Subj : Re: BSG To : alt.tv.farscape From : John I Date : Tue Sep 27 2005 16:45:34 From Newsgroup: alt.tv.farscape weirdwolf wrote: > John I wrote in > news:Xns96DE75503A89Aoiwhnanri@66.26.32.8: > >> weirdwolf wrote: >> >>> John I wrote in news:Xns96DE71554266oiwhnanri@ >>> 66.26.32.8: >>> >>>> John I wrote: >>>> >>>>> weirdwolf wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> John I wrote in >>>>>> news:Xns96DE6F6F95144oiwhnanri@66.26.32.8: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Tyler Trafford wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ken McElhaney wrote: >>>>>>>>> Tyler Trafford wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Ken McElhaney wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> TNW7Z7Z7Z12345 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> But whatever Saddam did has no relation whatsoever to our >>>>>>>>>>>> treatment of prisoners of war. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I point it out because it keeps getting lost in the >>>>>>>>>>> arguement. That somehow everything in Iraq was peachy-keen >>>>>>>>>>> (like Moore's depiction of Iraqis flying kites in his film >>>>>>>>>>> "Farenheit 911") until we showed up. Again, ask the Kurds 'n >>>>>>>>>>> Shia (who rarely appear on tv since almost all the violence >>>>>>>>>>> is happening in Sunni territory) if the United States is just >>>>>>>>>>> as bad or even in the >>> same >>>>>>>>>>> ballpark as Saddam. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I don't think anyone uses Abu Gharib as a reason the US >>>>>>>>>> shouldn't have gone over there. (Have they?) What happened >>>>>>>>>> there is a separate issue. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Well, TNZ seems to think that our status among Iraqis dropped >>>>>>>>> waaaaay down because of what happened at Abu Ghraib. And my >>>>>>>>> response is that while what happened there was a black eye for >>>>>>>>> the US and everyone involved should be punished, the Kurds 'n >>>>>>>>> Shia >>> (who >>>>>>>>> represent 80% of the country and were 100% the target of >>>>>>>>> Saddam's abuses) will not be as critical of what happened as we >>>>>>>>> have been >>> to >>>>>>>>> ourselves. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Can anyone think that the Kurds, who lost over 100,000 of their >>>>>>>>> fathers, brothers, sisters, sons 'n daughters to Saddam's men >>>>>>>>> will view Abu Graib in the same light? How about the Shia who >>>>>>>>> lost >>> even >>>>>>>>> MORE of their people? Again, do they view us on the same level >>>>>>>>> as Saddam? Since they represent the vast majority of the Iraqi >>>>>>>>> population, isn't their view of what happened really important >>>>>>>>> to our future with their country? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ah, I see what you're saying. I think people will be more >>>>>>>> critical of the US though, as we often are to outsiders. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Long term, who knows. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It still blows my mind that no one in charge stopped what was >>>>>>>> going on in that prison. Morality aside, I am shocked that no >>>>>>>> one >>> foresaw >>>>>>>> the story getting out to the public -it's like a total >>>>>>>> disconnect from reality. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There were individuals who recognized that it was wrong and >>>>>>> reported it. I think the key to understanding why no one in >>>>>>> charge stopped >>> it >>>>>>> is that it was policy and it was encouraged by the people in >>>>>>> charge. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also don't foorget that Bush I encouraged the Shia to revolt at >>>>>>> the end of the first Gulf war and then left them to be >>>>>>> slaughtered. >>> That >>>>>>> didn't exactly instill trust. And the Kurds were killed with >>> American >>>>>>> weapons supplied by the Reagan admin with Cheney's and Rummy >>>>>>> acting >>> as >>>>>>> liason to Saddam. Oh well. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Not to mention that the "no fly zone" was about as much use as a >>>>>> chocolate tea pot. >>>>>> Don't forget kids Iranian Kurds are so-so and can be ignored, >>> Turkish >>>>>> Kurds are bad, Iraqi Kurds are good. Unless of course there is an >>>>>> incursion by the Turkish army into Iraq in which case they become >>>>>> the bad Kurds and it's ok to let the army stand by and do nothing. >>>>>> Ted >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Remeber all the guff the Turks got from our idiot right-wing in the >>> run >>>>> up to Iraq? They got the French treatment because they were >>>>> reluctant to side with the US in its falsified rational for >>>>> invasion. We are still trying to figure out how to integrate >>>>> "Giant Freedom Bird" into the Thanksgiving tradition. >>>>> >>>> >>>> It goes really well with Victory Gin. (what's this sore on my leg?) >>> >>> HUH? >>> We must have missed that over here, we got the whole freedom fries >>> thing >>> and pissed ourselves laughing at how stupid it all was, but it was a >>> minor story behind all the other shit that was happening. >>> I'm not surprised that the Turks didn't want in, despite the history >>> of >>> fawning for U.S. attention they have. Lets face it if it wasn't for >>> the joining of NATO, positioning onto the Black sea and the middle >>> east oil fields and placing nukes onto their soil Turkey would be >>> right there on the shit list with Syria and Iran. >>> However they have been bucking to join the E.U. for ages now and >>> didn't >>> want to piss off the French and Germans who already have grave >>> reservations about them joining as well as the questions about the >>> Cyprus vote being held at the time. >>> Ted >>> >> >> "Giant Freedom Bird" = figment of my imagination >> "Victory gin" = figment of George Orwell's >> > > Blergh sorry even more dopey than normal today, I'm not looking foreward > to my mandarin lesson tonight, Claire is ill and can't go. > It's been many many years since I last read 1984, infact thinking about > it, hmm it's been er 21 years. Guess I failed Orwell 101 and should > report to said room. Strangely enough I was talking about animal farm > last night.I prefer Kafka anyway. > Ted > Kafka rules. .