arms out was standard
>>>>> school punishment. 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> In a highly controlled situation, where you knew on some
>>>> instinctual level that there was oversight and that it would never
>>>> go too far. I strongly doubt that you ever feared Sr. Mary Frances
>>>> would break your wrists if you dropped the books you were holding. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> True, but we are comparing elementary school kids to terrorists and 
>>> insurgents.  I would expect the treatment to be a little tougher than
>>> it is on the kids. 
>> 
>> Only if those being treated tougher are actual terrorists and
>> insurgents rather than just random brown-skinned people. Guantanamo
>> may be a different situation. In Iraq, however, I would bet that a
>> sizeable percentage of those arrested just had the misfortune of being
>> picked up for some reason. 
> 
> 
> We can only speculate on this point because we don't know.
> 
>> But this is beside the point. What are we doing there? Are we trying
>> to foster democracy, or are we an occupying army free to ignore our
>> own laws and sense of decency when it's convenient? If you were a
>> random Iraqi whose relative, terrorist or not, had just had his legs
>> broken by the nice Marine Sergeant over there, what would your gut
>> reaction to this question be? 
> 
> 
> Depends on the relative.


By the way, I agree that the beating and bone breaking is completely out 
of line.  I was just saying that people getting that excited about pyramid 
making seems like a bit of over-reacting.

.