Subj : Re: BSG
To   : alt.tv.farscape
From : John I
Date : Tue Sep 27 2005 20:05:25

From Newsgroup: alt.tv.farscape

Jim Larson wrote:

> Nick wrote:
> 
>> Jim Larson wrote:
>> 
>>> Nick wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Tyler Trafford wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Nick wrote:
>>>>>> John I wrote:
>>>>>>> Nick wrote:
>>>>>>>> TNW7Z7Z7Z12345 wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Be sure to read the URL John posted.  http://tinyurl.com/8ko7r.
>>>>>>>>> It is now obvious that this goes way beyond Abu Graib - that it
>>>>>>>>> was widespread and that the military is still trying to cover
>>>>>>>>> it up. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> A lot of that is really bad but some of these things I look at
>>>>>>>> and think, so what? For example: "Detainees were also stacked,
>>>>>>>> fully clothed, in human pyramids and forced to hold five-gallon
>>>>>>>> water jugs with arms outstretched or do jumping jacks until they
>>>>>>>> passed out, the report says." 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This stuff looks like really mild fraternity initiation rituals
>>>>>>>> or even high-school football practice.
>>>>>>>> Breaking bones and beatings are one thing, but this other stuff
>>>>>>>> is laughable. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Trun off Rush radio.  It is a proven fact that it will actually
>>>>>>> make you dumber. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So you have been listening to it, eh?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Actually, I don't listen to political radio.
>>>>>> But I did go to catholic school and military basic training and
>>>>>> have had to do similar things to these. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm pretty sure this wasn't training or trust exercises.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Neither was mine.  Holding items with your arms out was standard
>>>> school punishment. 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> In a highly controlled situation, where you knew on some instinctual
>>> level that there was oversight and that it would never go too far. I
>>> strongly doubt that you ever feared Sr. Mary Frances would break your
>>> wrists if you dropped the books you were holding. 
>>  
>> 
>> True, but we are comparing elementary school kids to terrorists and 
>> insurgents.  I would expect the treatment to be a little tougher than
>> it is on the kids.
> 
> Only if those being treated tougher are actual terrorists and insurgents
> rather than just random brown-skinned people. Guantanamo may be a
> different situation. In Iraq, however, I would bet that a sizeable
> percentage of those arrested just had the misfortune of being picked up
> for some reason. 
> 
> But this is beside the point. What are we doing there? Are we trying to 
> foster democracy, or are we an occupying army free to ignore our own
> laws and sense of decency when it's convenient? If you were a random
> Iraqi whose relative, terrorist or not, had just had his legs broken by
> the nice Marine Sergeant over there, what would your gut reaction to
> this question be? 
> 

I thought we were there because Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and they 
were getting ready to attack the US.

.