Subj : Re: Mandrake vs Suse
To   : comp.os.linux
From : Willem van der Berg
Date : Thu Aug 26 2004 08:13 pm

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 06:24:36 -0700, SkipC wrote:
> Didn't your country bomb and attack other countries & started two
> world wars within the past century? I'm sure it seemed right at the
> time, but maybe not.

No, I believe my country is the one which was occupied for 5 years. But
then again, Dutch & Deutsch only differ one letter. On the other hand, The
Netherlands is America's biggest investor in the world and we are no
banana republic, so it ought to be part of your general education to at
least know the difference between Germans and Dutch. I can assure there
are still a lot of people who would not take kindly to being considered
the same group. They are stereotyping just like you did in your previous
post.

> Guess you're right in many ways. I don't mean to blame anyone
> needlessly and certainly meant no ill feelings towards a fellow Linux
> follower. It would be nice if the world didnt think we're a
> mean-spirited people tho. All I know is, every American I've
> befriended in my life is loving, peaceful & respectful of others. I'm
> not saying I agree with everything our leaders do, but I feel sure
> they're not evil people or villains as the world portrays. Nothing
> like Hitler, that's for sure, and nothing like Saddam Hussein.

No offense, but that is kind of universal. All my friends are ehhh...
friendly. Else they wouldn't be friends. 

I cannot possibly blame you for not considering Bush up there with Hitler
and Stalin. Doing so would be slightly over the top even for me. But it is
definitely undeniable that America present day resembles in many ways Nazi
Germany before the war. I hope this is not perceived as America-bashing,
because actually I think quite highly of America. But the current
situation is worrying is many ways and like I said, there are some very
curious sememblances.

> Guess maybe we should have stayed out of Iraq and let him continue to
> kill all his political enemies while living a life of luxury at his
> people's expense. It would have been fine with me, I can assure you.
> I'd personally rather see us leave Iraq and let the rival factions
> fight it out amongst themselves. It's surely not worth our time to try
> and bring democracy to other countries that don't seem to desire it.
> Maybe we should probably have stayed out of Germany? What business was
> it of ours if Hitler continued on? Interesting thought..

Well the problem is not so much Iraq. It is the continuous interference of
America in foreign affairs. A lot of wars were waged after America decided
one party (quite often the wrong one) should be supported with arms or
money or aid (or even military manpower). The Taliban were brought to
power with America's support. Saddam Hussein was supplied with the means
to attack the Kurds and Osama Bin Laden was one of America's biggest
allies.

Let me remind you that Saddam Hussein was no loving guy. But he certainly
wasn't as evil as Western media (including my domestic media) portraited
him to be. Iraq was in fact one of the more prosperous, well-educated and
relatively free nation in the region. Look that up and you will see that I
am right.

You cannot bring democracy to other nations, as your idea of what
democracy is (and considering it as something isolated) is flawed.
Besides, as it stands America is one of the least democratic nations of
the western world. Not something you want to hear, probably something you
oppose but definitely true. If you are willing, I invite you to refute
this.

> Anyway, again I'm sorry if my comments came off as arrogant. I'm not,
> that's all I can say in response. I will however lean towards buying
> products made within my country. Call it investing in our economy or
> whatever.. That's not meant to send any ill-will.. Just a decision I've
> made to support my nation. I'm sure if you had a choice between buying
> something from the US or your own country, you'd feel the same. Here's
> hoping to a better future for all of us.

Don't get me wrong here Skip. There is nothing wrong with a litle
patriotism. I am trying - I admit, through a bit of clashing- to point out
to you that your current views are too limited and you ought to
re-evaluate your beliefs. Sure I feel 'attacked' in some way, but I hope
that you can see through that and come out more informed than you were.
Perhaps you are not arrogant, prove it to yourself by not simply ignoring
my and other people's words in this thread.

As you might have picked up, I hold individuality in one of the highest
regards. Even I sometimes slip, but I never want to speak in terms of 'we'
when things concern the Dutch. You were born in America, I was born in
Holland. Just coincidence. You have as much in common with your fellow
Americans as you have in common with everyone else on the planet. Fairly
little. So don't speak your opinion and present it us 'we', 'us'.

Regards,
Willem

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