Subj : 1:10/345 To : Chris Cranford From : Ross Cassell Date : Tue Nov 27 2001 07:46 am *** Answering a msg posted in area Z1BACKBONE (Z1B discussion). Hello Chris! 27 Nov 01 00:32, you wrote to Michael Grant: CC> As a peer from Dale's system, I do not expect any suffering by CC> me, my net, or my peers by the ERN link with 1:18/500 being CC> turned off. I dont intend to provoke Dale into turning it off, I dont agree with his reasoning either, Fidonet is a communications network, we all "communicate" in different ways, no one should be forced to follow someone elses script or code of conduct and bribed with it using ERN as the bargaining tool, but the ERN connection is more important in this case. Its too bad that 10/345 and 379/1 chose not to pursue an ERN connection with every matrixed TLH in the zone, instead of isolating themselves. CC> Futhermore, is ~15 min turn around for Netmail CC> going to be that big of a deal if 1:106/1 is going to be the only CC> route used by 1:379/1 for ERN traffic? This is not the point. CC> I mean seriously? The way I see it is if you want to send a CC> netmail and get a response in < 5 or < 10 minutes, send the CC> person an EMAIL or use AIM or something that leverages real-time CC> communication. CC> Fidonet has never been based on "realtime" communication and CC> the fact that people feel a 15 min (at most) delay in ERN CC> traffic through 1:106/1 just amazes me. It only amazes you because you havent been in Fido that long and that you havent been witness to the efforts that took place the last few years to improve mail delivery of all types. You are correct, if the dang message is so fire eating important, crashmail it direct, use email, use an instant messaging program heck use the telephone... To an extent this is not the point either. Some people prefer to use Fido things for those things Fido. Let me throw a term out to you, you may have heard before: Minutemail Every TLH in the zone, except for 106/1, processes mail _instantly_, this means upon its receipt its tossed and either sent on its way or ready for pickup. I have had netmail exchanges with a sysop one hop in between me and him, and the message propogation was as or almost as fast as internet email. Similiar message propogation occurs in echomail as well. Routed netmail delivery was a royal mess a few years ago Chris, in some respects there are "hot spots" where it still is, but by and large its a night and day difference between then and now.. The important factor is latentcy, not counting that which occurs between the time a sysop opens his reader and reads it and the time s/he might reply, if the mail movers can eliminate to the best they can, any that occurs in transport, then that is key and they themselves cant be held to blame, like they/we were 3 years ago. The best way to accomplish a minimal latentcy is for matrixed hubs to connect with the other, even if for just routed netmail. Then each hub using his or her connections to route netmail via the shortest and fastest path. There is a big deal if hops are un-necessarily added into a path a netmail would take... Example. Sender --> Hop1 --> Hop2 --> Hop3 --> Recipient The more hops a netmail has to take introduces variables such as: A. How often do the Hops in the path, connect with the other. B. Are the hops configured properly for the route, each and every one. C. Are any of the hops along the path having a connectivity issue? Each variable introduces a potential latency.. Same example, Hop1 optimizing his connections for a particular route: Sender --> Hop1 --> Hop3 --> Recipient Netmail means different things to different people, remember it was netmail that this network was founded on, routing it is a service for sysops is something many folk do enjoy as opposed to the alternative of crashing it direct and in the land of ION nodes, sometimes this isnt possible via the old ways. Remember, what may not be a big deal for you, might be for someone else? == Ross http://www.easternstar.info recassell@charter.net, ross@the-estar.com, ross@easternstar.info ICQ = 5305939 .... The R12 Al Queda Chapter Leader is Osama Bin Salter. --- GoldED+/W32 1.1.5-20011017 * Origin: The Eastern Star [Mail Hub] - 864.573.7069 (1:18/500) .