Subj : Re: Software Job Market Myths
To   : comp.programming,comp.software-eng
From : Randy
Date : Wed Jun 29 2005 01:12 pm

CTips wrote:
> Terry wrote:
....
>>Misconceptions:
>>
>>1. Any good programmer requires $60,000 to $90,000 per year or more.
>>(Wrong. They may only require $40,000, or less, depending on the job. Entry
>>level programmers just out of college, many of whom are very capable, can be
>>hired for $30,000. It's not the 1990s anymore. There are many unemployed
>>engineers. The crazed demand for programmers is gone. Programmers require no
>>more pay than intelligent, educated, skilled workers in other professions.)
> 
> 
> Ummm...any good programmer will *start* at $80k+. In our company, I 
> don't think we would hire anyone who didn't want at least that much. And 
> based on the competition we've been having for these people, I suspect 
> that there are a lot of people who think exactly like us.
> 
> Of course, this does depend on what you mean by *good* programmer. For 
> entry level (at our company) I'm talking about C.S. Ph.D.s or M.S. + 5 
> yrs experience, a considerable amount of background knowledge (knowing 
> Knuth cold helps), and a decent amount of programming expertise (say, 
> about a 50kloc solo systems project).
> 
> The difference between programming and other fields is that the 
> productivity between a good programmer and an average one is order(s) of 
> magnitude, which doesn't show up in the salary differential. Example: A 
> $100k programmer will outproduce 10 $40k programmers. Therefore its 
> cheaper to hire the best programmers one can find.

Most sources I've seen indicate starting salaries for a BS in CS is
about $47K.  Of course, this is the median, so there will be examples
well below and well above, mostly depending on geography, urban-ness,
and the nature of the work.  If you work in DSP, you make more.  If you
generate financial reports, you make less.

Likewise, a large fraction of programmers do not have degrees in CS.
With few exceptions, they will make less than will a BS in CS.

Lumping together all programming jobs and all forms of academic
preparation into a single assertion that programmers *can* be had for
less than $X is obvious and meaningless.

Methinks Phlip has struck.  Do not feed the trolls.

    Randy

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