Subj : Re: How much should I charge for fixed-price software contract? To : comp.programming,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.lisp From : Tim X Date : Tue Aug 16 2005 08:29 pm rem642b@Yahoo.Com (Robert Maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t) writes: > > From: Tim X > > Your resume is completely incorrect - its too long > > Let me check it right now: > http://members.tripod.com/~MaasInfo/SeekJob/Resume.98B.txt > That's 60 lines of text. You're correct, it's too long too many lines. > How many lines is the maximum for a resume? If you have a lot of "meat", you can possibly go as long as 3 pages - but thats not 3 pages of plain ascii, thats 3 pages correctly formatted in an "accepted" format - MS Word Doc or PDF. Normally, about 2 pages of formatted text (with headings, columns, tables, bold/italic/unerline etc. > > its badly formatted > > It looks formatted pretty well given the one-page restriction and plain > ASCII text, but perhaps you have some specific changes you'd like? Plan ascii text won't do it. People like to see something which is presented well - it shows effort, ability to use a word processor and possibly some style. Your resume needs to be eye catching and it needs to be presented in such a way that the person reading it can identify the key bits immediately and not have to read the whole thing. You have to remember in larger organisations, the initial culling of applications is usually done by some junior staff member from the HR department - they know nothing about programming, computer or IT. They have a list of key words or criteria which they look for - those that have it get to the next stage, those that don't get filed in the round filing cabinet under the desk! > > > and lots of it is totally irrelevent in the current market. > > What specifically? I'd be glad to cut out parts that the majority of > people in this newsgroup consider so grossly worthless that I shouldn't > include them even though I spent a lot of time doing those things and > it would really be dishonest to exclude them, but if dishonesty by > omission is necessary to get a job I'm willing to bend. So which items > specifically should I delete? Well, as you have soooo many resumes at the web site, I couldn't be bothered reading all of them (hint). The one I looked at had lots about programming assembler on computers that haven't be around for 20+ years i.e. PDP-10. All of that could have been summarised as something like x years assembler programming. this would show you have that skill - the specifics is not that relevant unless the job had a specific requirement. Again, the objective is to just peak interest, not tell them all the detail. > > You need to do a well formatted CV > > No, I most definitely do not want a CV for applying for non-academic > jobs doing software development. > http://jobsearch.about.com/cs/curriculumvitae/a/curriculumvitae.htm > http://www.careers.ucr.edu/students/graduates/cvsample.html > http://jobsearch.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurograduate.com%2Fplan2.html > http://www.quintcareers.com/curriculum_vitae.html > http://www.careers.ucr.edu/Students/Graduates/CV/ > I want a resume, not a CV, because a resume, not a CV, is what is asked > by *all* job ads I've seen in this area. You can use CV or resume - these days, the two are pretty interchangable. Generally, a CV indicates you have a degree. However, use what you feel most comfortable with and stop nit pickiing - you know perfectly well what I was getting at. > > clearly labelled in sections with brief but informative text. > > It's already that. What are you complaining about?? The one I looked at was not clearly labelled and looked pretty bloody awful. > > Employment Histor (from most recent to oldest) > > My most recent employment is more than ten years ago. I've gotten good > advice *not* to make my lack of recent employment a major attraction in > my resume, or it'd be tossed before any of the good stuff would ever be > seen. You don't have any "good stuff"! Normally, that advice would be pretty good, but you need to show that you can hold down employment and if you don't put it in, you have nothing. Besides, the resume I looked at had stuff going all the way back to high school and all your employment from the 70's. If your going to put it all in, put it in reverse order. > > I've also been advised very strongly not to include any employment more > than ten years ago, and to only summarize anything between five and ten > years ago, not list it individually. Well, thats not what was in the resume I looked at. > > Programming Lnaguages > > (Usually, you would only include languages you have used commercially) > > I've never used any programming language commercially, except 2.5 weeks > of Think C 9n 1992. then your stuffed. > > if you only listed all your experience with assembler on PDPs etc, > > then its unlikely you would be considered except in the very unlikely > > case where some company had an old PDP-10 and just happened to need an > > assembly programmer. However, if on the other hand you presented > > yourself as someone with a proven track record of workinig in > > assembler, someone with a good grasp of low level hardware programming > > and someone capable oflearning, then possibly you would be thought of > > when that job comes up workinig on developing software for that new > > chip xxxxxx. > > Well