Subj : Re: BSG To : alt.tv.farscape From : John I Date : Tue Sep 27 2005 16:31:56 From Newsgroup: alt.tv.farscape weirdwolf wrote: > John I wrote in news:Xns96DE71554266oiwhnanri@ > 66.26.32.8: > >> John I wrote: >> >>> weirdwolf wrote: >>> >>>> John I wrote in >>>> news:Xns96DE6F6F95144oiwhnanri@66.26.32.8: >>>> >>>>> Tyler Trafford wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ken McElhaney wrote: >>>>>>> Tyler Trafford wrote: >>>>>>>> Ken McElhaney wrote: >>>>>>>>> TNW7Z7Z7Z12345 wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> But whatever Saddam did has no relation whatsoever to our >>>>>>>>>> treatment of prisoners of war. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I point it out because it keeps getting lost in the arguement. >>>>>>>>> That somehow everything in Iraq was peachy-keen (like Moore's >>>>>>>>> depiction of Iraqis flying kites in his film "Farenheit 911") >>>>>>>>> until we showed up. Again, ask the Kurds 'n Shia (who rarely >>>>>>>>> appear on tv since almost all the violence is happening in Sunni >>>>>>>>> territory) if the United States is just as bad or even in the > same >>>>>>>>> ballpark as Saddam. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't think anyone uses Abu Gharib as a reason the US shouldn't >>>>>>>> have gone over there. (Have they?) What happened there is a >>>>>>>> separate issue. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well, TNZ seems to think that our status among Iraqis dropped >>>>>>> waaaaay down because of what happened at Abu Ghraib. And my >>>>>>> response is that while what happened there was a black eye for the >>>>>>> US and everyone involved should be punished, the Kurds 'n Shia > (who >>>>>>> represent 80% of the country and were 100% the target of Saddam's >>>>>>> abuses) will not be as critical of what happened as we have been > to >>>>>>> ourselves. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can anyone think that the Kurds, who lost over 100,000 of their >>>>>>> fathers, brothers, sisters, sons 'n daughters to Saddam's men will >>>>>>> view Abu Graib in the same light? How about the Shia who lost > even >>>>>>> MORE of their people? Again, do they view us on the same level as >>>>>>> Saddam? Since they represent the vast majority of the Iraqi >>>>>>> population, isn't their view of what happened really important to >>>>>>> our future with their country? >>>>>> >>>>>> Ah, I see what you're saying. I think people will be more critical >>>>>> of the US though, as we often are to outsiders. >>>>>> >>>>>> Long term, who knows. >>>>>> >>>>>> It still blows my mind that no one in charge stopped what was going >>>>>> on in that prison. Morality aside, I am shocked that no one > foresaw >>>>>> the story getting out to the public -it's like a total disconnect >>>>>> from reality. >>>>> >>>>> There were individuals who recognized that it was wrong and reported >>>>> it. I think the key to understanding why no one in charge stopped > it >>>>> is that it was policy and it was encouraged by the people in charge. >>>>> >>>>> Also don't foorget that Bush I encouraged the Shia to revolt at the >>>>> end of the first Gulf war and then left them to be slaughtered. > That >>>>> didn't exactly instill trust. And the Kurds were killed with > American >>>>> weapons supplied by the Reagan admin with Cheney's and Rummy acting > as >>>>> liason to Saddam. Oh well. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Not to mention that the "no fly zone" was about as much use as a >>>> chocolate tea pot. >>>> Don't forget kids Iranian Kurds are so-so and can be ignored, > Turkish >>>> Kurds are bad, Iraqi Kurds are good. Unless of course there is an >>>> incursion by the Turkish army into Iraq in which case they become the >>>> bad Kurds and it's ok to let the army stand by and do nothing. >>>> Ted >>>> >>> >>> Remeber all the guff the Turks got from our idiot right-wing in the > run >>> up to Iraq? They got the French treatment because they were reluctant >>> to side with the US in its falsified rational for invasion. We are >>> still trying to figure out how to integrate "Giant Freedom Bird" into >>> the Thanksgiving tradition. >>> >> >> It goes really well with Victory Gin. (what's this sore on my leg?) > > HUH? > We must have missed that over here, we got the whole freedom fries thing > and pissed ourselves laughing at how stupid it all was, but it was a > minor story behind all the other shit that was happening. > I'm not surprised that the Turks didn't want in, despite the history of > fawning for U.S. attention they have. Lets face it if it wasn't for the > joining of NATO, positioning onto the Black sea and the middle east oil > fields and placing nukes onto their soil Turkey would be right there on > the shit list with Syria and Iran. > However they have been bucking to join the E.U. for ages now and didn't > want to piss off the French and Germans who already have grave > reservations about them joining as well as the questions about the Cyprus > vote being held at the time. > Ted > "Giant Freedom Bird" = figment of my imagination "Victory gin" = figment of George Orwell's .