Subj : Re: BSG
To   : alt.tv.farscape
From : Nick
Date : Tue Sep 27 2005 20:13:59

From Newsgroup: alt.tv.farscape

Jim Larson wrote:

> Nick wrote:
> 
>> Jim Larson wrote:
>> 
>>> Nick wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Tyler Trafford wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Nick wrote:
>>>>>> John I wrote:
>>>>>>> Nick wrote:
>>>>>>>> TNW7Z7Z7Z12345 wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Be sure to read the URL John posted. 
>>>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/8ko7r. It is now obvious that this goes
>>>>>>>>> way beyond Abu Graib - that it was widespread and that the
>>>>>>>>> military is still trying to cover it up. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> A lot of that is really bad but some of these things I look at
>>>>>>>> and think, so what? For example: "Detainees were also stacked,
>>>>>>>> fully clothed, in human pyramids and forced to hold
>>>>>>>> five-gallon water jugs with arms outstretched or do jumping
>>>>>>>> jacks until they passed out, the report says." 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This stuff looks like really mild fraternity initiation
>>>>>>>> rituals or even high-school football practice.
>>>>>>>> Breaking bones and beatings are one thing, but this other
>>>>>>>> stuff is laughable. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Trun off Rush radio.  It is a proven fact that it will actually
>>>>>>> make you dumber. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So you have been listening to it, eh?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Actually, I don't listen to political radio.
>>>>>> But I did go to catholic school and military basic training and
>>>>>> have had to do similar things to these. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm pretty sure this wasn't training or trust exercises.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Neither was mine.  Holding items with your arms out was standard
>>>> school punishment. 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> In a highly controlled situation, where you knew on some
>>> instinctual level that there was oversight and that it would never
>>> go too far. I strongly doubt that you ever feared Sr. Mary Frances
>>> would break your wrists if you dropped the books you were holding. 
>> 
>> 
>> True, but we are comparing elementary school kids to terrorists and 
>> insurgents.  I would expect the treatment to be a little tougher
>> than it is on the kids. 
> 
> Only if those being treated tougher are actual terrorists and
> insurgents rather than just random brown-skinned people. Guantanamo
> may be a different situation. In Iraq, however, I would bet that a
> sizeable percentage of those arrested just had the misfortune of
> being picked up for some reason. 


We can only speculate on this point because we don't know.

> But this is beside the point. What are we doing there? Are we trying
> to foster democracy, or are we an occupying army free to ignore our
> own laws and sense of decency when it's convenient? If you were a
> random Iraqi whose relative, terrorist or not, had just had his legs
> broken by the nice Marine Sergeant over there, what would your gut
> reaction to this question be? 


Depends on the relative.

.