Subj : Re: Which Linux for a beginning desktop? To : comp.os.linux From : chris Date : Sun Feb 27 2005 07:35 pm Mxsmanic wrote: > chris writes: > >> Perhaps you don't understand the meaning of "bloated". > > I understand it only too well. It's the inevitable end state of just > about every software product ever written. > >> A base install of Windoze NT is about 450 Mb. > > My Mandrake Linux box says that a minimum installation requires 500 MB. You've either missed or refuse to understand the point. >> A base install of Linux is about 2 Mb, and if you add some basic CLI >> tools, >> it comes up to about 4 Mb. If you add a basic windowed desktop and a web >> browser, you might hit 40 Mb. > > Which Linux distribution is this? Any of them. Perhaps you don't understand what Linux actually is. > You realize that just the tarball for Firefox is 10 MB, right? And what has "Firefox" got to do with Linux? It's an application. >> Most Linux users use one or other of the mainstream distros, and these >> come with a CHOICE of desktop, a CHOICE of web browser, a CHOICE of web >> server, a CHOICE of complete Office suites, a CHOICE of graphics tools, a >> CHOICE of comprehensive software development tools, a CHOICE of >> multimedia programs, and lots of other goodies. > > And only a tiny fraction of the possible permutations have ever been > tested, and many of the untested ones don't work. Wrong. This is getting tiresome. > So you spend a lot of time trying to come up with a configuration in > which everything you need actually works. That can take hours ... or > days. Wrong. It takes minutes to get a fully working Linux system up and running. You don't really understand what's going on do you? >> You don't have to install anything you don't >> want or need, so you can make your installation as big or as small as you >> want. > > Unfortunately, it's hard to tell exactly what you need. You find that > out bit by bit when things refuse to work. Wrong again. If you insist, any competent modern distro will guide you through dependancies. You really don't have a clue. >> In the MS world, you have to pay for a web browser that works properly >> ... > > MSIE is free. MSIE isn't a proper web browser - it's not in any way standards compliant, and is so utterly flawed that it is unusable. Any fool using MSIE on the 'net deserves all the grief he gets. >> ... you have to pay for Office programs ... > > If you want them. The company has to make money somehow. They already make huge amounts of money from supplying their "operating systems". > Is Red Hat Enterprise given away for free now? Yes. Look at the terms and conditions on the enclosed paperwork. You are paying for the duplication of the disks, the documentation, and very competent support. >> If you installed a fully >> comprehensive MS-based system, with all the tools and facilities found in >> the average Linux distro, you'd pay THOUSANDS of pounds for the software >> and it would actually take up MUCH MORE disk space than the equivalent >> Linux install. > > Somewhat more, not necessarily much more. The great advantage, though, > is that it would work out of the box, and it would be supported if > anything went wrong. Wrong. The MS "paid-for" support is utterly useless. It was quite funny seeing thirty senior MS "engineers" at the premises of a well-known ISP over here. They had been flown over from the 'States at great expense to install and configure a huge Exchange Server system. Their level of competence was similar to that of my cat - they could push the keys on the keypad, but couldn't make sense of the replies on the screen. They wasted eight days, and couldn't get anything working, and left for the 'States, blaming the hardware and the hardware vendors. It took a couple of competent Linux engineers two days to get a RH-based system working properly on the same hardware..... > This isn't true for Linux or other free software > packages. And it's the major obstacle to widespread adoption of free > and open-source software. Never found it to be a problem. I've been writing and supporting software for almost 40 years, and will continue to do so, without ever using ANY proprietary code. It's just a matter of time before a large corporation suckered into buying crap by Bill Gates sues MS out of existence - there have been a few close calls lately - and as long as they continue to ship their fundamentally broken rubbish, we in the OS world have nothing to fear. MS have NEVER shipped ANY properly working software. Perhaps you should go back to your trojans and viruses and not bother with Linux. C. -- Everything gets easier with practice, except getting up in the morning! .