Subj : Re: BSG To : alt.tv.farscape From : weirdwolf Date : Tue Sep 27 2005 16:35:06 From Newsgroup: alt.tv.farscape John I wrote in news:Xns96DE75503A89Aoiwhnanri@66.26.32.8: > weirdwolf wrote: > >> John I wrote in news:Xns96DE71554266oiwhnanri@ >> 66.26.32.8: >> >>> John I wrote: >>> >>>> weirdwolf wrote: >>>> >>>>> John I wrote in >>>>> news:Xns96DE6F6F95144oiwhnanri@66.26.32.8: >>>>> >>>>>> Tyler Trafford wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ken McElhaney wrote: >>>>>>>> Tyler Trafford wrote: >>>>>>>>> Ken McElhaney wrote: >>>>>>>>>> TNW7Z7Z7Z12345 wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> But whatever Saddam did has no relation whatsoever to our >>>>>>>>>>> treatment of prisoners of war. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I point it out because it keeps getting lost in the >>>>>>>>>> arguement. That somehow everything in Iraq was peachy-keen >>>>>>>>>> (like Moore's depiction of Iraqis flying kites in his film >>>>>>>>>> "Farenheit 911") until we showed up. Again, ask the Kurds 'n >>>>>>>>>> Shia (who rarely appear on tv since almost all the violence >>>>>>>>>> is happening in Sunni territory) if the United States is just >>>>>>>>>> as bad or even in the >> same >>>>>>>>>> ballpark as Saddam. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't think anyone uses Abu Gharib as a reason the US >>>>>>>>> shouldn't have gone over there. (Have they?) What happened >>>>>>>>> there is a separate issue. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well, TNZ seems to think that our status among Iraqis dropped >>>>>>>> waaaaay down because of what happened at Abu Ghraib. And my >>>>>>>> response is that while what happened there was a black eye for >>>>>>>> the US and everyone involved should be punished, the Kurds 'n >>>>>>>> Shia >> (who >>>>>>>> represent 80% of the country and were 100% the target of >>>>>>>> Saddam's abuses) will not be as critical of what happened as we >>>>>>>> have been >> to >>>>>>>> ourselves. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can anyone think that the Kurds, who lost over 100,000 of their >>>>>>>> fathers, brothers, sisters, sons 'n daughters to Saddam's men >>>>>>>> will view Abu Graib in the same light? How about the Shia who >>>>>>>> lost >> even >>>>>>>> MORE of their people? Again, do they view us on the same level >>>>>>>> as Saddam? Since they represent the vast majority of the Iraqi >>>>>>>> population, isn't their view of what happened really important >>>>>>>> to our future with their country? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ah, I see what you're saying. I think people will be more >>>>>>> critical of the US though, as we often are to outsiders. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Long term, who knows. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It still blows my mind that no one in charge stopped what was >>>>>>> going on in that prison. Morality aside, I am shocked that no >>>>>>> one >> foresaw >>>>>>> the story getting out to the public -it's like a total >>>>>>> disconnect from reality. >>>>>> >>>>>> There were individuals who recognized that it was wrong and >>>>>> reported it. I think the key to understanding why no one in >>>>>> charge stopped >> it >>>>>> is that it was policy and it was encouraged by the people in >>>>>> charge. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also don't foorget that Bush I encouraged the Shia to revolt at >>>>>> the end of the first Gulf war and then left them to be >>>>>> slaughtered. >> That >>>>>> didn't exactly instill trust. And the Kurds were killed with >> American >>>>>> weapons supplied by the Reagan admin with Cheney's and Rummy >>>>>> acting >> as >>>>>> liason to Saddam. Oh well. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Not to mention that the "no fly zone" was about as much use as a >>>>> chocolate tea pot. >>>>> Don't forget kids Iranian Kurds are so-so and can be ignored, >> Turkish >>>>> Kurds are bad, Iraqi Kurds are good. Unless of course there is an >>>>> incursion by the Turkish army into Iraq in which case they become >>>>> the bad Kurds and it's ok to let the army stand by and do nothing. >>>>> Ted >>>>> >>>> >>>> Remeber all the guff the Turks got from our idiot right-wing in the >> run >>>> up to Iraq? They got the French treatment because they were >>>> reluctant to side with the US in its falsified rational for >>>> invasion. We are still trying to figure out how to integrate >>>> "Giant Freedom Bird" into the Thanksgiving tradition. >>>> >>> >>> It goes really well with Victory Gin. (what's this sore on my leg?) >> >> HUH? >> We must have missed that over here, we got the whole freedom fries >> thing >> and pissed ourselves laughing at how stupid it all was, but it was a >> minor story behind all the other shit that was happening. >> I'm not surprised that the Turks didn't want in, despite the history >> of >> fawning for U.S. attention they have. Lets face it if it wasn't for >> the joining of NATO, positioning onto the Black sea and the middle >> east oil fields and placing nukes onto their soil Turkey would be >> right there on the shit list with Syria and Iran. >> However they have been bucking to join the E.U. for ages now and >> didn't >> want to piss off the French and Germans who already have grave >> reservations about them joining as well as the questions about the >> Cyprus vote being held at the time. >> Ted >> > > "Giant Freedom Bird" = figment of my imagination > "Victory gin" = figment of George Orwell's > Blergh sorry even more dopey than normal today, I'm not looking foreward to my mandarin lesson tonight, Claire is ill and can't go. It's been many many years since I last read 1984, infact thinking about it, hmm it's been er 21 years. Guess I failed Orwell 101 and should report to said room. Strangely enough I was talking about animal farm last night.I prefer Kafka anyway. Ted -- Stare too long into the abyss and the abyss looks like a nifty place to hide the bodies .