Subj : Re: BSG To : alt.tv.farscape From : Ken McElhaney Date : Mon Sep 26 2005 13:37:42 From Newsgroup: alt.tv.farscape Tyler Trafford wrote: > Ken McElhaney wrote: > > > > Tyler Trafford wrote: > >> Ken McElhaney wrote: > >> > Tyler Trafford wrote: > >> >> Ken McElhaney wrote: > >> >> > Jim Larson wrote: > >> >> >> Tyler Trafford wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Ken McElhaney wrote: > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> John Iwaniszek wrote: > >> >> >> >>> Chaya wrote in > >> >> >> >>> news:Xns96DBD5A927011chayaruth@204.153.244.170: > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > RR wrote: > >> >> >> >>> > > >> >> >> >>> >> Jim Larson wrote: > >> >> >> >>> >> > >> >> >> >>> >>>>>>> That's some televisin' right there, that is.... > >> >> >> >>> >>>>>>> > >> >> >> >>> >>>>>> > >> >> >> >>> >>>>>> > >> >> >> >>> >>>>>> Yep....That's how it's done. > >> >> >> >>> >>>>>> > >> >> >> >>> >>>>>> That episode rocked. > >> >> >> >>> >>>>>> > >> >> >> >>> >>>>>> Caine was hard not to dislike. I'm trying to place the > >> >> >> >>> >>>>>> actress. > >> >> >> >>> >>>>>> > >> >> >> >>> >>>>>> What else has she been in? > >> >> >> >>> >>>>> > >> >> >> >>> >>>>> (STTNG. She played ensign Ro.) > >> >> >> >>> >>>> > >> >> >> >>> >>>> Michelle Forbes is on BSG? Neato. I've always thought she was > >> >> >> >>> >>>> ~smokin'~. > >> >> >> >>> >>>> > >> >> >> >>> >>> > >> >> >> >>> >>> She is, shall we say, less than likeable in BSG. (Although she > >> >> >> >>> >>> does a very good less than likeable, in my opinion.) > >> >> >> >>> >>> > >> >> >> >>> >>> By the way, since you were considering watching the show, I would > >> >> >> >>> >>> suggest not starting with the current episode featuring Michelle > >> >> >> >>> >>> Forbes. It's very good, but probably loses impact if you haven't > >> >> >> >>> >>> been along for the ride. > >> >> >> >>> >> > >> >> >> >>> >> I've decided to begin at the beginning with the mini/S1 box - and > >> >> >> >>> >> probably won't see the current eps 'til they hit DVD. > >> >> >> >>> >> > >> >> >> >>> > > >> >> >> >>> > Yeah, it's usually a bad idea to begin watching a series with the > >> >> >> >>> > season finale. > >> >> >> >>> > > >> >> >> >>> > ;) > >> >> >> >>> > > >> >> >> >>> > (I think you'll like it) > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> It's a cheap, cut-rate season finale. You one need ten episodes > >> >> >> >>> before it's shown. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> (By the way, I like science fiction that gets all allegorical and > >> >> >> >>> shit. BSG seems to do the job very nicely. > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> The Pegasus and Galactica diverged politically after the Cylon attack. > >> >> >> >>> Pegasus became a military dictatorship with fascist underpinnings > >> >> >> >>> while the > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Since there is no civilian component to the Pegusus, it's hard to > >> >> >> >> describe it as a "military dictatorship" since only military personel > >> >> >> >> are involved. Better to say standard military with a nutjob in command. > >> >> >> >> As for the "fascist" comment, yea, that's kinda accurate. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Well, there *was* a civilian component- Cain just drafted everyone she > >> >> >> > came across. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Aerospace Engineer Guy turned Deck Chief for instance. > >> >> > > >> >> > Wow, ONE guy gets drafted (how exactly was he drafted if the Pegusus > >> >> > left immediately?). Was he already on board and if so, wasn't he > >> >> > working FOR Cain anyway? > >> >> > >> >> He said he was on a civilian ship before the Pegasus found them. The > >> >> implication was rather strong that the Admiral had been forcing everyone > >> >> they came across into service. That was the point of that scene. > >> > > >> > Which certainly does NOT mean "military dictatorship". In times of > >> > emergency, civilians can get pulled into the ranks to fill skill > >> > positions. So John's use of the term "military dictatorship" is simply > >> > wrong. > >> > >> Maybe. > > > > "Military Dictatorship" implies military rule over a civilian populace. > > This does not appear to be the case with the Pegusus as there are > > apparently NO civilian ships or a large civilian contengent in her > > "fleet". Therefore, "military dictatorship" is the wrong term. > > > >> My first thought on hearing the engineer guy's story was that > >> Cain was probably planning on drafting everyone in Adama's group too, > >> including the president. No reason for dead weight. > > > > If that's the case, then the entire "democracy" subplot of BSG is > > worthless. Either the civilian government has authority or they do > > not. > > All governments lose authority when someone besides them is suddenly > holding the biggest gun. That's true. > Cain, obviously, believes that she is in ultimate command of all > remaining people- and so does the crew of her modern and lethal > Battlestar. She doesn't acknowledge any command above her's, so the > council of twelve has no authority on her ship(s). She can certainly believe what she wants, what's important is what Adama 'n the President believe. Apparently, the President is going along with Cain being in charge I guess (but perhaps that little plot element will resolve itself in the next episode). Also, Cain's "modern 'n lethal" battlestar is subject to the Cylon electronic pulse that crippled the original Colonial fleet (unless the BSG writers have forgotten that little bit of history). But again, this may resolve itself in the next episode. > > Sad to say the original series handled this bit a lot better with > > a "council of twelve" delegating emergency powers to Adama. Such an > > order can be taken back by the council if they so chose. If another > > battlestar shows up, the commander falls outside the current military > > structure and therefore, has no authority over the current military > > commander. Even if in the old days, she outranked him. > > Supreme authority is derived from a mandate from the masses, not from > some tarty council. But the Council represented the "mandate of the masses", as the Congress represents the "will of the people". If the "masses" do not like their represenative, then the represenative gets voted out. Again, the original show had a simpler, but more effective way of including the "civilian" element into the show. This new version seems to go to whatever the plot of the week dictates. > She outranks Adama because he believes she outranks him, and all the > people under Adama do what he says. Then Adama is pretty dumb. He should know that military authority derives from the concent of the civilian authorities. Otherwise, Adama is in command of the fleet and it makes no difference if Cain is an Admiral/Field Marshall/whatever. That government which recognized Cain as his superior is gone. Therefore, Adama is within his rights to ignore her when he sees fit. Again, I think this is simply a plot contrivance, rather than a well-thought out story arc, which has been my problem with BSG since the first episode. That the series is a collection of small sub-plots with little connection to each other. Relying on whatever circumstances fit the current dilema, rather than having a strong overarching storyline (like Farscape had). > (I think I may have once seen an old episode when I was six.) For what it was, not bad. It handled the Cain/Adama relationship better by making Cain a "living legend", but still under Adama's authority (when he chose to accept it). Both Bridges 'n Greene were more suited for their roles than Olmos 'n Forbes appear to be since those old guys radiated the sense of command. Forbes is under a hideous wig and Olmos looks constipated most of the time. I don't know what sense memory Olmos operates under, but looking as though his lunch is coming up does not give the viewers the sense that he's a guy people would want to follow. Ken .