Subj : Re: How much should I charge for fixed-price software contract? To : comp.programming,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.lisp From : Scott Ellsworth Date : Tue Jul 12 2005 02:56 pm In article , rem642b@Yahoo.Com (Robert Maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t) wrote: > > From: michael@bcect.com (Michael Sullivan) > > Programmers can't ask for minimum wage, because professional > > programmers *don't* *get* *paid* *minimum* *wage*. > > Your comment is irrelevant because I don't ask for money from anyone, > not minimum wage, not any amount whatsoever. It makes no sense to ask > money from somebody who has never indicated any willingness to pay me > whatsoever. Having read your initial post, and this one, I have what may sound like a hostile suggestion. I really do not mean it to be, but I have not found a comforting way to say this. Your attitude, from the outside, _appears_ to be one that will offend many potential employeers. I am not saying it is, just that it sure sounds somewhat combative and angry. Employers want to see eagerness to do the work, combined with an awareness of how what you do will make them more money, or will let them accomplish their goals. You are implicitly asking them for money, even if you are not holding out your hand the moment you walk in the door. Part of your task is to convince them that you are someone they want to give money to, in return for what you offer them. That you are someone that they want to spend time with, really. For me, a big part of that is showing such a potential client that they will make more money, more sales, more science, whatever, by having me help them, and that the time they spend will be pleasant, rather than combative. I am consultant. I solve problems for people, so they can get more done. If someone calls, I may well go out on spec, with no written contract. I may spend a day or two talking to them, building a proposal, and other good stuff like that. Even though I do not quote a rate, or a point at which I will stop, they know that this work is supported by the eventual contract we hope to sign. Thus, if we do not seem, in my opinion, to be making progress, I may stop talking to them. Not in anger, just because I eventually have to do work that earns money. Consulting groups like ours charge between $100 and $150 an hour, depending on the exact skill set of the person at the client. To earn that, a consultant has to earn them roughly $4000-$7500 a week, and we always keep that number in the back of our minds. We earn them that, because we have done this before, and we know what works for the markets we are familiar with. We may spend a month on the beach getting a new technology to the point where we can charge those rates, perhaps in the context of an open source project. If you do not have a good track record, you still need to be charging enough to justify their time. If the person you interact with earns $50 an hour, then one marathon meeting can cost the company more than your weekly salary or bill. I would not go below $15 an hour, and something in the $30-$50 sounds a lot closer to what I would expect for a reasonably experienced and competent software guy. The true rate, of course, really depends on what you can do for a potential employer. As an salaried employee, you should only half to two thirds of that hourly rate goes to you - the rest goes to benefits, overhead, and the like. Look at how much the work you propose to do would be worth to them, then charge accordingly. You do not get all the money you save them, but you should get a reasonable fraction, and should be able to explain why that is a reasonable fraction. If you do not know what your skills are worth, find an open source or a volunteer non profit, and do some work for them. Then watch really carefully for chances to get more done, or to save money by providing a decent service. This is how you know what that dollar figure is. I am not trying to be flippant, nor am I trying to be mean. The above touchy-feely stuff is the best way I know to explain how you justify a potential wage to someone, and even if you want to do the work for free, you still should know what that work is worth. Scott -- scott@alodar.nospamtome.com Java and Database consulting for the life sciences -- Scott Ellsworth scott@alodar.nospam.com Java and database consulting for the life sciences .