Subj : Re: BSG To : alt.tv.farscape From : John I Date : Mon Sep 26 2005 18:50:19 From Newsgroup: alt.tv.farscape Tyler Trafford wrote: > Ken McElhaney wrote: >> >> John I wrote: >>> Tyler Trafford wrote: >>> >>> > Ken McElhaney wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Jim Larson wrote: >>> >>> Tyler Trafford wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> > Ken McElhaney wrote: >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> John Iwaniszek wrote: >>> >>> >>> Chaya wrote in >>> >>> >>> news:Xns96DBD5A927011chayaruth@204.153.244.170: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > RR wrote: >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >> Jim Larson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>> That's some televisin' right there, that is.... >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> Yep....That's how it's done. >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> That episode rocked. >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> Caine was hard not to dislike. I'm trying to place the >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> actress. >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> What else has she been in? >>> >>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> (STTNG. She played ensign Ro.) >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Michelle Forbes is on BSG? Neato. I've always thought she >>> >>> >>> >>>> was ~smokin'~. >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> She is, shall we say, less than likeable in BSG. (Although >>> >>> >>> >>> she does a very good less than likeable, in my opinion.) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> By the way, since you were considering watching the show, >>> >>> >>> >>> I would suggest not starting with the current episode >>> >>> >>> >>> featuring Michelle Forbes. It's very good, but probably >>> >>> >>> >>> loses impact if you haven't been along for the ride. >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> I've decided to begin at the beginning with the mini/S1 box >>> >>> >>> >> - and probably won't see the current eps 'til they hit DVD. >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> > Yeah, it's usually a bad idea to begin watching a series >>> >>> >>> > with the season finale. >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> > ;) >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> > (I think you'll like it) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> It's a cheap, cut-rate season finale. You one need ten >>> >>> >>> episodes before it's shown. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> (By the way, I like science fiction that gets all allegorical >>> >>> >>> and shit. BSG seems to do the job very nicely. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The Pegasus and Galactica diverged politically after the Cylon >>> >>> >>> attack. Pegasus became a military dictatorship with fascist >>> >>> >>> underpinnings while the >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Since there is no civilian component to the Pegusus, it's hard >>> >>> >> to describe it as a "military dictatorship" since only military >>> >>> >> personel are involved. Better to say standard military with a >>> >>> >> nutjob in command. As for the "fascist" comment, yea, that's >>> >>> >> kinda accurate. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Well, there *was* a civilian component- Cain just drafted >>> >>> > everyone she came across. >>> >>> >>> >>> Aerospace Engineer Guy turned Deck Chief for instance. >>> >> >>> >> Wow, ONE guy gets drafted (how exactly was he drafted if the >>> >> Pegusus left immediately?). Was he already on board and if so, >>> >> wasn't he working FOR Cain anyway? >>> > >>> > He said he was on a civilian ship before the Pegasus found them. >>> > The implication was rather strong that the Admiral had been forcing >>> > everyone they came across into service. That was the point of that >>> > scene. >>> >>> The contrast between the two colonial groups was quite clear: The >>> Pegasus group became an austere military society ruled by an autocrat >>> with a singleminded purpose, >> >> What group? The Pegusus seems to be the only ship in it's group, unless >> I missed something during the shaky CGI scenes showing the Pegusus >> surrounded by civilan ships. But even so, there would be no civilian >> command structure in the Pegusus's group since there were no surviving >> members of the Colonial governing body...at least none that has been >> established. >> >>>while the Galactica group clearly is trying to preserve >>> the civilian leadership and the civil society that should be the point >>> of most Liberal democracies. >> >> Well, "Liberal" democracies would put the civilian President in charge >> of the military. That does not appear to be the case here as Adama >> could simply inform the President of Cain's actions and she could fire >> her as Admiral. And there are plenty of precidents in US history to >> back that up. > > It doesn't matter who says they are President if the military follows > someone else and doesn't recognize her/his authority. Also, someone wasn't paying attention when I described the Galactica group as a form of liberal democracy where the military and the civilian government are in partnership, not one under the other in a strict chain of command. Their model is more like Turkey and less like Pakistan. A benign Military that doesn't govern but is willing to intervene if the greater good is threatened. We like the Galactica group and identify with them. That is why we are willing to cut them slack. The Pegasas group is a military dictatorship bent on conquest and control. That is why they seized on the incident where Adama abrogated the tribunal results (in a situation I am not familiar with). It is perfectly clear that the society evolving on Galactica group is aimed towards a Liberal democracy. Likewise it is perfectly clear that the Pegasas group is headed in the opposite direction. In other news, when I was watching 210, I was struck by the subtext surrounding the different ways the Fascist side treated their prisoner, versus the way that Galactica treated hers. It seemed remarkably coincidental with the new revalations about the Abu Ghraib atrocities: http://tinyurl.com/8ko7r From the HRW report (http://hrw.org/reports/2005/us0905/): "....Detainees at FOB Mercury were held in so-called oPUC tentso....The torture of detainees reportedly was so widespread and accepted that it became a means of stress relief for soldiers. Soldiers said they felt welcome to come to the PUC tent on their off-hours to oFuck a PUCo or oSmoke a PUC.o oFucking a PUCo referred to beating a detainee, while oSmoking a PUCo referred to forced physical exertion sometimes to the point of unconsciousness." .