Subj : Re: How to respond to infeasible advice? (was: Software Job Market Myths) To : comp.programming,comp.software-eng From : Phlip Date : Thu Aug 18 2005 06:20 pm Robert Maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t wrote: > That's not true. For some values of 'that', I don't have the resources > to perform the task, don't have any money to purchase the resources, > and am not the kind of person to mug people on the street to get the > money to buy the resources, nor the type of person to shoplift at > Fry's Electronics to directly get the needed equipment. This has never stopped me. > For other values of 'that', I do have the resources, so if the idea > seems worthwhile I go ahead and give it a try. Such as "be cheerful", "read a book on career management", and stop writing web pages that say "I'm winning-challenged"? > When the modem on my laptop was working, I tried downloading J2EE, > installing it, and then tried using it for my Distributed Java class. > It took 6-8 hours on my 39MB-RAM Linux laptop to install a single > sample EJB application that came with the J2EE documentation, and once > installed I learned that deploytool had a bug whereby it was impossible > to upgrade the EJB to match changed source (ANT compiled the source > just fine, but deploytool claimed the EJB was already up to date and > refused to install the changed code). That's nothing. I just tried to install Java, and I found a clicker in Sun-land called "Windows Platform - J2EE SDK 1.4_02-2005Q2 UR2 FCS / J2EE SDK 1.4 UR2, English". So I click this thing, and spend 8 hours downloading stuff that I know I will never use, and which is now impossible to get rid of. Then I install it (with a dog-slow installer that slows all my other apps down), and open a new CMD.EXE command prompt. Then I type Java and Javac, and nothing happens. How am I expected to figure out how to use this thing?? Did I actually download Java, or something (obviously) compiled _with_ Java? > I tried installing other kinds of > J2EE applications, and the only one that both installed and was > updatable (but *without* using deploytool) was the JSP application, > where you don't need deploytool to update the application, you just > edit the JSP source and the next time you try to load that application > the server auto-compiles it. I also found that with J2EE running on my > 39MB-RAM Linux laptop, the whole system was horrendously slow, with it > taking appx. 20 seconds just to switch to a different window when I > clicked on it. We are up against two of Java's notorious difficulties. It expects a humongous memory arena, or it swaps like crazy. And all these things beginning with J have grown incestuously within an existing Java community. They installed when it was easy and have simply upgraded ever since. This profoundly disadvantages any newcomers, because Sun has no incentive to leave a trail of breadcrumbs along the most direct paths through their jungle. > So then I spent several weeks working out a hack to bypass the > deploytool bug that affects all applications except JSP applications, > and the slow-computer situation that affected **everything** on the > computer whenever J2EE was running, and finally was able to complete > the HttpServlet homework assignment, by cross-circuiting from the > working JSP application to a fake HttpServlet interface that I wrote > myself that could run in both J2EE mode (from the JSP) and J2SE mode > (from a test rig I wrote myself). So I could do all my development in > J2SE mode using the test rig, then switch to J2EE STOA (*) mode for > final validation test about once per day or two when I had a major > feature fully implemented and working in the test rig. Way. I wish I could even get that far. > * (Slow Talkers Of America - Bob and Ray comedy skit) > > So here's the deal: If somebody suggests something for me to do, but I > don't have the resources to do it, should I: > #1 Just ignore them and let them wonder why I never responded? You could switch to Ruby. It installs in 9 seconds, it doesn't thrash all your caches, it comes with multiple GUI Toolkits and multiple CGI systems, it installs new modules in one command line ("gem"), and it has an infinitely better OO system than Java. > #2 Tell them honestly what resources I don't have that would be needed > to do what they suggested? Maybe we can work out an alternate idea > that is similar to what was suggested but which is within my means, > if we talk about it. Try to do what they said, get stuck, and ask a polite and cheerful question to the appropriate forum? > My access to the net is VT100, so it's impossible to enable images. > Google actively discriminates against disabled people trying to use > their online services. If anybody knows of any agency in this area > which helps disabled people fight such discrimination, please tell me. You ain't disabled. Don't play the victim. And I thought Google detected and responded correctly to text-mode browsers like Lynx. -- Phlip http://www.greencheese.org/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!! .