there was one resume I wrote that didn't say any specifics at all, > no PDP-10 or 6502 or 8080 or 68000 or IBM-1620 or IBM-1130, only the > number/variety of different things I did to emphasize how I've learned > so many different languages/environments/applicationAreas that surely I > can easily learn five or ten more on a new job. > http://members.tripod.com/~MaasInfo/SeekJob/Resume.942.txt > It's only 57 lines, three lines shorter than the other. Maybe you'd > like it better? No, it still looks like crap. > > forget all about that stuff regarding decoding URI elements > > etc - thats just trivial stuff, a real no brainer for which you can > > usually find pre-existing libraries/modules to do all the work > > anyway. > > I agree. That's why for C and C++ I used Google to find a free set of > code to do the form-contents-decoding, not part of a large library, but > just a standalone piece of already-debugged (almost, I had to fix a few > bugs before they'd work on this system) that would be small enough that > I could show it as part of my demo of how to do CGI/C and CGI/C++ > software. I made sure the C code was pure C, no cheating by using stuff > that the Gnu C/C++ compiler or Visual-C++ compiler could fake in C > program even though it wasn't valid ANSI C but was actually C++. Also I > made sure the C++ code was true C++ code in both standard and style, > not C code that got minimal transformation to run under C++ > environment but which was actually C at heart and only sham of C++. In 25 years involvement in IT, I've never once been asked to show a demo. In the past 10 years, I cannot remember the number of selection committees etc I've been on and not once have we ever asked to see a demo. think of it this way - 1. You send off an application which includes a 1 page covering letting, your resume and possibly, if asked for in the ad, demonstration (in words) of how you meet the selection criteria. If they do list selection criteria, address each of them individually with clear headings and don't use more than 1 or two paragraphs for each. If they don't list or ask for you to demonstrate how you meet each criteria, make your covering letter a bit longer (no more than two pages) presenting a convincing argument why you should be selected for interview and what you think you have of benefit to them. The only goal at this point is to make them believe your worth interviewing either because you meet all the selection criteria or because you bring something new to the table which peaks their interest. > > you are almost guaranteed never to get any ral work consulting > > because you have no recent proven track record and no track record in > > current technologies. > > I tried looking for regular employment for years, but lots of people > told me that was impossible, that I need to get some short-term > contract work, and then with that proven track record some company > might risk hiring me on the longer term, in fact one of the short-term > contracts might develop into a long-term job. So you see I get so much > contradictory advice that I really have to ignore most of it, and > accept only that which doesn't contract a lot of other advice I also > get. That rarely works. You are almost never ever going to get contract work or consulting work without a proven current track record. Nobody is going to take the risk of getting fired for employing someone with no proven ability or track record - even if they thought you were very capable and possibly a good choice, they will go with the safer person who has (or appears to have) a good track record. > > Your technical commercial experience is outdated > > My only technical commercial experience, except for 2.5 weeks in 1992, > is within the past 2.2 years. How can you say such recent experience is > outdated? Are Visual Basic, C, C++, and Java, all outdated, in your > opinion? No, they are not outdated, but you do not have any real commercial experience in any of those - stuff you have done on your own does not count for anything - its only commercial experience they are interested in and since by your own admission you have not had a job in ove 10 years, I can't see how you could claim Java experience (nor C/C++ for that matter). > > Unless you can convince an employer that you have something which the > > others don't and its something the employer considers valuable, you > > have no hope. > > I have a lot of good talent and skills, valuable to an employer, that > most others don't have. Maybe you can help me convince an employer to > recognize that? No, you are the one who has to convince them. However, your argumentative attitude, constant blaming of your situation on external forces and (unfairly) your age are all against you. I do not see you getting a job as a Java, C or C++ programmer in this lifetime. > > I have to wonder why you haven't been trying to get more specific > > programming jobs that relate to what seems to have been one of your > > strength areas. > > Your question is based on a false premise. I **have** been trying to > get programming jobs in areas where I have expertise (educational > software, information retrieval/access, etc.), but I've never been able > to find anyone interested in my skills in those areas. The closest I > ever came was when my former boss referred me to a company that did > educational software for children, and took me on a tour of what they > were doing, but none of it was actually educational where it actually > makes sure a child learns something, it was all play-explore stuff > which is fine for spending idle time getting familiar with some stuff > that looks interesting but is totally insufficient at making sure the > child ever really learned anything. It's like a computer version of the > child watching Sesame Street all day. Yeah, the child eventually picks > up a few things here and there, but there's no competance at anything. > So anyway I was told they aren't interested in any software that > actually teaches the child anything, only in making sure the child > enjoys the experience of playing with the computer games, so none of my > experience is of any value there. I must have missed the part in your resume which outlined your commercial experience in writing educational software. All I saw was work at Santa Cruz and Stanford - but I could easily have missed it as the resume was not very well formatted and very boring. I have to admit, I lost interest about half way through (which should tell you something). > > why not look for jobs with companies doing software which has a > > strong mathematical basis - modelling, communications, signal > > processing etc. > > I have no experience in the kind of modeling you're talking about, nor > in any signal processing whatsoever. The only communications jobs I've > seen required specific experience managing/configuring TCP/IP stacks, > which I've never done. I suggested this because your degree was in mathematics, your awards at school were in mathematics and you obviously (I thought) had an aptitude in this area. Finding programmers with really good solid backgrounds in maths is actually qite difficult - thre seems to be a lot of programmers out there which have mastered programming, but are very poor in maths. I know of quite a lot of companies who have had a very difficult time finding good programmers which are also talented at maths. Some of the most interesting programming jobs I've seen fall into this catagory. Lets face it, web application programming can be extremely dull and there are lots of people willing to do it. However, programming in areas relating to things like modelling of complex systems, stock breeding/genetics, processing signals from various sensors, application of technology in new areas etc, can be extremely rewarding. Personally, I find this sort of work far more interesting than web apps or basic information storage and retrieval. While there may not be as many jobs in these areas, there is also a lot less competition. Also, in these types of jobs, they tend to be less interested in your knowledge of the "hot" language technology and mroe interested in your abilities to solve problems etc. > > Why are you even bothering trying to compete in an area which is > > flooded with programmers (Java/Web) > > Because Java is my second-best language, my best being Lisp, and there > are no jobs whatsoever in Lisp, whereas 2.5 years ago I actually saw a > job ad for Java that I would have qualified for a year later. So I'm > only one year away from a chance at a Java job, whereas twenty years > away from any other kind of job. If thats the case, I would *strongly* suggest you give up looking for a programming job - apart from not ahving any experience, I'm now skeptical about your ability to program. The reason I make such an outrageous statement is that I beleive the language is, in the main, irrelevant. What is more important is your understanding of the underlying concepts (data structurers, algorithms, analytical skill and the ability to apply these skills). etc). The language is just syntax and less important. I've often employed people who did not have much experience in the specific language being used, but had excellent understanding of data structures, algorithms and their analysis and the ability to take a problem, analyse it and design a robust and maintainable solution. In fact, nearly every time I've changed jobs, I've ended up having to learn a new language. Like the book titles say "Learn XXX in 21 Days" - you only need that long to learn the syntax - it takes a lot longer to learn how to analyse a problem, identify the correct data abstractions and algorithms and then implement the solution - the implementation is the easy part (assuming you got the earlier steps correct). > > Play to your strengths! > > Show me one job opening that matches my strenghths in Lisp programming > or computer-assisted instruction. Again, I woldn't consider those to really be strengths. Your strengths are (possibly) in your rigor and ability to abstract a problem down to its fundamental parts (coming from a maths background), possibly your life experiences, possibly skills you developed in what little work you have had etc. I will employ the prson who fits in with the rest of the team, shows they are self motivated and have initiative and keen before I'll ever employ that bitter twisted arrogant and difficult loner who has 10 yeras experience with the language we use - its much easier to teach simple language syntax than to change someones personality or waste resources getting them motivated etc. Tim -- Tim Cross The e-mail address on this message is FALSE (obviously!). My real e-mail is to a company in Australia called rapttech and my login is tcross - if you really need to send mail, you should be able to work it out! .