Subj : Re: OT Military To : All From : Cherokee Date : Tue Jan 14 2003 10:50 am I don't care how many people come into the country LEGALLY to provide labor for our economy. I don't care where they come from. I don't care what color their skin is or what language they speak, or what wage they are willing to work for. What I am agains wrong .. I think alot of tha depends on Where U were born and how U were raised ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cherokee" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 3:38 PM Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: [twgsdotorg] > > Assuming that everything you say is correct, and for the sake of > argument I will grant that, then the problem is still not the death > penalty. The problem is a justice system that does not provide > adequate defense for poor defendants, and couhe t police willing to > torture suspects to obtain false confessions. I would be all for any > type of reform that increased the accuracy of our justice system. > > Death penalty opponents always use the scenario of the "innocent death > row inmate" to try to argue against the penalty. I'm sur this happens > occasionally, but I believe it is far less frequent than death penalty > opponents claim. > > But what about the truly guilty? Do you think those who are truly > guilty of capital crimes should be put to death? If you answer "no", > then you should explain why the death penalty in general is wrong, > rather than relying on the old "an innocent person could die" argument. > > > > > --- The Mad Hatter wrote: > > > > > > > > Check CNN, MSNBC, Nytimes.com, etc., all of the major news sites > > covered it. > > > > And yes, these people were innocent. Through DNA testing (which was > > not available when many of them were convicted), research, etc. the > > convictions were overturned, and in several cases the real > > perpetrator was convicted. > > > > 8 of the convictions were obtained by confessions that were extracted > > under torture. The officer who obtained those convictions has been > > removed from the police department, however he has not as yet been > > jailed (I was unable to even find reference to him being charged). > > > > The Criminal Justice systems of both Canada and the United States > > have errored with great regularity. A conviction in a court of either > > country does not mean that you are guilty, it often means that you > > could not afford a good lawyer. Harsh but true. > > > > What is really scarey about this is that you stand a better chance of > > getting justice in Canada or the United States (even with all the > > faults of both systems) than you do almost anywhere else. > > > > The Mad Hatter > > > > >From a message by Cherokee about Re: [twgsdotorg]: > > > I would like to know the source of your statistics, in particular > > the > > 23 Illinois men who were "innocent". > > > > These cases are almost NEVER cases of truly innocent men being > > convicted, sentenced to death, and then exonerated. Rather, they are > > usually cases in which some legal technicality allowed the men to go > > free. In every such case, the body of evidence was enough to convince > > a > > jury of reasonable people beyond a reasonable doubt, that the > > defendant > > was guilty. > > > > > > > > --- The Mad Hatter wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > There are three good reasons that the Death Penalty is a dead issue > > > in Canada. The Killer M's, David Millgard, Donald Marshall, and Guy > > > Paul Morin. > > > > > > All three of these gentlemen were convicted of murder, all > > > exonerated. > > > > > > For those who say it couldn't happen in the USA, I suggest you look > > > at Illinois where in the last 10 years 23 inmates who were on death > > > row were later found innocent. > > > > > > The point of this being (for both Sanders and Cherokee who seem > > > unable to find it) is that government is best kept starved and > > > inoffensive, so that it cannot interfere with the lives of the > > > citizens. All governments should be kept this way - consider Saddam > > > Hussein if his government was defanged. He'd end up looking like > > the > > > Stay-Pufft Marshmellow Man. > > > > > > Government is not he solution to the problem - it is the problem. > > > > > > The only good politician is a dead one (they don't raise taxes). > > > > > > The best government is the least government, and the least > > government > > > is no government at all. > > > > > > Taxation is theft. > > > > > > Why is the U.S. Government so hard on the Mafia? They don't like > > > competition. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Mad Hatter - Radical to the Bone > > > > > > > > > > > > >from a message by col sanders about Re: OT Military: > > > > No, I just don't find very many offenses worthy of execution. > > > > > > Cherokee wrote: > > > > > > >So violating the law is ok as long as it results in something > > > >productive? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- FEddy 1.4.03/modPHX * Origin: http://www.twgs.org -- THE Trade Wars web forum! (1:229/522.0) .