Subj : 1:10/345 To : Michael Grant From : Roy Witt Date : Thu Nov 29 2001 09:22 am Hello Michael. 28 Nov 01 08:35, you wrote to me: MG>>> Ross has been vocal in the past in the feud between the Z1B and MG>>> the NAB; and it was a factor in my not joining the NAB; however, MG>>> of late he has been trying to smooth things over and let bygones MG>>> be bygones, until Todd jumped down his throat for no good reason; RW>> That's Todd for ya... MG>>> then you, ever the opportunist, have to add in your little MG>>> punishment just because you hate the man so much. RW>> Actually, Ross has been quite vocal in the echo when he needn't be. RW>> Netmail would have worked just fine to quell the tirade between he RW>> and Todd. MG> Ross Cassell has stated publically and often that the Z1B hubs do not MG> respond to his netmails. That's no problem...it just means they don't want to reply to you. End of story and it's time to move on. MG> It's a fact that has not been denied by the Z1B. If that mode of MG> communication does not work, you leave Ross no choice but to use MG> echomail. BS...ever hear of email or the landline? RW>> And don't forget, this isn't a punishment until Ross makes RW>> another slip up and breaks the rules here again. MG> Any "punishment" is the moderator's job. Dale was not the moderator, MG> but choose to impose a censorship of his own design upon Ross. So what? Has it come to be? Maybe it's time Ross minded his Ps and Qs in someone elses echo...perpetuating the backbone wars isn't doing the sysops any good. MG>>> I'm beginning to think that you have no interest in making MG>>> peace MG>>> with the NAB; you seem to do everything you can to further MG>>> inflame the situation and cause more animosity. RW>> Hmmmm. It'd be nice to stay neutral here; I didn't see Dale jumping RW>> on Ross' ass for his language, I saw David's message that he should RW>> hold it down. Then, instead of holding it down, Ross further RW>> inflamed the situation by ranting about how he was picked out as the RW>> instigator. MG> Look at time stamps. Ross responded /first/ to Todd, and didn't even MG> have time to respond to David's warning before Dale jumped all over MG> him. What harm has it done? Other than yourself making all kinds of waves about it, it's nice and peaceful now. Maybe the Z1B can finally get some business done. RW>> Meanwhile, David also told Todd to quit, being as how he's a Z1B RW>> Tier something hub and should know better. MG> I've commented on that. I felt David did the right thing; it was MG> Dale's actions that were unwarranted. It was also Ross's actions that were unwarranted. RW>> When Ross continued cutting Todd down and bitching about the RW>> message that he stop his use of language not wanted here, that's RW>> when I saw Dale jump into it with his ERN link cut - warning. MG> That happened /immediately/ after Todd's message. Ross was not even MG> given a chance to say one word afterwards; Dale issued his "edict" MG> immediately afterwards. Probably a good thing. RW>> How else is the moderator or Dale supposed to deal with Ross, RW>> the mail mover, without bothering those who link to both for RW>> echomail? MG> As a moderator, you know well that one must wait to see if the abuser MG> heeds the warning. But, as a moderator, I don't have to wait to act. I've had the feed cut arranged before I got an idea of what the abuser would do. That way, it happens right away instead of having to do the proof bit while someone is carrying on in the echo. MG> David issued a warning /after/ Ross' post, and Dale didn't wait for a MG> response from Ross. But it sure curtailed what the moderator had already warned Ross about in earlier posts. RW>> If he were to cut his echomail link, everyone would be cut off RW>> from this and a few other echoes, both sides of the cut. Then we RW>> all suffer. MG> And cutting links is better? Do you have a reading disability? MG> Should your uplink cut your link if you say something in a public MG> echo that he or she doesn't like? It's happened. I've seen moderators cut the feed of someone who said something bad about their moderating, in an echo not belonging to the moderator. Jack Sargent comes to mind. We kicked his butt around the MODERATOR echo for a month on that one. He finally changed his rules. RW>> Cutting Ross' ERN link doesn't make anyone suffer, as the links RW>> around Ross are still there with 1:106/1 and the other node, I RW>> forget the number. MG> Today it's only an ERN link; who's to say that tomorrow it won't be MG> an Echomail link? Ross Cassell. MG> We've already seen the RC12 cut an echomail link for no good reason. We both know that the RC12 and his followers are all idiots. RW>> I see Ross can't constrain himself, as he continues to answer RW>> these posts in the NAB and FN_SYSOP echoes. When he got very RW>> few replies and failed to bait Dale into the FN_SYSOP echo, he RW>> carried it into the NAB echo. MG> As I said; now they've made him into the great "boogey man", so yeah, MG> I'd speak out as well if I was in his position. ROTFL! Maybe they've got Ross's number. MG> OTOH if they had just warned him as moderators are /supposed/ to do, MG> he'd likely have shut up. His ravings elsewhere are the Z1B's own MG> doing. David and Dale both did, many times. RW>> That won't be any different than what he got in FN, so he's RW>> beating his brains out for nothing. Unless of course he gets RW>> some sympathy from Seaborn. Not much solice in that and I know RW>> Brenda won't get into it. Her phylosophy is 'move the mail' and RW>> forget the politics. MG> I very much respect Brenda Donovan; and it's in part the fact that MG> she was the Hub victimized by the politics of the Z1B that makes me MG> think that their practices are shameful. Don't believe for a minute that she's been victimized over this... MG>>> Some people seem to want a perpetual state of war, and you fit MG>>> that description to a tee. RW>> That's odd! I don't see Dale running all over Fidonet ranting and RW>> raving about this, nor anything else that's been said here in the RW>> past 6 or 8 months. MG> In the past 6 or 8 months, Ross has been trying very hard to be MG> diplomatic to the Z1B and try and smooth over the animosities he's MG> built up in the past. It';s not something that's easy for him to do, MG> but he clearly /was/ making an effort. I've been watching it closely MG> and with interest, despite the fact that I was silent on the issue MG> until now. I've been watching it as well and come away with a different point of view. MG> This is the thanks he gets for his efforts; he askes a question to MG> inform concerned downlinks what's going on with Todd's downlinks when MG> Todd's FTP server developed problems, even stating publically that MG> it's not a slight on Todd's abilities, but a genuine request for MG> information, and gets jumped all over by members of R12 and the Z1B MG> hubs just because they wrongly ASSume that he was attacking them MG> again. Their paranoia taints /everything/ so that that which is not MG> an attack, they still /view/ as an attack. I think you've gotten the wrong idea...I'll agree that the R12 nitwits have twisted a thorn in Ross, but he's no angel...don't get me wrong, I'd still be on Ross's side in that fight. .... Mental Floss prevents Moral Decay. --- Twit(t) Filter v2.1 (C) 2000 * Origin: 1998 FLAME echo - Asshole Of the Year! (1:10/22) .