Subj : Re: [twgsdotorg]
To   : All
From : <<Doctor Who>>
Date : Tue Jan 14 2003 11:09 am

I have seen it happen alot ( I Have never received a DWI or anything of that
nature ) but I have happy given my speeding ticket to someone and had it
just "removed" .. That was a State of Louisiana Speeding ticket so I know
that it happens in at least 1/50th of the states ;) .. I have heard stories
of the police really pinning things on people just because they dont like
them .. or even worse .. because they were asked to find something against
the person .. I am sure that it goes on through every level of government
and probably doesn't cease until there are no more levels to go through ..
Would it include murder .. Yea .. Speedy Trial with a conviction .. Yea .. I
am not saying the legal system is fully corrupt .. But I have seen alot of
"little" things get bent and it makes the big things seem not so improbable


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cherokee" <twgsdotorg@twgs.org>
To: <jonlewter@netzero.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 3:59 PM
Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: [twgsdotorg]


>
> No, I've never gotten out of a speeding ticket or a DWI.  I've received
> 5 speeding tickets, all of them deserved and paid for, and never been
> charged with a DWI (probably attributable to the fact I don't drink,
> and even were I to impair myself with alcohol, I certainly wouldn't
> drive directly afterwards).
>
> --- "<<Doctor Who>>" <twgsdotorg@twgs.org> wrote:
> >
> > I for one know the police system is corrupt ;)
> > Ever got out of a speeding ticket or a DWI ..
> > Same thing (MUCH SMALLER SCALE) but both happen regulary
> > As for is Death penatly right or wrong ..
> > I think alot of tha depends on Where U were born and how U were
> > raised ;)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Cherokee" <twgsdotorg@twgs.org>
> > To: <jonlewter@netzero.net>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 3:38 PM
> > Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: [twgsdotorg]
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Assuming that everything you say is correct, and for the sake of
> > > argument I will grant that, then the problem is still not the death
> > > penalty.  The problem is a justice system that does not provide
> > > adequate defense for poor defendants, and corrupt police willing to
> > > torture suspects to obtain false confessions. I would be all for
> > any
> > > type of reform that increased the accuracy of our justice system.
> > >
> > > Death penalty opponents always use the scenario of the "innocent
> > death
> > > row inmate" to try to argue against the penalty. I'm sur this
> > happens
> > > occasionally, but I believe it is far less frequent than death
> > penalty
> > > opponents claim.
> > >
> > > But what about the truly guilty?  Do you think those who are truly
> > > guilty of capital crimes should be put to death?  If you answer
> > "no",
> > > then you should explain why the death penalty in general is wrong,
> > > rather than relying on the old "an innocent person could die"
> > argument.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- The Mad Hatter <twgsdotorg@twgs.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Check CNN, MSNBC, Nytimes.com, etc., all of the major news sites
> > > > covered it.
> > > >
> > > > And yes, these people were innocent. Through DNA testing (which
> > was
> > > > not available when many of them were convicted), research, etc.
> > the
> > > > convictions were overturned, and in several cases the real
> > > > perpetrator was convicted.
> > > >
> > > > 8 of the convictions were obtained by confessions that were
> > extracted
> > > > under torture. The officer who obtained those convictions has
> > been
> > > > removed from the police department, however he has not as yet
> > been
> > > > jailed (I was unable to even find reference to him being
> > charged).
> > > >
> > > > The Criminal Justice systems of both Canada and the United States
> > > > have errored with great regularity. A conviction in a court of
> > either
> > > > country does not mean that you are guilty, it often means that
> > you
> > > > could not afford a good lawyer. Harsh but true.
> > > >
> > > > What is really scarey about this is that you stand a better
> > chance of
> > > > getting justice in Canada or the United States (even with all the
> > > > faults of both systems) than you do almost anywhere else.
> > > >
> > > > The Mad Hatter
> > > >
> > > > >From a message by Cherokee about Re: [twgsdotorg]:
> > > > > I would like to know the source of your statistics, in
> > particular
> > > > the
> > > > 23 Illinois men who were "innocent".
> > > >
> > > > These cases are almost NEVER cases of truly innocent men being
> > > > convicted, sentenced to death, and then exonerated. Rather, they
> > are
> > > > usually cases in which some legal technicality allowed the men to
> > go
> > > > free. In every such case, the body of evidence was enough to
> > convince
> > > > a
> > > > jury of reasonable people beyond a reasonable doubt, that the
> > > > defendant
> > > > was guilty.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- The Mad Hatter <twgsdotorg@twgs.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There are three good reasons that the Death Penalty is a dead
> > issue
> > > > > in Canada. The Killer M's, David Millgard, Donald Marshall, and
> > Guy
> > > > > Paul Morin.
> > > > >
> > > > > All three of these gentlemen were convicted of murder, all
> > > > > exonerated.
> > > > >
> > > > > For those who say it couldn't happen in the USA, I suggest you
> > look
> > > > > at Illinois where in the last 10 years 23 inmates who were on
> > death
> > > > > row were later found innocent.
> > > > >
> > > > > The point of this being (for both Sanders and Cherokee who seem
> > > > > unable to find it) is that government is best kept starved and
> > > > > inoffensive, so that it cannot interfere with the lives of the
> > > > > citizens. All governments should be kept this way - consider
> > Saddam
> > > > > Hussein if his government was defanged. He'd end up looking
> > like
> > > > the
> > > > > Stay-Pufft Marshmellow Man.
> > > > >
> > > > > Government is not he solution to the problem - it is the
> > problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > The only good politician is a dead one (they don't raise
> > taxes).
> > > > >
> > > > > The best government is the least government, and the least
> > > > government
> > > > > is no government at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > Taxation is theft.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why is the U.S. Government so hard on the Mafia? They don't
> > like
> > > > > competition.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The Mad Hatter - Radical to the Bone
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >from a message by col sanders about Re: OT Military:
> > > > > > No, I just don't find very many offenses worthy of execution.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cherokee wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >So violating the law is ok as long as it results in something
> > > > > >productive?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>

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