Subj : Re: Software Job Market Myths To : comp.programming,comp.software-eng From : p.kootsookos Date : Sat Aug 13 2005 02:55 pm Richard Heathfield writes: > [I would have set followups, only I don't think the subject is really > topical in either group! Surely one of the many employment groups would > have been a better bet?] Ya, but this is where it started. :-) > It's a useful indicator nevertheless, when reading CVs. For example, if > someone claims to have fifteen years experience of C++, and is aged 22, > then you can deduce that either their honesty or their understanding of > arithmetic is somewhat flawed. OK. > > Qualifications and companies worked for are certainly valid! > > As a matter of fact, I think they are more or less irrelevant. I've had to > teach CS graduates how to write programs because they were hired on the > false assumption that anyone with a CS degree would know this. And one of > the most clueless programmers I ever talked to was a Microsoft employee. > (If you think about it, that isn't actually an MS-bashing statement!) Acutally, I think they are very relevant --- for precisely the reasons you give that they are irrelevant. I've hired a few people, and seeing how well the paper person matches up with the reality is always a useful exercise. > Your impressive-sounding qualifications do not necessarily accurately > reflect your knowledge, and your impressive collection of company umbrellas > does not necessarily accurately reflect your experience. So a potential > employer should take them with a huge pinch of salt. I agree; I've seen fradulent resumes during the post-mortem after people were fired (or quit). It's a bit of an eye-opener. > With that thought in mind, if I were designing an application form, I would > not bother to put an age field on there, or even a DOB field, despite my > earlier point about it being a useful indicator. And that's because I > wouldn't bother putting a former employer section or a qualification > section on the form. Instead, I'd put in an aptitude test. > > Anyone who rates themselves so highly that they feel insulted by being asked > to do an aptitude test... need not apply. I'm tempted to agree, but I also have a lingering doubt that things like that can lead to too little "diversity" (to use the PC term). Having a range of outlooks and personality types in a group can make the group stronger. > Anyone who makes no more than, say, two mistakes on the test would be > invited for interview. > > At the interview, one thing I'd do is present the applicant with several > code fragments [SNIP] Sounds like a very good way to see if people will fit in. But again, some people don't necessarily show their best sides when put into those situations. > I suspect that this would be a far more effective strategy than relying on > the experience people claim on their CVs. It has its flaws. I've seen people able to BS their way through such styles of interview. Granted, these people are generally very talented, but they are also very talented at feigning depth and expertise without actually having it. And don't tell me you never have an off day. :-) Ciao, Peter K. .